Life after the end of "lockdown" 2.0

[greyman42]

Some Tories will no doubt vote against it, but not enough to block it. Have any Labour MPs actually voted against restictions at any point?

No Labour MPs have voted against any of the restrictions which gives Johnson carte blanche to do as he wants unless more of his own back benchers turn on him. Well done to the Conservative back benchers who have stood up to him so far.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

If anyone wants to read the 64 page Conservative Party manifesto Covid-19 Winter Plan they can do so here.

Yeah written so they can basically do want they want with the tiers by the looks of it.

The Government will need to maintain some flexibility to weight these indicators against each other as the context demands

Then going on it says just because your area is in a good shape if your neighbours isn't you will get lumped into a higher Tier. Infers there are no hard and fast rules on using metrics we will decide.

On this basis and the PM warning many areas are going to move up a Tier looks like only Isle of Wight stands any chance of being in Tier 1.

 

[ScottGallagher]

Unfortunately My MP is Kier Starmer so zero point writing to him!!!

 

[LowLevel]

Who else is feeling Covid fatigue? I maybe selfish but I want to go back to normal, my mental health has tanked and it wasn’t so strong to begin with, I really feel that the government at this point are deliberately messing with us psychologically.

I’ve been doing regular zoom calls with my friends and my mother and my aunt are my bubble, but I live alone during the week it’s become really difficult to look forward to anything, I’m using Feb/March as a point of when life will return to normal, I will have moved to a new flat by then, nearer to my family.

Sorry for dumping this on people I’m just feeling low right now

Plenty of perfectly sane people feel the same way, there will never be a proper consensus on how to deal with this and people will always feel differently about things.

I was quite happy seeing the same handful of friends and behaving in a small, well behaved local pub.

I have respected the lockdown in that bar going to work, the shop or for a walk I've not actually left home I don't think since it started again, but it does take it's toll. Particularly as all day long I am basically exposed to anyone and everyone coming and going behaving as they please at work (which I don't have a problem with per sé as long as they're being sensible, which some aren't) and then have to go home and sit around doing nothing in particular.

 

[DustyBin]

Looks as though pubs are being targeted yet again. Only worse this time. All to shut in Tier 3 and open in Tier 2 only if they serve meals. A lot will go to the wall this time probably unless we all get writing to our MPs.

I see hotels have to close under 'new' Tier 3. That's going to make planning a holiday rather tough, as who knows what tier a place will be in a few weeks in the future

There is a feeling within hospitality that the industry is not only being scapegoated, but sacrificed. The situation is dire, it's no exageration to say that we could loose hundreds, possibly even thousands of pubs for good over the next few months. I have no idea why they are doing this, it's a sustained assault on the industry. It's like they want it to die. I get why they are willing to allow the airline industry to collapse (climate change), but what's so bad about hospitality?

 

[bramling]

as all day long I am basically exposed to anyone and everyone coming and going behaving as they please at work (which I don't have a problem with per sé as long as they're being sensible, which some aren't) and then have to go home and sit around doing nothing in particular.

It's precisely this which bugs me the most.

Meanwhile it's work which would represent by far my biggest risk of contracting Covid. There's still some people about who seem completely oblivious to the whole thing - if I had a pound for every time I've been on an extremely lightly-loaded train, yet someone chooses to come and sit within 2 metres. I'd far value more focus on this aspect of things than on the political statement that is masks.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

Fire doors can be held open provided the devices which hold them open will automatically release when the alarm goes off. This can be as part part of the alarm system, or standalone battery-powered devices which attach to the door and are 'kicked' down to hold the door open. They can 'hear' the alarm and release the door. If the battery goes flat they won't hold the door open, so there's a failsafe.

Interesting to know! I’ll speak to a fire warden and the health & safety rep.
We already have tube-style gates for entry to the floor, which are linked to the fire alarm system and default to ‘open’ if it is activated, so it should be easy to get the fire doors seen to!

 

[DB]

Interesting to know! I’ll speak to a fire warden and the health & safety rep.
We already have tube-style gates for entry to the floor, which are linked to the fire alarm system and default to ‘open’ if it is activated, so it should be easy to get the fire doors seen to!

These are the ones we use - they are called Dorguards:

Dorgard | Dorgard Fire Door Retainers | Safe Fire Direct | Safe Fire Direct

Dorgard Fire Door Retainers - Dorgard is the easy, safe and legal solution to holding fire doors open, while automatically closing on the sound of an alarm. Shop our range of Dorgard Fire Door Retainers. The new generation Dorgard is available in a range of colours. Safe Fire Direct - UK Leading...

www.safefiredirect.co.uk

They are pretty reliable - rarely go wrong or break, and the batteries last a long time.

 

[DJH1971]

I am due to go to London on 18th December from Manchester Piccadilly (0715 MAN-EUS and 1540 EUS-MAN return) and worried what this will mean for my booking. I was due to go this Friday (27th November) but couldn't go obviously, but got a refund. It seems to appear that telling people to avoid non essential travel to and from a Tier 3 area is advisory and not law like the last 3 Tier system. Should I be OK?

 

[bengley]

I am due to go to London on 18th December from Manchester Piccadilly (0715 MAN-EUS and 1540 EUS-MAN return) and worried what this will mean for my booking. I was due to go this Friday (27th November) but couldn't go obviously, but got a refund. It seems to appear that telling people to avoid non essential travel to and from a Tier 3 area is advisory and not law like the last 3 Tier system. Should I be OK?

What are you worried about? Just go.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

Who else is feeling Covid fatigue? I maybe selfish but I want to go back to normal, my mental health has tanked and it wasn’t so strong to begin with, I really feel that the government at this point are deliberately messing with us psychologically.

I’ve been doing regular zoom calls with my friends and my mother and my aunt are my bubble, but I live alone during the week it’s become really difficult to look forward to anything, I’m using Feb/March as a point of when life will return to normal, I will have moved to a new flat by then, nearer to my family.

Sorry for dumping this on people I’m just feeling low right now

You are not alone in suffering covid fatigue. I went to work on overtime yesterday solely because I couldn’t face another dreary winter Sunday, with none of the places I like to go for leisure actually open. With swimming pools closed, cinemas closed, dreary weather and short daylight hours, the unhealthy temptation to look at mainstream media and make myself more depressed was a worry. Much better to have some social interaction and make a bit of extra money towards a holiday that may still be years away...

 

[DJH1971]

What are you worried about? Just go.

When I picked up the tickets for the (now aborted) trip on 27th November over a month ago, I was advised by some woman working for Avanti saying 'It depends whether we go into Tier 3 and then you won't be able to travel as it will be essential travel only. You will also be questioned by the British Transport Police even if you were travelling for work purposes and would need to give details of your manager and who you were going to see'.

Do correct me if I am wrong, but there appears to be no change from the previous Tier 3 regarding non essential travel as it still appears to be advisory and not the law. Just need some clarification.

 

[_toommm_]

When I picked up the tickets for the (now aborted) trip on 27th November over a month ago, I was advised by some woman working for Avanti saying 'It depends whether we go into Tier 3 and then you won't be able to travel as it will be essential travel only. You will also be questioned by the British Transport Police even if you were travelling for work purposes and would need to give details of your manager and who you were going to see'.

Do correct me if I am wrong, but there appears to be no change from the previous Tier 3 regarding non essential travel as it still appears to be advisory and not the law. Just need some clarification.

I’ve experienced zero questioning travelling in lockdown for work from Leeds to (essentially) Crewe, which is a good few hours due to poor connections. I doubt you’ll be questioned.

 

[ChrisC]

I see hotels have to close under 'new' Tier 3. That's going to make planning a holiday rather tough, as who knows what tier a place will be in a few weeks in the future

I’ve had 3 short breaks in hotels since they were permitted to reopen in July. All have been relatively small hotels with no more than 30 rooms and they have been in rural areas in North Yorkshire, County Durham and Oxfordshire. All have been very quiet with only a handful of guests in on some midweek nights and they have been running with reduced staff levels and limited menus. They can’t have been making much money with so few guests and 2 lockdowns involving complete closure.

They have taken all the necessary measures to make them as safe as possible during this pandemic and I felt completely safe staying there. Lots of money, time and effort has gone into making hotels as safe as possible. I think that small country hotels and quiet village pubs, even in Tier 3 areas, are at a very low risk of spreading the virus and are completely different to busy city centre bars and pubs on a Friday and Saturday night. Unfortunately they will all be treated in the same way and many will not survive this winter.

 

[bengley]

When I picked up the tickets for the (now aborted) trip on 27th November over a month ago, I was advised by some woman working for Avanti saying 'It depends whether we go into Tier 3 and then you won't be able to travel as it will be essential travel only. You will also be questioned by the British Transport Police even if you were travelling for work purposes and would need to give details of your manager and who you were going to see'.

Do correct me if I am wrong, but there appears to be no change from the previous Tier 3 regarding non essential travel as it still appears to be advisory and not the law. Just need some clarification.

I live about 7 miles from you and I've been travelling daily, all over the country, for work and other purposes since the beginning of the year, by public transport and by motor vehicle.

I have never been questioned.

Honestly, just go out and do what you want to do, use your common sense and you'll not only be fine but you'll also feel greatly relieved you did it.

 

[DJH1971]

I live about 7 miles from you and I've been travelling daily, all over the country, for work and other purposes since the beginning of the year, by public transport and by motor vehicle.

I have never been questioned.

Honestly, just go out and do what you want to do, use your common sense and you'll not only be fine but you'll also feel greatly relieved you did it.

Thanks

Is it just me, or does there appear to be no change compared to the previous Tier 3 regarding non-essential travel?

Just this bad feeling inside me after being advised and warned at Manchester Piccadilly.

 

[bengley]

It wasn't illegal to travel for any reason when in tier 3.

I believe that is not the case before December 2nd and you could technically be given a fixed penalty notice. But I wouldn't let that stop me, it's essential for my mental health that I go out and do things which might not necessarily be permitted.

 

[bramling]

It wasn't illegal to travel for any reason when in tier 3.

I believe that is not the case before December 2nd and you could technically be given a fixed penalty notice. But I wouldn't let that stop me, it's essential for my mental health that I go out and do things which might not necessarily be permitted.

Has anyone actually been given a FPN for breaching travel restrictions, apart from perhaps a few visitors to Snowdonia?

 

[bengley]

Has anyone actually been given a FPN for breaching travel restrictions, apart from perhaps a few visitors to Snowdonia?

Yeah, I think a couple of people were given one for sitting on Brighton beach and eating Fish & Chips back in April

 

[DB]

It wasn't illegal to travel for any reason when in tier 3.

I believe that is not the case before December 2nd and you could technically be given a fixed penalty notice. But I wouldn't let that stop me, it's essential for my mental health that I go out and do things which might not necessarily be permitted.

On what grounds? So far as I am aware there is nothing in the current legislation which specifically prohibits any travel.

 

[bengley]

On what grounds? So far as I am aware there is nothing in the current legislation which specifically prohibits any travel.

I don't know what the legislation says to be fair, but I'm sure it's not currently permitted to be away from home unless it's for one of a list of government specified reasons.

 

[DB]

I don't know what the legislation says to be fair, but I'm sure it's not currently permitted to be away from home unless it's for one of a list of government specified reasons.

It's not permitted to stay overnight other than for work purposes, but there is no limit on travel - you can simply say that you are travelling for exercise, which is permitted and has nothing about distance.

 

[bengley]

It's not permitted to stay overnight other than for work purposes, but there is no limit on travel - you can simply say that you are travelling for exercise, which is permitted and has nothing about distance.

You can say you are travelling for exercise, sure. But if you're actually travelling to go and see your mates in the park to drink beer, you may struggle to claim that's a reasonable excuse

 

[DB]

You can say you are travelling for exercise, sure. But if you're actually travelling to go and see your mates in the park to drink beer, you may struggle to claim that's a reasonable excuse

And how are they going to prove what you are intending to do?

 

[_toommm_]

Thanks

Is it just me, or does there appear to be no change compared to the previous Tier 3 regarding non-essential travel?

Just this bad feeling inside me after being advised and warned at Manchester Piccadilly.

Don’t worry about Manchester, and I say from personal experience. The police are patrolling but it’s for safety. I haven’t been asked about a mask, nor my intentions, nor my eligibility to travel.

 

[bengley]

And how are they going to prove what you are intending to do?

They can't but that doesn't make it legal.

I'm supportive of anyone who wishes to use a train for whatever reason so believe me when I say that the legality of it whether enforceable or not doesn't bother me.

 

[Kite159]

I guess it's just a waiting game to see which tiers areas are placed into, considering hotels will be closed in tier 3.

 

[DB]

They can't but that doesn't make it legal.

I'm supportive of anyone who wishes to use a train for whatever reason so believe me when I say that the legality of it whether enforceable or not doesn't bother me.

The law has no specifc restrictions on travelling, therefore it is legal to do so.

 

[bengley]

The law has no specifc restrictions on travelling, therefore it is legal to do so.

If you're travelling and it's not for one of the reasons listed on the below webpage:

The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (England) (No. 4) Regulations 2020

These Regulations impose restrictions on the occasions on which a person can leave or be outside of the place where they are living and on gatherings. They also require the closure of a number of businesses, and impose restrictions on businesses.

www.legislation.gov.uk

Then it's not legal to be travelling.

It's not necessary to specifically make 'travel' illegal because simply not being at home without reasonable excuse covers the offence.


Again - I don't agree with the regulations

 

[DB]

If you're travelling and it's not for one of the reasons listed on the below webpage:

The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (England) (No. 4) Regulations 2020

These Regulations impose restrictions on the occasions on which a person can leave or be outside of the place where they are living and on gatherings. They also require the closure of a number of businesses, and impose restrictions on businesses.

www.legislation.gov.uk

Then it's not legal to be travelling.

It's not necessary to specifically make 'travel' illegal because simply not being at home without reasonable excuse covers the offence.


Again - I don't agree with the regulations

(d)to visit a public outdoor place for the purposes of open air recreation

Is a catch-all which can easily be applied to any situation - they cannot prove that this isn't a person's intention.

It's quite clear that most people are ignoring it all - despite half the shops being closed, the local town centre is nearly as busy as normal, and there is no attempt at any enforcement - unsurprisingly, as many aspects of this law are unenforceable.