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HS2 construction updates

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fishwomp

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People in the Chilterns kicked off massively when the M40 was built, even though there were many junctions. It'll all calm down once it's built and operating, and we'll wonder how we every managed without it. Exactly the same as what happened with HS1.

Except they saw benefits - ability to get to the motorway and reduced local town traffic in some cases I expect as the M40 is a huge long bypass, it certainly helped towns like Southam and Banbury. There's zero benefit on HS2 for Chilterns - it flies through non-stop.
 
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HSTEd

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HS2 should have been built entirely in tunnel.

It might have cost more to build, but we wouldn't have ended up in endless trench warfare over ancient woodlands, views or god knows what else.
 

Hadders

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Except they saw benefits - ability to get to the motorway and reduced local town traffic in some cases I expect as the M40 is a huge long bypass, it certainly helped towns like Southam and Banbury. There's zero benefit on HS2 for Chilterns - it flies through non-stop.
You wouldn't have known there were any benefits from the anti M40 protesters. And remember this was pre-social media days. The people in that area of the country have major form when it comes to protesting against development.
 

fishwomp

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You wouldn't have known there were any benefits from the anti M40 protesters. And remember this was pre-social media days. The people in that area of the country have major form when it comes to protesting against development.
.. or the A34 protests at Newbury - Swampy's early TV days.. couldn't imagine what Newbury would be like now without that bypass!..

.. but that's kind of the point - there's no upside here _at all_ for Chiltern folk.
 

yorkie

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HS2 should have been built entirely in tunnel.

It might have cost more to build, but we wouldn't have ended up in endless trench warfare over ancient woodlands, views or god knows what else.
Just a gentle reminder to all that this is a construction updates thread

If anyone wishes to make alternative suggestions for what they think should (or should have) been done, that's what the
Speculative Ideas section is for :)
 

TheHSRailFan

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Any updates or time frames on when the TBMs for the Chiltern Tunnels get delivered and start? HS2 keeps hyping them up but no date since they were supposed to start back in December.
 

hwl

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Any updates or time frames on when the TBMs for the Chiltern Tunnels get delivered and start? HS2 keeps hyping them up but no date since they were supposed to start back in December.
Delivered and assembled.
 

david_g

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Except they saw benefits - ability to get to the motorway and reduced local town traffic in some cases I expect as the M40 is a huge long bypass, it certainly helped towns like Southam and Banbury. There's zero benefit on HS2 for Chilterns - it flies through non-stop.
You have a point re. Banbury but in the case of Southam the M40 opening wasn't the major factor making a difference, the Southam bypass was.

If anyone has seen ?Bletchleyite's comments about road closures caused by East-West Rail construction work we have that round here in spades. The road from Southam to Leamington is closed for nine (I think) months; it is a major route for travel to work/shopping in the area and the diversion route is not good. For HGV's it is even worse because of low bridge on the A423 Coventry road which means they have to divert via Dunchurch. There has been a degree of good fortune in the current closure coinciding with reduced travel during the pandemic.

Even relatively minor works like reconfiguring the crossroads where the Welsh Road crosses the A361 north of Chipping Warden resulted in 2 years of on-off road closures. It's on one of my regular cycling routes and going out that way was route open/route closed bingo; the diversion was an extrremely unpleasant ride on the A361 (aka "the road of death", towards the top of national accident frequency tables) which is a road I normally avoid like the plague.

HS2 have done themselves no favours with local opposition with the disruption caused to local routes (and I speak as someone in favour of HS2).
 

Facing Back

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You have a point re. Banbury but in the case of Southam the M40 opening wasn't the major factor making a difference, the Southam bypass was.

If anyone has seen ?Bletchleyite's comments about road closures caused by East-West Rail construction work we have that round here in spades. The road from Southam to Leamington is closed for nine (I think) months; it is a major route for travel to work/shopping in the area and the diversion route is not good. For HGV's it is even worse because of low bridge on the A423 Coventry road which means they have to divert via Dunchurch. There has been a degree of good fortune in the current closure coinciding with reduced travel during the pandemic.

Even relatively minor works like reconfiguring the crossroads where the Welsh Road crosses the A361 north of Chipping Warden resulted in 2 years of on-off road closures. It's on one of my regular cycling routes and going out that way was route open/route closed bingo; the diversion was an extrremely unpleasant ride on the A361 (aka "the road of death", towards the top of national accident frequency tables) which is a road I normally avoid like the plague.

HS2 have done themselves no favours with local opposition with the disruption caused to local routes (and I speak as someone in favour of HS2).
Hi David_g - I'm curious - are there things that you think HS2 should have done but didn't with regard to disruption of local routes? I would have thought that some disruption was inevitable?
 

david_g

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Hi David_g - I'm curious - are there things that you think HS2 should have done but didn't with regard to disruption of local routes? I would have thought that some disruption was inevitable?

Couldn't agree more that some disruption is/was inevitable and we have to accept that. And I get the argument that a single extended closure can cause less overall disruption to local traffic than a series of shorter closures plus the effect the options have on contruction work. But the duration of some of the road closures seem excessive and there is a feeling locally that HS2 are taking the piss to put it bluntly.

This is an area of high car ownership which perceives little benefit from HS2. I can try and argue that post HS2 we might see more services stopping at Rugby for journeys north or south or that with a change at Birmingham Interchange or Curzon Street it will be possible to be in Leeds. Manchester or Scotland in a much quicker time than is currently possible but it is difficult to win peple over. And don't even try the argument that it benefits commuters from MK to Euston, Stockport to Manchester or even along the Cov corridor into Birmingham etc. because the reply is along the lines of "so we get all the pain and they get all the gain". I've even tried pointing out to the local Cov City fans that they might find it easier to get to Small Heath as more trains will stop at Tile Hill & Adderley Park:)

Another local example which has seen more than one three month long road closure over the last couple of years is the Welsh Road West out of Southam. This is a road I use regularly to go to ....err, Wales oddly enough; the site of the north portal of Long Itchington tunnel is off this road, which is where the tunnel boring machine will be launched from. The only visible result of the closures having a direct impact on the road to date has been the two entrances to the worksite and a mass of tree felling further along where the viaduct will go over the road. Anyone looking at it will think "Three months to do that? Really"

I'm sure I read that the A426 Southam - Leamington road was originally going to have a temporary diversion route built but that plan was ditched in favour of the nine month closure. If that is the case, HS2 haven't done a good job of explaining why this happened and it doesn't play well locally.

Another aspect of HS2 not being seen to minimise the disruption is weekend working: the A361/Welsh Road crossroads I mentioned in my earlier post is on one of my regular cycling routes so if I go that way it will usually be at a weekend. I never saw anyone working there (something I took advantage of on occasion by sneaking through the road closure with the bike). If HS2 want to be seen to be trying to shorten the disruption then not having anyone working for two days out of seven is not a good look. If the weather is decent next weekend I'll take a trip down there and take a couple of photos of the crossroads so people on here can take a look at the location.

And we have barely started yet. For example, from my front windows I can see the worksite at Wormleighton, about five miles away, which has been there about two years now. HS2 crosses the watershed between Thames & Severn here and will be in a shallow cutting with a road bridge over,; there are also some road reroutings involved. It will be a real nuisance if the road in this location is closed both for me (cycling again plus journeys south) and for many others; the track record thus far does not bode well.

What can they do differently? Make best efforts to minimise disruption and be seen to be doing so (weekend working anyone?) Don't take the the easy option (in construction terms) or if they do make a much better job of explaining why option a) is so much better than option b). We're building a new railway for the benefit of the nation/MK/Birmingham/Manchester so you have to suck it up doesn't cut it. As I said in my previous post, I'm in favour of it being built but they are not making it an easy sell round here.
:
 

squizzler

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Perhaps the answer to towns en route feeling alienated by the project is that the barriers round the building site should proclaim “Enabling faster more frequent trains to more places from your station” Or “freeing up capacity on your railway”. The worksite itself is a great place to drill home the message HS2 is not about just blitzing through their community at 200mph for the sake of it.
 

Bletchleyite

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Perhaps the answer to towns en route feeling alienated by the project is that the barriers round the building site should proclaim “Enabling faster more frequent trains to more places from your station” Or “freeing up capacity on your railway”. The worksite itself is a great place to drill home the message HS2 is not about just blitzing through their community at 200mph for the sake of it.

I do wonder what influence a Chiltern Parkway would have had on the view - positive or negative.
 

jfowkes

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Look at all the resistance to EWR, a perfectly normal two track railway, as it approaches Cambridge. Sometimes NIMBYs gotta NIMBY.
 

Bletchleyite

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Almost certainly would then be complaining about all the traffic driving to park at the station instead....

It did occur to me that I'm sure I read that the people of Islip (OK, that's Oxon, but it's still the same "posh NIMBYland") requested that the station didn't get served by all trains because they were concerned about a parking problem more than they were concerned about the utility of the station.
 

Energy

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It did occur to me that I'm sure I read that the people of Islip (OK, that's Oxon, but it's still the same "posh NIMBYland") requested that the station didn't get served by all trains because they were concerned about a parking problem more than they were concerned about the utility of the station.
Its not a suprise that new lines take so long in this country...
 

Bald Rick

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Any updates or time frames on when the TBMs for the Chiltern Tunnels get delivered and start? HS2 keeps hyping them up but no date since they were supposed to start back in December.

They weren’t supposed to start in December, they were due to arrive in December (they did) and the plan to start them off is ‘early 2021’.

I can practically guarantee that they will run into some teething troubles early on - TBMs almost always do - but then crack on and finish early.
 

The Planner

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It did occur to me that I'm sure I read that the people of Islip (OK, that's Oxon, but it's still the same "posh NIMBYland") requested that the station didn't get served by all trains because they were concerned about a parking problem more than they were concerned about the utility of the station.
In Islip's case I sort of get it. Its a village with narrow roads and the station car park is pretty small. It suffers from rat running too.
 

Ianno87

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It did occur to me that I'm sure I read that the people of Islip (OK, that's Oxon, but it's still the same "posh NIMBYland") requested that the station didn't get served by all trains because they were concerned about a parking problem more than they were concerned about the utility of the station.

Its not a suprise that new lines take so long in this country...

Reminds me of this blog, with observations about some of the locals when Maghull North station was proposed:

You know people? People in general? Annoying, aren't they? Their foibles, their prejudices, their way of stinking and moaning and complaining and just ruining things for everyone? People are just so annoying.

I was reminded of this when I was in Maghull yesterday to see an exhibition about a proposed railway station.

(Continues...)

Don't know about you, but if somebody proposed a new station right next to my house on a railway line that was already there, I'd bite their hand off!
 

Energy

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Reminds me of this blog, with observations about some of the locals when Maghull North station was proposed:
That one genuinely makes no sense, the line is already built, to one side is new housing which will benefit from the station who could complain about noise apart from the fact that trains already go by and the other side is a high security prison. HS2 at least has the valid point of that it goes through the countryside. There are times when you unfortunately have to just ignore people, they will object to whatever you do, they just don't like change and want all the plans gone.
 

Bletchleyite

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Don't know about you, but if somebody proposed a new station right next to my house on a railway line that was already there, I'd bite their hand off!

I don't live next to a railway line, but certainly if I was one of those people at Maghull North I'd have been quite happy about it. That said, Maghull is quite leafy-middle-class (though with a Scouse accent) and so there'll be plenty of people who never use trains and drive everywhere.

So (back on topic) if I did live near a proposed Chiltern Parkway I'd probably welcome it. But I can see why there's objection to a line that doesn't serve these places at all, even if the disruption is only fairly minor, unless they go into London and back out first. MKC is probably a more useful railhead for fairly large chunks of Bucks going to Manchester etc, and that'll be reduced in utility. I've commented about the disruption around Bletchley caused by EWR, and at least that will be used by a fair few of the local population (if only say for a nice day out in Oxford once a year) - I'd venture that most inhabitants of the Chiltern "stockbroker belt" will never use HS2, with one of the Jags or Rangies being used for long journeys, and the train (Chiltern) being exclusively for going to London.
 

ExRes

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As there's never likely to be a new station built in Brixham I'm never going to be affected, but having lived next to Gatwick for most of my life I truly wonder if many of those that throw these NIMBY comments about really know what its like having infrastructure projects built right next door to them, I see loads of "if I lived ... I wouldn't mind ...." comments, I suggest you actually need to live close to one of these projects to realise the possible impact

I scream blue murder every time I have to crawl past Stonehenge, but what right do I have to insist the local area is turned into a dual carriageway just to suit, in the main, passers by?
 

Energy

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As there's never likely to be a new station built in Brixham I'm never going to be affected, but having lived next to Gatwick for most of my life I truly wonder if many of those that throw these NIMBY comments about really know what its like having infrastructure projects built right next door to them, I see loads of "if I lived ... I wouldn't mind ...." comments, I suggest you actually need to live close to one of these projects to realise the possible impact

I scream blue murder every time I have to crawl past Stonehenge, but what right do I have to insist the local area is turned into a dual carriageway just to suit, in the main, passers by?
I can understand why some are upset having it right next door to them, but I can't see why people would be complaining when the rail line is already there with trains running.
 

Bletchleyite

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I can understand why some are upset having it right next door to them, but I can't see why people would be complaining when the rail line is already there with trains running.

In Maghull's case it was because their view changed from a rural, open field with a railway there to a fairly ugly fence and lift tower. I can see that point, though the answer to that sort of problem is probably a row of leylandii.
 

ExRes

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I can understand why some are upset having it right next door to them, but I can't see why people would be complaining when the rail line is already there with trains running.

Thing is though, will HS2 resemble in any way the current usage? if it does then fair enough but I suspect we're talking about two entirely different things
 

Bletchleyite

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Thing is though, will HS2 resemble in any way the current usage? if it does then fair enough but I suspect we're talking about two entirely different things

HS2 isn't taking over any existing railways, is it? So this might apply to East West Rail (single track branch with a freight once a blue moon becoming a busier double track railway) but not to HS2.
 
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IIRC, didn't SNCF say something along the lines of, "Learn from our mistakes and don't build intermediate stations to buy off local NIMBY'ism. Use your HSR to do what it's designed to do, move large amounts of people between the major conurbations."
 
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Chris NS

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If it was up to me, I'd have looked at an interchange station between HS2 and East West Rail. That would have a use beyond appeasing locals and making HS2 useful to people along the line would be a bonus.

Although I suspect the people complaining the loudest would still find an excuse to claim it made things even worse.
 

Ianno87

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IIRC, didn't SNCF say something along the lines of, "Learn from our mistakes and don't build intermediate stations to buy off local NIMBY'ism. Use your HSR to do what it's designed to do, move large amounts of people between the major conurbations."

Yes, SNCF experience tends to be that stations built purely for political reasons (rather than operational or commercial ones) tend to work less well. Some of the political 'Parkway' stations on the French high speed network tend to have a sparse service as a result.
 
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