HS2 construction updates

[CW2]

Surely depends on the length of the acceleration and deceleration lanes and dwell times.

Assume 20tph every 3 minutes, 6km/minute, Verney is at 90km, deceleration lane starts at 66km, acceleration lane ends at 126km, points can run at line speed, dwell time of 12 minutes and stop 4 trains per hour.

Of course that's a hell of a lot of land and complicated switching mechanisms, but if you say stop every 3rd train, with a dwell of 6 minutes you can fit them in without losing paths. The train that stops (the 10:00 departure) is overtaken by the 10:03 and 10:06 fasts, then the 10:09 stops and the 10:00 takes its path

Heading north, before Verney you'd have departures at 1000, 1003, 1006 etc.

After Verney the order would be

1003 Manchester
1006
1000 (taking the 1009 slot)
1012
1015
1009 (taking the 1018 slot)
1021
1024
1018 (taking the 1027 slot)
1030
1033
1027 (taking the 1036 slot)
1039
1042
1036 (taking the 1045 slot)
1048
1051
1045 (taking the 1054 slot)
1057
1100
1054 (taking the 1103 slot)

Repeating every 3 hours.

It might work if there was a good reason to stop at Verney on occasion (say a large London+Birmingham replacement airport which could justify 6tph from north and south at the cost of slowing and the added maintenance and land take)



Still confused why this conversation is happening in "HS2 Construction" and not speculative ideas though.

Still wouldn't work, as there are no 360 kph turnouts, so the train turning into the deceleration lane would have to slow down first, delaying the train behind it.

Turning the 2-track HS2 into 4 tracks for 60 km through the Chilterns would be unlikely to find favour with anybody.

Putting a 9 minute delay into a proportion of the trains would kill the proposal outright.

 

[edwin_m]

Or maglev

Personally I'd go for the infinite improbability drive.

Still wouldn't work, as there are no 360 kph turnouts, so the train turning into the deceleration lane would have to slow down first, delaying the train behind it.

Turning the 2-track HS2 into 4 tracks for 60 km through the Chilterns would be unlikely to find favour with anybody.

Putting a 9 minute delay into a proportion of the trains would kill the proposal outright.

I've explained a few posts back how it could work based on what is planned for Birmingham Interchange. However I do agree it would be operationally fragile and there's no justification to build a station here.

 

[Mag_seven]

OK folks it looks as though we are going to have to remind ourselves of the advice given out by @yorkie the other day i.e.

Just a gentle reminder to all that this is a construction updates thread

If anyone wishes to make alternative suggestions for what they think should (or should have) been done, that's what the Speculative Ideas section is for

A large number of recent posts do not appear to be discussing construction updates and are thus off-topic. A lot of these posts are speculative in nature and thus as @yorkie has indicated should be discussed in the speculative ideas section. Examples of threads (that are related to HS2) that can be used over there include:

Possible Alternatives to HS2 | RailUK Forums (railforums.co.uk)
HS2- Southwestern Spur | RailUK Forums (railforums.co.uk)
What to do with HS2 and NPR | RailUK Forums (railforums.co.uk)
Hs2 coventry link. | RailUK Forums (railforums.co.uk)
HS2 hub in Brackley | RailUK Forums (railforums.co.uk)
(1) HS2 & NPR Service Proposal | RailUK Forums (railforums.co.uk)
(1) HS2 Old Oak Common Station - What should it be called? | RailUK Forums (railforums.co.uk)

The above list is not exhaustive - there are others as well

You can also start a new thread if you can't find one that fits.

Going forward the moderating team will be paying special attention to this thread and will delete any future off topic posts without question, so please think before you post.

thank you

 

[miami]

Work next week on building a (temporary) bridge across the Grand Union canal at Willseden


https://s3-eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/...Canal embankment on Atlas Road GB1 GD PDF.pdf


In this sort of area. It's going to close the canal towpath for a while - I used to ride along there on occasion upto getting a train from Harlesden.

 

[jyte]

HS2 have updated their media centre - photos now featuring TBMs being installed at the headwall dated 'from January'.
More here: https://mediacentre.hs2.org.uk/reso...s-massive-machines-and-their-current-progress.

Looks like official start to tunnel could be soon.

Edited to fix a dead link.

 

[ABB125]

I haven't heard anything about the Euston protestors for a day or two. Are they still there, of have they been removed?

 

[AM9]

... Anyway, back on topic, I haven't heard anything about the Euston protestors for a day or two. Are they still there, of have they been removed?

Maybe they have succumbed to terminal flatulence in their catacombs.

 

[ABB125]

Maybe they have succumbed to terminal flatulence in their catacombs.

Was the emboldened bit intended?

Perhaps the HS2 archaeology team will have some more work to do...

 

[AM9]

Was the emboldened bit intended?

Perhaps the HS2 archaeology team will have some more work to do...

Actually it was but I hadn't seen the geographicl pun. I was however feeling quite tired when I posted it as I had my AZ jab yesterday.

 

[hwl]

I haven't heard anything about the Euston protestors for a day or two. Are they still there, of have they been removed?

The protesters court case against HS2 and HSE backfired, the protesters were hoping to stop moves to remove them from tunnels but the court ordered them to hand over engineering drawings of their tunnels to aid eviction and the protesters safety. The judge obviously has a sense of humour!
The drawing obvious don't exist so they could get done for contempt too...

 

[BrianW]

Any updates or time frames on when the TBMs for the Chiltern Tunnels get delivered and start? HS2 keeps hyping them up but no date since they were supposed to start back in December.

Not so much about TBMs but about timescale on HS2 generally- I note the Secretay of State's response to Question 44 at the Transport Committee of 2 Feb:

Q44 Greg Smith: I am painfully aware of how long it is going to take to build HS2. Communities in my constituency are, bluntly, being devastated by it. I accept that you and the Prime Minister have a commitment to the project, and are looking to the future on it. Surely, on that very point, just stopping, pausing and really thinking about where passenger demand for rail is going to be over the next 20, 30 or 40 years, let alone 100 years, would be the prudent thing to do, given the amount of money that the Exchequer has had to borrow throughout covid, partly to prop up the railways. Surely, it is time to pause and just have a think about it.

Grant Shapps: I am constantly amazed by science, and I do not mean this facetiously: unless we think that people will be able to move around in some other way, and we are able to teleport ourselves or find some other way of getting around, humans will always want to be in touch with humans. We are experiencing on this Committee, are we not, the limitations of Zoom and video technology? We have lost one of our Committee members who was supposed to be asking a question. It just is not the same as being together.

All of these years after the west coast main line was built—190 years later—we are still using it and, before coronavirus, in record numbers, so I do not think, given that building this line is 10, 15 or 20 years to connect the rest of the network together, that it is too much of a punt to say that we will be back to people wanting to meet people. We will be very grateful in 50, 100 or maybe 200 years that we have done it.

My view is that we should not be stopping, switching and changing now. I recognise and understand the disturbance it has created and that it is devastating for some of your constituents. I think I have met some of your constituents previously. It is very easy for me as a Government Minister to say that we are doing this for the greater good. I understand, and you are quite right to defend your constituents, but I think that on a national level it would be wrong to reverse the project at this stage. To use coronavirus as the reason to do that would definitely be the wrong approach.

I think that's encouraging.

 

[Ianno87]

It is very pleasing to read those words from Mr Shapps. Recognition that travelling to meet each other face to face is inherently part of being human, and Zoom etc can never be a full substitute for this.

 

[Roast Veg]

I know politicians only talk sense when it suits them, but that was very nice to read.

 

[Class 170101]

In some respects its not what Shapps says but what Sunak and Boris do here thats more important. Perhaps the committee should summon them for questioning about Transport. including projects and financing and not if but when they will be funded.

 

[Horizon22]

People in the Chilterns kicked off massively when the M40 was built, even though there were many junctions. It'll all calm down once it's built and operating, and we'll wonder how we every managed without it. Exactly the same as what happened with HS1.

Yes I often think the PR on HS2 and its construction has very poorly referred to HS1 and how its revolutionized journey times in Kent. There were complaints there and now Southeastern HS services are over-capacity 10 years earlier than planned. However the fact there's no regional services may have had an impact there.

Work next week on building a (temporary) bridge across the Grand Union canal at Willseden


https://s3-eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/...Canal embankment on Atlas Road GB1 GD PDF.pdf


In this sort of area. It's going to close the canal towpath for a while - I used to ride along there on occasion upto getting a train from Harlesden.

View attachment 89873

Is the piling already in place there then?

 

[edwin_m]

Q44 Greg Smith: I am painfully aware of how long it is going to take to build HS2. Communities in my constituency are, bluntly, being devastated by it. I accept that you and the Prime Minister have a commitment to the project, and are looking to the future on it. Surely, on that very point, just stopping, pausing and really thinking about where passenger demand for rail is going to be over the next 20, 30 or 40 years, let alone 100 years, would be the prudent thing to do, given the amount of money that the Exchequer has had to borrow throughout covid, partly to prop up the railways. Surely, it is time to pause and just have a think about it.

If Greg Smith (MP for Buckingham) is worried about how long HS2 will impact on his constituents, it doesn't seem entirely rational to ask for it to be delayed.

 

[Ianno87]

If Greg Smith (MP for Buckingham) is worried about how long HS2 will impact on his constituents, it doesn't seem entirely rational to ask for it to be delayed.

Same mindset that says "HS2 is too expensive and needs a review"... which just puts the thing on temprorary pause and makes it yet more expensive!

 

[Bletchleyite]

If Greg Smith (MP for Buckingham) is worried about how long HS2 will impact on his constituents, it doesn't seem entirely rational to ask for it to be delayed.

And I wonder does he actually realise that most of the disruption through road closures (devastation is rather extreme, though I'd be lying if I said I was happy with the number of them that are going on at once) that are occurring to his constituents are actually relating to East West Rail and not HS2, given that HS2 doesn't actually run through Buckingham nor really even come close to doing so?

 

[Ianno87]

And I wonder does he actually realise that most of the disruption through road closures (devastation is rather extreme, though I'd be lying if I said I was happy with the number of them that are going on at once) that are occurring to his constituents are actually relating to East West Rail and not HS2, given that HS2 doesn't actually run through Buckingham nor really even come close to doing so?

The actual constituency (https://members.parliament.uk/constituency/3376/location) is huge, and HS2 does pretty much run straight through the middle of it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The actual constituency (https://members.parliament.uk/constituency/3376/location) is huge, and HS2 does pretty much run straight through the middle of it.

That's quite surprisingly large (I guess due to the low population density). Thanks.

 

[Dave_Cardboard]

It's a bit of a shame for Bucks. constituency that for most of the time HS2 Phase1 was being considered in Parliament, their M.P. was Mr Speaker which essentially meant they had no voice in Parliament and had to rely on M.P's of neighbouring constituencies to effectively speak for them. Of course, there would have been plenty on "behind the scenes" activity.

 

[david_g]

The attached photos are of the crossroads between the A361 and the Welsh Road I referred to last weekend, this crossroads is on the HS2 construction drawings here:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/529521/C222-ATK-CV-DPP-020-000014-FPD.pdf

The crossroads is about 1km north of where HS2 crosses under the A361 in a tunnel. Originally it was a straight crossing which has now had a stagger in the Welsh Road direction and the A361 widened to include right turn refuges in the centre of the road. They have also added short lengths of pedestrian way and put some drainage in. There are also underground services to consider, possibly just water.

The first photo shows the approach on the Welsh Road from the north west, the road used to follow the hedge on the right.
The second is the A361 looking south.
The third is the A361 looking north.
The fourth is the approach on the Welsh Road from the south east, the line of this approach hasn't changed much.

So the question for the panel is:

If you went in and blitzed this how long would the work take and how long would you need to close the roads for?

Keeping the A361 open is a prioriity, only weekend closures allowed. Single lane working controlled by traffic lights is allowed.

I'll add some photos of the construction site at Wormleighton later as I seem to have hit the upload limit.

 

[SynthD]

The current speaker’s constituency is north of Wigan, just beyond the end of the later works.

Define blitz, if Shapps and others are talking about people being grateful for the line in 200 years time maybe their pace is blitzing it.

 

[swt_passenger]

Regarding the A361 work, didn’t the original roads sub-contractor go bust, and the site was inactive for quite a long period while a replacement contractor was found? AIUI Chipping Warden gets a permanent bypass when it’s all done, presumably the locals are happy with that?

 

[Dave_Cardboard]

On Chipping Warden - yes it does, at time of posting you can see most of it on Google Earth.

 

[david_g]

Regarding the A361 work, didn’t the original roads sub-contractor go bust, and the site was inactive for quite a long period while a replacement contractor was found? AIUI Chipping Warden gets a permanent bypass when it’s all done, presumably the locals are happy with that?

The sub-contractor going bust is quite plausible; certainly there appeared to be nothing but tumbleweed on the site for long periods.

And you are correct that Chipping Warden gets a permanent bypass, it's shown on the plan I linked to. I would assume locals are happy with it, AIUI it was put in to get round objections that may have arisen over construction traffic passing through the village and to have built a temporary bypass which was then removed would be somewhat perverse....and extremely unpopular.

I don't know the route any construction traffic is taking, but I would imagine the residents of Wardington, just over a mile to the south on the A361, are eyeing their neighbours over the Northamptonshire border somewhat enviously if it's going that way.

As nobody has taken up the challenge to estimate how long the crossroads work would take if you really went for it, I'll put this in:



It was posted by someone on a canal related forum I frequent and grabbed my interest because the thought expressed that if it has taken two years to alter a crossroads there's no chance of completing HS2 in ten years is one that also occurred to me. It really has been a poor advert.

HS2 excelled themselves last week by simultaneously closing the B4452 in both directions from Harbury (the A425 is already closed of course) meaning the route out to the east was via Bishops Itchington which is not ideal. I imagine the village facebook page ran along the lines of "Eastern England cut off from Harbury". Things kicked off and a "senior level conversion(sic)" with the county council took place according to our local councillor. The problem seems to have occured during work to lay in the Great Extension Lead (to borrow a phrase from elsewhere on here) which is going to power the TBM at Long Itchington.

The pictures below show the worksite at Wormleighton on this map:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/532885/C223-CSI-CV-DPP-030-000001-FPD.pdf

The first is the entrance to the worksite and the second roughly where the line will run in a cutting. The formation will be quadruple track according to the plan as there will be maintenance loops here. If people are interested I can take photos of this site as work progresses, assuming they haven't closed the road

 

[Yindee8191]

The sub-contractor going bust is quite plausible; certainly there appeared to be nothing but tumbleweed on the site for long periods.

And you are correct that Chipping Warden gets a permanent bypass, it's shown on the plan I linked to. I would assume locals are happy with it, AIUI it was put in to get round objections that may have arisen over construction traffic passing through the village and to have built a temporary bypass which was then removed would be somewhat perverse....and extremely unpopular.

I don't know the route any construction traffic is taking, but I would imagine the residents of Wardington, just over a mile to the south on the A361, are eyeing their neighbours over the Northamptonshire border somewhat enviously if it's going that way.

As nobody has taken up the challenge to estimate how long the crossroads work would take if you really went for it, I'll put this in:

View attachment 90239

It was posted by someone on a canal related forum I frequent and grabbed my interest because the thought expressed that if it has taken two years to alter a crossroads there's no chance of completing HS2 in ten years is one that also occurred to me. It really has been a poor advert.

HS2 excelled themselves last week by simultaneously closing the B4452 in both directions from Harbury (the A425 is already closed of course) meaning the route out to the east was via Bishops Itchington which is not ideal. I imagine the village facebook page ran along the lines of "Eastern England cut off from Harbury". Things kicked off and a "senior level conversion(sic)" with the county council took place according to our local councillor. The problem seems to have occured during work to lay in the Great Extension Lead (to borrow a phrase from elsewhere on here) which is going to power the TBM at Long Itchington.

The pictures below show the worksite at Wormleighton on this map:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/532885/C223-CSI-CV-DPP-030-000001-FPD.pdf

The first is the entrance to the worksite and the second roughly where the line will run in a cutting. The formation will be quadruple track according to the plan as there will be maintenance loops here. If people are interested I can take photos of this site as work progresses, assuming they haven't closed the road

Please do keep doing updates - it’ll be interesting to see the process of construction. So far, a lot of progress updates are focussed on features (particularly tunnels), so seeing how a section of relatively normal track goes would be good.

 

[Bald Rick]

Please do keep doing updates - it’ll be interesting to see the process of construction. So far, a lot of progress updates are focussed on features (particularly tunnels), so seeing how a section of relatively normal track goes would be good.

There won’t be any permanent track for a long time.

 

[Yindee8191]

There won’t be any permanent track for a long time.

Yes, I know that, that’s fairly obvious. I think I was a little unclear in what I wrote - I just meant a fairly ‘standard’ section of the line (ie not in tunnels/on viaducts), not the actual track.

 

[Nottingham59]

The BBC have just posted an aerial video showing the current state of construction along the route:

An aerial view of HS2 construction so far

Take a flight along phase one of the high-speed rail network – from London to Birmingham.

www.bbc.co.uk