Covid19 mitigation measures and their impacts on the entertainment / hospitality sectors

[Arglwydd Golau]

My daughter used to work in the entertainment sector, festivals, stage setting etc....if I may I'll copy and paste a statement from her ex that I've seen on social media that does give some insight into the current difficulties faced by many in this sector....


'I'm just going to put it in simple terms for people that don't take the demise of the live events industry seriously:
Between 600,000 and 1,000,000 people work in the sector - by comparison the Coal industry employed less than 300,000 when the 84-85 strikes were happening.
But that's not just a bunch of people out of work for a few months. Many will be retraining or facing destitution as the support comes to an end. Those will be unlikely to return to precarious work when everything starts up.
All the companies that are folding? Their equipment is being sold off overseas (there are no buyers here). That means a severe lack of rigging, staging, speakers, lights, fencing, portaloos... everything modern that makes medium to large events possible. What's left will take experienced technicians to make work safely and smoothly - technicians that might now be working in construction or telecoms.
What about the artists? Not the A-listers but everyone else? Orchestras, theatre casts, musicians - they're all in this mess too. Careers entire lives have been seriously dedicated to, redefining the term 'full-time-job'. It will be damn near impossible to produce new shows and write new music whilst working 40+hrs elsewhere every week. And for those in destitution, the stress and despair will eat away at.
Then there's the ancillary jobs - those that might not even be counted as part of the crew but are also vital to the running of the industry: bar staff, ushers, security, vendors, advertisers... Many more people in precarious jobs that have no hope in returning.
And with the criminalisation of trespass on the horizon - far scarier than the current restrictions on gatherings - alleviating this lack of culture by putting on our own events in abandoned spaces will become far less viable.
Just when some semblance of normality is starting to return and folks are desperate for some entertainment: then the huge hole in this society will be noticed with severe knock-on effects to our own subcultures.
I worked backstage - indeed on the rare occasions I was in the venue at all whilst a show was running the game was to be invisible. For people to enjoy the magic of the show without seeing the cogs and wheels - well that's always been the aim of showbiz.
Whether it's the list of thankyous in the sleevenotes of your favourite album, the 'cast and crew' list in the pantomime programme or entire fields full of crew camping, the amount of people involved in bringing art to the public is phenomenal compared to the spectator's experience.
I'm not here to ask you to do anything except understand how dire this situation really is.
Next week I will be helping raise awareness of this with other industry folks. I've had no government support during the crisis - no furlough nor self-employed income support. I don't expect that to change for me one bit, but I will stand with crew from throughout the industry in the hope that this government can once again be persuaded to perform a U-turn. That's called solidarity, and we need a damn sight more of it if it's going to succeed.
It's not just about jobs, it's about our culture.
Look out for the red lights'

 

[Bletchleyite]

Most of the massive naff dumps like we had in the 90s have disappeared, but clubbing as such is very much not gone. With the 10pm curfew the entire night-time economy including all the smaller clubs and bars with dancefloors are effectively done-for, possibly even more so because a lot of them round here had just invested a lot in getting furniture and reopening as purely seated venues.

Or will we just see people going out a bit earlier on weekends? (Weeknights were quiet or students anyway).

no furlough nor self-employed income support

I wonder was he paying himself through dividends? If so, I suspect quite a lot of people are now going to be rethinking this tax dodge and returning to paying themselves a salary from the company. Pay your tax in good times and the Government will support you in bad, has to be the message from this.

FWIW I have a self employed friend who paid himself through dividends and accepts that he doesn't deserve support because he was basically (legally) dodging tax by doing so rather than paying himself a salary.

Though I agree the entertainments industry basically needs bailing out.

 

[RuralRambler]

Or will we just see people going out a bit earlier on weekends? (Weeknights were quiet or students anyway).



I wonder was he paying himself through dividends? If so, I suspect quite a lot of people are now going to be rethinking this tax dodge and returning to paying themselves a salary from the company. Pay your tax in good times and the Government will support you in bad, has to be the message from this.

FWIW I have a self employed friend who paid himself through dividends and accepts that he doesn't deserve support because he was basically (legally) dodging tax by doing so rather than paying himself a salary.

Though I agree the entertainments industry basically needs bailing out.

In their shoes, would you have paid an extra 25% NIC to pay yourself in wages instead of dividends?? Previous Govt's caused the "tax dodge" (which it is't) by not dealing with the NIC anomaly which is the s/e person having to pay it twice, once as employee NIC and once as employer NIC. That is the crux of the matter.

But the low wage/high dividend route isn't the only reason why 3 million self employed didn't receive support. There are several reasons which affect different people, such as those paying much higher wages but only once per year who weren't eligible because they weren't paid in February. Also, for the first few months, company directors couldn't work at all to claim furlough which wasn't the rule for sole traders.

 

[DustyBin]

I suspect it's probably uniquely counterproductive in London, and much less so in other, mostly smaller places where most people don't use public transport.

There have been enough "masses on the streets" situations that we can pretty much know that doesn't really spread it.

I did wonder if something slightly different would work better - no alcohol sales from any venue between 2130 and 0500, and a limit on the number of alcoholic drinks served for consumption on the premises at once to one per person at the table at any one time, or maybe two to take account of the one they haven't yet finished. That way people would drift away as they finished up. After all, the basis behind it is to stop people getting as drunk (as then they don't distance), and that would achieve it just as well, because if they have a coffee that's not going to get them drunk.

Thinking back, I recall in the days of clubs only having 2am licences at least one place in Manchester that stayed open until 5am but only served soft drinks and coffees after 2.

I dont think any of the restrictions are necessary to be honest but why over complicate things by limiting how many drinks can be ordered and only serving alcohol between certain hours? It's just more nanny-state meddling in peoples enjoyment and the vast, vast majority of licensed premises wouldn't stay open to serve soft drinks only as the staffing costs make it unviable.

 

[WelshBluebird]

In terms of the self employed, wasn't it quite specific who it would help and how much it would pay? I remember it specifically not doing much for people who are more recently self employed, unless they made changes to it after the initial introduction.

 

[DustyBin]

Or will we just see people going out a bit earlier on weekends? (Weeknights were quiet or students anyway).

I imagine people may well go out earlier on weekends. I don't agree with you about weeknights though. Many community pubs, and even more so members clubs (e.g. working mens clubs) are busy late on during the week with older people and people who finish work in the evening and go home to get changed etc. before going back out. Such places will be badly affected by the 10pm curfew.

 

[Bletchleyite]

In their shoes, would you have paid an extra 25% NIC to pay yourself in wages instead of dividends??

I might or might not. But if I'd avoided tax, I wouldn't see it as unreasonable, as he did, that I was also opting out of assistance.

Previous Govt's caused the "tax dodge" (which it is't) by not dealing with the NIC anomaly which is the s/e person having to pay it twice, once as employee NIC and once as employer NIC. That is the crux of the matter.

That's only on a level playing field to someone employed by a company. OK, it doesn't come off their salary, but it is still being paid. There is no reason a self-employed person should receive an advantage in that way.

I'd be cool with small business grants etc, but not with people simply being able to avoid tax in this manner without consequence. If you invest in a company, the value of your investment may rise or fall, including fall to £0. If you pay yourself in this way from a limited company, that's what you're doing.

There is a problem with regard to "self employed" people working for couriers etc, but they're not really self-employed (they might well be close to failing the IR35 tests now anyway) and the law needs fixing to stop them being forced to work in this way and instead make them zero-hours (or minimum hours plus overtime) contracted employees.

But the low wage/high dividend route isn't the only reason why 3 million self employed didn't receive support. There are several reasons which affect different people, such as those paying much higher wages but only once per year who weren't eligible because they weren't paid in February. Also, for the first few months, company directors couldn't work at all to claim furlough which wasn't the rule for sole traders.

Yes, true, there are/were other gaps.

In terms of the self employed, wasn't it quite specific who it would help and how much it would pay? I remember it specifically not doing much for people who are more recently self employed, unless they made changes to it after the initial introduction.

There were a few gaps, including people who had just changed job - that one was particularly unfair.

 

[robbeech]

Personally, and this maybe a little selfish, I am more worried about gig venues. Sure, we may have socially distanced / outdoors gigs happening in some parts of the country, but it will be a long time until I can be crammed liked a sardine with a few hundred other people in a small sweaty room and enjoy a mosh pit. And by that point many of those places may well have gone under.

They're just not viable on any normal level and won't be for several months. a 25,000 outdoor event, something common for myself in years gone by is now limited to a few hundred people. You can't justify the production costs, you can't justify the artists costs, it doesn't help the people in the industry it just helps the people who want to go out and watch the shows as many people working at these events are doing it for nothing because there is no budget.

I might or might not. But if I'd avoided tax, I wouldn't see it as unreasonable, as he did, that I was also opting out of assistance.

I agree, I don't pay myself a wage, or dividends, or anything from the Ltd company. It all gets invested so i pay tax on all of it. I then take my contract / freelance work to me as a sole trader directly. So i pay tax on all of that. The result is I couldn't furlough myself as my wage was £0, and i don't qualify for SEISS as i'm over the threshold. So i haven't benefitted from it before, and i don't now, but i'm ok with that, there are people that need it more than me.

Sadly the opinion many hold about the self employed is it's an easy way to not pay as much tax as you should, and i must say, you can understand why people form that opinion. How many plumbers and mechanics will knock the VAT off for cash? it gives the genuine ones a bad name.

The problem is, from a self employed point of view, those that have contributed the most in the past have received the least through this and will no doubt be forced to contribute to most to repay it in the years to come. This won't wash with many people so the avoidance may even increase.

 

[RuralRambler]

That's only on a level playing field to someone employed by a company. OK, it doesn't come off their salary, but it is still being paid. There is no reason a self-employed person should receive an advantage in that way.

But a self employed sole trader or partner wouldn't pay double NIC. That's why it's unfair to expect a limited company director (potentially doing exactly the same work) to pay two lots of NIC totalling 25% when a sole trader or partner would only pay 9%. No one pays "employers" NIC if the self employed person is a sole trader or partner. Yet, you seem to think it's "fair" to expect a limited company director s/e person to pay NIC twice, on the same income??

 

[Howardh]

Wonder if we will lose the late trains that have just been re-introduced as a resuklt of the 10pm curfew? I would imagine most out at that time are visiting the restaurants and bars.

 

[greyman42]

I am aware of a pub / restaurant (part of a large chain) local to me that refused entry to a couple in their mid 50's earlier this week, because neither possessed a smart phone capable of scanning the QR code for test and trace.

They offered to provide all required contact details on paper (as had been the policy of said restaurant until recently) but this offer was declined on the basis that they "might contaminate the paper with Covid whilst writing on it".

This hospitality venue clearly cares very little about upsetting some of the few customers it still has and the effect on its business, it seems.

Could you say which chain this is so that i can avoid it.

 

[jumble]

Any forum members work within, for or with the entertainment/hospitality sectors able to say how you are affected by the current measures?

Do you see light at the end of the tunnel?

Is it affecting you personally?

I do worry about the effects of these measures on the livelihoods and mental health of people who work in sectors that are severely impacted by the measures that are currently in place.

( @robbeech @Randomer anyone else? )

I dont work in hospitality so this is a bit OT however
Today I went to a pub chain for lunch
The staff put us closer than I would have liked to another table where a group of 3 and a group of 4 who were clearly all together.
The rest of the pub was empty and we were all near the kitchen so I guess this was their overiding consideration
The staff wore masks but kept pulling them down and one was coughing merrily with the mask off at one stage
They insisted in customers paying at the bar
What absolute nonsense this whole thing is as the pub might just as well have not bothered
(I am personally not concerned but had I been a vulnerable person you would not have seen me for dust)

 

[yorksrob]

I suspect it's probably uniquely counterproductive in London, and much less so in other, mostly smaller places where most people don't use public transport.

There have been enough "masses on the streets" situations that we can pretty much know that doesn't really spread it.


I did wonder if something slightly different would work better - no alcohol sales from any venue between 2130 and 0500, and a limit on the number of alcoholic drinks served for consumption on the premises at once to one per person at the table at any one time, or maybe two to take account of the one they haven't yet finished. That way people would drift away as they finished up. After all, the basis behind it is to stop people getting as drunk (as then they don't distance), and that would achieve it just as well, because if they have a coffee that's not going to get them drunk.

Thinking back, I recall in the days of clubs only having 2am licences at least one place in Manchester that stayed open until 5am but only served soft drinks and coffees after 2.

No, 21:30 is too early.

 

[Class 33]

A couple of months ago Andrew Lloyd Webber said that if theatres aren't able to reopen fully without social distancing by November, then the theatre industry is going to completely collapse. Well sadly social distancing isn't going to be scrapped by November now. So hope the theatre industry doesn't completely collapse. I wonder if he was exaggerating a little with that statement, or whether this really will be the case.

 

[Randomer]

I wonder if he was exaggerating a little with that statement, or whether this really will be the case.

Effectively for the commercial side of the Theatre industry (West End, touring musicals or commercial plays) I would say that this is pretty much spot on. I know of no new shows that are in production currently that have any hope of turning a profit or even breaking even. The knock on effect of this is that receiving venues, theatres that put on shows produced by others, have huge gaps in schedule going well into next year. It just isn't sustainable to keep venues open if they are dark for 3 out of 4 weeks a month. If they close them the subsidised parts of the industry; opera and a lot of touring dance productions, are then dead in the water as they have nowhere to tour shows to.

Even if the relatively small number of government subsidised companies and venues (both from Arts Council or devolved bodies as well as local councils) survive until March which is the criteria for extra funding they cannot operate in isolation if the majority of the supporting infrastructure for them has disappeared.

Pantomime is also often the biggest single revenue generator in terms of regional theatres, if we don't reopen fully by November then a lot of venues are not going to have the working capital to start producing one for this year. At which point it will be pretty much game over for some of them. The Lottery funded efforts to buy up seats empty for social distancing are a great measure but cover literally a handful of venues.

To me it is a spiral that is bringing me greater and greater concern as time goes on. We are already seeing redundancies in most receiving or producing venues and that is only going to escalate as funding reserves run down with no firm date to plan towards reopening venues fully.

Short answer, yes I think he might be right and it concerns me greatly.

Edit: Missed a very vital "not" in the 3rd paragraph.

 

[Class 33]

Effectively for the commercial side of the Theatre industry (West End, touring musicals or commercial plays) I would say that this is pretty much spot on. I know of no new shows that are in production currently that have any hope of turning a profit or even breaking even. The knock on effect of this is that receiving venues, theatres that put on shows produced by others, have huge gaps in schedule going well into next year. It just isn't sustainable to keep venues open if they are dark for 3 out of 4 weeks a month. If they close them the subsidised parts of the industry; opera and a lot of touring dance productions, are then dead in the water as they have nowhere to tour shows to.

Even if the relatively small number of government subsidised companies and venues (both from Arts Council or devolved bodies as well as local councils) survive until March which is the criteria for extra funding they cannot operate in isolation if the majority of the supporting infrastructure for them has disappeared.

Pantomime is also often the biggest single revenue generator in terms of regional theatres, if we don't reopen fully by November then a lot of venues are not going to have the working capital to start producing one for this year. At which point it will be pretty much game over for some of them. The Lottery funded efforts to buy up seats empty for social distancing are a great measure but cover literally a handful of venues.

To me it is a spiral that is bringing me greater and greater concern as time goes on. We are already seeing redundancies in most receiving or producing venues and that is only going to escalate as funding reserves run down with no firm date to plan towards reopening venues fully.

Short answer, yes I think he might be right and it concerns me greatly.

Edit: Missed a very vital "not" in the 3rd paragraph.

Thanks for that info. Am not a regular theatre goer myself. But it will be very sad if many many theatres in this country end up closing permanently as a result of this pandemic and all these seemingly never-ending restrictions.

 

[jumble]

I started a lengthy debate in another thread about pubs sending people away like naughty children who came without masks instead of handing a 15 p one out free of charge
I had a response from the area manager stating that the chain were given plenty of masks which should have been given out and he was pretty horrified.
However I had a chat with a Sizzling Pub where the pub was almost empty and the manager was adamant that if customers are too stupid to bring a mask they should not be served

I wonder how long it will be for it to sink in to these members of staff and/or their management that the days of taking the entitled view that there is always another customer are rapidly coming to an end ( if it has not already happened) and that they are literally killing their own jobs.
( Probably never as they will blame Covid for the loss of the pub and the job)

 

[bramling]

I started a lengthy debate in another thread about pubs sending people away like naughty children who came without masks instead of handing a 15 p one out free of charge
I had a response from the area manager stating that the chain were given plenty of masks which should have been given out and he was pretty horrified.
However I had a chat with a Sizzling Pub where the pub was almost empty and the manager was adamant that if customers are too stupid to bring a mask they should not be served

I wonder how long it will be for it to sink in to these members of staff and/or their management that the days of taking the entitled view that there is always another customer are rapidly coming to an end ( if it has not already happened) and that they are literally killing their own jobs.
( Probably never as they will blame Covid for the loss of the pub and the job)

Places like that need to be doing all they can to keep people happy, especially as the sector has relied very heavily on taxpayer support.

 

[Class 33]

Andrew Lloyd Webber has confirmed all his theatres will be reopening from 30th April. He previously said that if theatres were not able to reopen without social distancing by November, then the entire theatre industry will collapse. Glad his prediction turned out not to be true!

COVID-19: Lloyd Webber announces theatre reopening dates after coronavirus shutdown

The composer says he is "optimistic" audiences will come out in "droves" once the vaccine is rolled out.

news.sky.com

COVID-19: Lloyd Webber announces theatre reopening dates after coronavirus shutdown​

The composer says he is "optimistic" audiences will come out in "droves" once the vaccine is rolled out.

Andrew Lloyd Webber has announced dates for the reopening of his major theatres.

The composer said he was "hugely optimistic" about the return of audiences after the COVID-19 vaccine rollout, as he revealed most of his theatres would be open again by early next summer - more than a year since they were closed due to the pandemic.

He said previews of the new musical Cinderella would begin on 30 April at the Gillian Lynne Theatre in London's West End.

The Phantom Of The Opera will return to the West End at Her Majesty's Theatre in June 2021, while a musical adaptation of the Disney film Frozen will begin at the recently refurbished Theatre Royal Drury Lane in the spring.

The musical version of Back to the Future will be on offer at the Adelphi Theatre next June.

Matilda returns to the Cambridge Theatre in Covent Garden late spring - with a date yet to be confirmed.

The Other Place, a smaller theatre part of Lord Lloyd-Webber's LW Theatres group, has said it will reopen at the end of June next year.

Lord Lloyd-Webber said: "I have been working ceaselessly throughout the year to get theatre back and these are the first dates that I feel confident that we will be able to reopen to full capacity.

"Having been on the Oxford COVID vaccine trial myself, I am hugely optimistic that once the vaccine rolls out, audiences will return to theatre in droves.

"My theatres will be ready for them. I am raring to go."

Hospitality and entertainment sectors have been significantly impacted during the COVID-19 pandemic - with many businesses being forced to close during the national and local lockdowns.

In all Tier 3 areas, entertainment places will remain closed.

In Tier 2 - including some places in London - venues will continue to operate at a reduced capacity.

The Theatres Trust previously stated that it would be difficult for many theatres to reopen with social distancing measures.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

Andrew Lloyd Webber has confirmed all his theatres will be reopening from 30th April. He previously said that if theatres were not able to reopen without social distancing by November, then the entire theatre industry will collapse. Glad his prediction turned out not to be true!

COVID-19: Lloyd Webber announces theatre reopening dates after coronavirus shutdown

The composer says he is "optimistic" audiences will come out in "droves" once the vaccine is rolled out.

news.sky.com

Lord Lloyd-Webber said: "I have been working ceaselessly throughout the year to get theatre back and these are the first dates that I feel confident that we will be able to reopen to full capacity.

Whilst I admire his optimism, I think even if social distancing rules are not still in place, if bookmakers were offering odds on masks still being mandatory in June 2021, I’d place the bet now. I hope to god I am wrong, though, because I want a return to seeing smiles and complete faces everywhere. If the mask mandate is still in force, that is going to put off a lot of people, in the same way that wearing a mask for 4h+ will make a train journey from London to Scotland unattractive to some

 

[DB]

Whilst I admire his optimism, I think even if social distancing rules are not still in place, if bookmakers were offering odds on masks still being mandatory in June 2021, I’d place the bet now. I hope to god I am wrong, though, because I want a return to seeing smiles and complete faces everywhere. If the mask mandate is still in force, that is going to put off a lot of people, in the same way that wearing a mask for 4h+ will make a train journey from London to Scotland unattractive to some

Doesn't the mask mandate expire in a couple of months? I think the government would have trouble renewing it beyond the expiry of all the other coronavirus legislation in April.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

Doesn't the mask mandate expire in a couple of months? I think the government would have trouble renewing it beyond the expiry of all the other coronavirus legislation in April.

Be good if it does

Although if the government do put a renewal of the coronavirus legislation before parliament, perhaps Starmer will not ‘sit in the stands’ on this one but get on the pitch and make some crunching tackles...

 

[Richard Scott]

Be good if it does

Although if the government do put a renewal of the coronavirus legislation before parliament, perhaps Starmer will not ‘sit in the stands’ on this one but get on the pitch and make some crunching tackles...

I think there's more chance of me winning the lottery than that happening. Have no faith in Starmer at all to do anything useful.

 

[MikeWM]

Doesn't the mask mandate expire in a couple of months? I think the government would have trouble renewing it beyond the expiry of all the other coronavirus legislation in April.

Unfortunately not. Mid-June (public transport) and late July (everywhere else).

 

[DB]

Unfortunately not. Mid-June (public transport) and late July (everywhere else).

Wasn't there at least a six-month review date? Given the increasing opposition from backbenchers that could prove difficult for Johnson.

 

[MikeWM]

Wasn't there at least a six-month review date? Given the increasing opposition from backbenchers that could prove difficult for Johnson.

Yes, but I suspect it will look remarkably like the three-weekly 'reviews' of the original lockdown regs. If they bother mentioning it at all, it will be something along the lines of 'yes, that's working, we'll carry on with it.' I don't believe there was anything written for those 'reviews', and there certainly wasn't a vote of any sort.

 

[DB]

Yes, but I suspect it will look remarkably like the three-weekly 'reviews' of the original lockdown regs. If they bother mentioning it at all, it will be something along the lines of 'yes, that's working, we'll carry on with it.' I don't believe there was anything written for those 'reviews', and there certainly wasn't a vote of any sort.

True - but there's more chance now of backbenchers pushing for something more meaninful.

 

[greyman42]

Unfortunately not. Mid-June (public transport) and late July (everywhere else).

If the general public decide mask wearing is finished then it will be finished.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

If the general public decide mask wearing is finished then it will be finished.

Sadly, compliance seems to be as high as ever in my area’s shopping district.
I even overheard a mid-20s man proudly telling another older man in the queue in WH Smith’s how he finds them uncomfortable ‘but I wear it to protect others’. Oh yes, full-on brainwashing and virtue-signalling, live, in a retail outlet near you

 

[DB]

Sadly, compliance seems to be as high as ever in my area’s shopping district.
I even overheard a mid-20s man proudly telling another older man in the queue in WH Smith’s how he finds them uncomfortable ‘but I wear it to protect others’. Oh yes, full-on brainwashing and virtue-signalling, live, in a retail outlet near you

Similar round here - seeing anyone else without a mask in Tesco or M&S is very much the exception.

On trains the compliance is far less, with a number of people taking them off once they are sitting down.