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2020 US Presidential Election

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overthewater

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Didn't the recounts stop in 2000 because it was found to be unconstitutional since Gore only wanted recounts in 4 dem areas? Of course Democrats agreed to the awful system that was used in Florida election process. Why on earth did the like that system in the first place.

The issue being that even if the Supreme Court held that the election was illegitimate, the correct redress would be to order that it be re-run, not to just award victory to one side over the other.

Could they make time to have a new election in early January?
 
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Mrs. Fortescue

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Anyone else not in the least bit shocked that Trump acting like a pathetic little child?

You lost - accept it and graciously move aside.

As for the loons who agree with his nonsense, well there's no hope for you.
 

RichT54

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Anyone else not in the least bit shocked that Trump acting like a pathetic little child?

You lost - accept it and graciously move aside.

As for the loons who agree with his nonsense, well there's no hope for you.

Agreed.

Unfortunately, Trump doesn't do gracious, he only knows gloating, or angry and vindictive.
 

edwin_m

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Didn't the recounts stop in 2000 because it was found to be unconstitutional since Gore only wanted recounts in 4 dem areas? Of course Democrats agreed to the awful system that was used in Florida election process. Why on earth did the like that system in the first place.



Could they make time to have a new election in early January?
I thought the doubtful votes were only potentially enough to swing the result in certain counties, which in turn could have swung the state and the country the other way. Unlike now where they don't seem to be enough to swing the result anywhere.

Did Democrats have the option to agree or object to the system in Florida? The legislature would have been run by Republicans and George W Bush's brother was state Governor.

There's a deadline when the Electoral College has to convene, December 12 I think. That probably makes it too late to re-run the Presidential election in any part of the country, although it would physically be possible to do an election in January having found it necessary in November, as shown by the Georgia run-offs scheduled then.
 

najaB

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So it doesn't strike me as much different to the current situation, except that in 2000 it could and possibly did affect who ultimately won.
If you can't see the difference between seeking to stop a recount of a recount and actively seeking to throw out clear, legally cast ballots because of unsubstantiated claims of fraud then I don't know what else can be said.

In 2000, Bush was saying "Stop the recounting and let the result stand", in 2020 Trump is saying "Throw out the votes of people who didn't vote for me."
Could they make time to have a new election in early January?
Anything is possible, but it's highly unlikely that they could manage a complete new general election. If they were willing to throw enough money at it they could have runoff elections in the contested states but they'd struggle to complete the process in time for the Electoral College vote, so it would either require an act of Congress to allow the college to meet in January or Speaker Pelosi wouid become interim President on Jan 20th.
There's a deadline when the Electoral College has to convene, December 12 I think. That probably makes it too late to re-run the Presidential election in any part of the country, although it would physically be possible to do an election in January having found it necessary in November, as shown by the Georgia run-offs scheduled then.
Agreed. Though that means that neither Biden nor Trump could be sworn in on Jan 20th.
 

nlogax

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Could they make time to have a new election in early January?

Why would anyone entertain the idea of an election rerun? Trump lost. His legal team have lost over 30 legal challenges trying to overturn local outcomes. It's all over bar the final sulking and lack of acceptance and grace from the orange man-child. The GOP and his legal team need to stop enabling him and disassociate themselves from his weird cult.
 

najaB

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It's so unlikely I'm unsure why it's even being theorized.
It's not that long ago that people would have said a US President refusing to concede an election that he lost and casting doubt on the legitimacy of the electoral process with no evidence was so unlikely that there was no reason to discuss it.
 

61653 HTAFC

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Anyone else not in the least bit shocked that Trump acting like a pathetic little child?

You lost - accept it and graciously move aside.

As for the loons who agree with his nonsense, well there's no hope for you.
I was quite amused by his speech a couple of weeks ago, where he couldn't bring himself to use the word "lose" when talking about himself even as a hypothetical.

I think he knows his time is up now, hence him being relatively quiet at the moment. His main agenda seems to be to stoke mistrust among his base and to smear the Democrats as closet communists. However Biden's cabinet choices (the likes of Pete Buttigieg for example) are undermining that particular smear.
 

nlogax

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It's not that long ago that people would have said a US President refusing to concede an election that he lost and casting doubt on the legitimacy of the electoral process with no evidence was so unlikely that there was no reason to discuss it.

I somewhat disagree. Trump's behaviour in the face of what is a sizeable loss was completely predictable. His divisive, destructive and desperate reaction is undeniably horrific to witness but let's face it, as soon as Trump"s GOP candidacy was confirmed all bets were off as to how he'd handle a situation like this.
 

birchesgreen

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He won't go quietly, he is energising his diehard base so, like all extreme politician grifters, he can proceed to rip them off.
 

overthewater

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I somewhat disagree. Trump's behaviour in the face of what is a sizeable loss was completely predictable. His divisive, destructive and desperate reaction is undeniably horrific to witness but let's face it, as soon as Trump"s GOP candidacy was confirmed all bets were off as to how he'd handle a situation like this.

As its been pointed out Biden victory ie the states that got him over 270 is a smaller margin than how trump managed to win last time. If 3-4 states in question had a combined margin of 100K + ( ie double) then maybe trump could have seen the writing on the wall, and acted a bit differently,
 

edwin_m

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If you can't see the difference between seeking to stop a recount of a recount and actively seeking to throw out clear, legally cast ballots because of unsubstantiated claims of fraud then I don't know what else can be said.
The recount in 2000 was trying to establish which of the ballots with hanging, pregnant, etc chads could legally be counted for a particular candidate.

The claims in 2020 are trying to establish which of the ballots arriving after a certain date or with various minor or alleged irregularities can legally be counted for a particular candidate.

Seems pretty similar to me, with the difference that in 2000 there could have been enough of them to make a difference, but not in 2020.
 

najaB

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The recount in 2000 was trying to establish which of the ballots with hanging, pregnant, etc chads could legally be counted for a particular candidate.
Yes, that was the basis of the recount. The suit, however, wasn't concerned with the legitimacy of the ballot or the electoral process but rather sought to end the re-recount process and finalise the already-determined result.
The claims in 2020 are trying to establish which of the ballots arriving after a certain date or with various minor or alleged irregularities can legally be counted for a particular candidate.
That is what one of the many suits has been based on, others have been raised questioning the legitimacy of mail-in voting itself. For example, the Trump campaign has been trying to have all mail-in ballots disqualified in states that sent out ballot forms to all voters, as opposed to states where one had to be requested. (Simply because those votes tend to favour Biden over Trump thanks to Trump telling his base to vote in person).
 

TheGrandWazoo

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As its been pointed out Biden victory ie the states that got him over 270 is a smaller margin than how trump managed to win last time. If 3-4 states in question had a combined margin of 100K + ( ie double) then maybe trump could have seen the writing on the wall, and acted a bit differently,

Coincidentally, the number of electoral votes was 306-232, same as 2016.

However, in terms of the "important states", the margins are:

PA - 2016 - 44,292 2020 - 68,996
MN - 2016 - 10,704 2020 - 155,629
WI - 2016 - 22,748 2020 - 20,565
GA - 2016 - 211,414 2020 - 12,670
NV - 2016 - 91,234 2020 - 10,565

That's 111,967 votes.

Surely if the Democrats were going to steal the election, they'd have made it look a bit more convincing! Oh, and win the Senate too.
 

overthewater

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I was looking at more of just WI, GA, and AZ and NV that would get us to around 54,257, that how Im getting the lower numbers. ( you can get lower if you take away NV and try and figure out how to win back 1st district in Nebraska)

Since you only need 270 to win and a win is a win. Look at the UK 2015 Election if 3000 odd people voted differently Cameron would not have got his majority. Two pages back I explained how the 2012 Obama had broader support across the USA, Now biden and trump has more localised support, drumming up votes in safe places.

If Democrats win the 2 senate seats in GA, it only get them to 50 - 50, let's be fair here, west Virginia Dem is very right wing democrat and he will not vote for some of the ideas coming down from above.
 

SteveM70

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Tradition has it that the outgoing President hand writes a letter to his successor. Can anyone imagine the absolute nonsense that might be in Trump’s?
 

nlogax

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Tradition has it that the outgoing President hand writes a letter to his successor. Can anyone imagine the absolute nonsense that might be in Trump’s?

"Dear Sleepy Joe,

You lost, bigly. I won by a LOT. I'm still president but I'm going to spend the next few years playing golf. See you in 2024!

DJT

PS don't redecorate, the gold toilet cost a lot of money"


(He's not going to leave a note)
 

Busaholic

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If Trump had been successfully impeached (there must be more than a handful of Republicans who rue their reluctance now) would he have gone quietly or still be fighting it? Of course, there's the distinct possibility that his fighting would be taking place from inside a federal place of correction.
 

fgwrich

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Quiet? He's posted at least a dozen tweets in the last 24 hours about the 'fraudulent' election.

I rather think that everyone think's that he's gone quiet as the MSM have thankfully become tired of his daily ranting tirade's, and subsequently stopped reporting on it :lol:

The legal challenge seems to be going well tonight, with Giullani / Trump's Legal Campaign Team now distancing themselves from Sidney Powell, despite both announcing her as part of his legal team and having her at many of their recent press conferences.

"Sidney Powell is practising Law on her own. She is not a member of the Trump Legal Team. She is also not a lawyer for the President in his personal capacity" Trump Legal Campaign Team.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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I was looking at more of just WI, GA, and AZ and NV that would get us to around 54,257, that how Im getting the lower numbers. ( you can get lower if you take away NV and try and figure out how to win back 1st district in Nebraska)

Since you only need 270 to win and a win is a win. Look at the UK 2015 Election if 3000 odd people voted differently Cameron would not have got his majority. Two pages back I explained how the 2012 Obama had broader support across the USA, Now biden and trump has more localised support, drumming up votes in safe places.

If Democrats win the 2 senate seats in GA, it only get them to 50 - 50, let's be fair here, west Virginia Dem is very right wing democrat and he will not vote for some of the ideas coming down from above.

Even with recounts, they're unlikely to get much movement in the figures. As long as they've followed their own state rules, then there is little room for Trump to go.

Did you mean West Virginia? That was a large win for the GOP. My point was that had they wanted to steal an election, they might have done something to ensure they also won the Senate to make things a bit easier for Joe! That they didn't get close to ousting people like Lindsay Graham says something.
 

overthewater

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Even with recounts, they're unlikely to get much movement in the figures. As long as they've followed their own state rules, then there is little room for Trump to go.

Did you mean West Virginia? That was a large win for the GOP. My point was that had they wanted to steal an election, they might have done something to ensure they also won the Senate to make things a bit easier for Joe! That they didn't get close to ousting people like Lindsay Graham says something.

I can't see how recounts will overturn anything and without proof of vote switching he out the door by 20th Jan. Yes I did mean West Virginia, in 2018 A democrat win the senate seat, Joe Manchin ( being re-elected) he is very right wing in the party and he isn't going to make things easy he always started mouthing off about stuff. So biden not going to have very easy time for his first term.

I agree with your point about they didn't make it easy on them self if such a thing happened.
 
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