West Midlands Trains duty of care: LNR passengers abandoned on platform

[Starmill]

Was your ticket just from Crewe to London Euston? As others have suggested as a minimum you'd be entitled to the value of this in compensation for a delay of more than two hours, and it sounds like you were rather more than two hours late.

 

[Parham Wood]

This is appalling treatment of passengers by LNWR whatever the reasons. There has been a failure of communication both within the railway organisation and to passengers. Complaints should be put to DfT, local MP and LNWR. I would ask my MP to demand a full investigation. However I suspect LNWR just assumed that the timetabled trains would run and probably did not contact the other TOCs to confirm they were or control. To those who suggest that passengers find their own way home overlooks that some passengers may not have the funds on them to get home. Not everyone has a credit card or that much cash. Most of us are lucky that we can afford to cover such incidents and claim back later but some do not. Also what happens if you get a taxi and a train stops a few minutes later? Claiming the fare could be difficult although this might be easier if one waited until the promised trains didn't arrive.

There are many situation where you just have to accept delays due to disruption as nothing can be done but in this case being late at night much more care should have been shown to the passengers. They like to call us customers these days but to many railway parts / people there is no such thing as customer care or satisfaction.

 

[Wolfie]

That's not strictly true. It has to be requested in a specific way for start.

If you are talking about FOI you are wrong. I work for Govt and we are firmly told that anything which could constitute an FOI request must be treated as such even if that is not specifically stated. Failure to do so brings all sorts of problems from the Information Commissioner.

With respect, it does not. If the information is requested in writing (such as by email) or, in some cases, orally then the legal obligation to disclose is engaged.

I should explain that I frequently advise sundry railway bodies, including Network Rail and the DfT, on such matters as part of my work.

Absolutely correct.

Why?

The general public (and most posters on these boards, despite what they think) aren't operational experts, so why should technical operational decisions be subject to public scrutiny by armchair experts?

The sheer arrogance of that statement. Just bend over and accept being shafted...

 

[ashkeba]

I maintain, a sensible adult should be capable of taking a sensible decision - if after an hour a train hasn't turned up, particularly when there has been a significant disruption, then take responsibility for your journey and get home, sort out the complaint and recompense later.

Any claim the taxi will probably be rejected because they didn't approve it and by walking off the station, you denied the TOC a chance to make up some time.

 

[Starmill]

If you took your own taxi rather than one arranged by the train company, and you did not have prior agreement that they would fund this, you would be overwhelmingly likely to find any claim for the taxi fare rejected. If you only waited one hour, or if the bill were significant, this would increase the likelihood of this.

 

[Wolfie]

If you took your own taxi rather than one arranged by the train company, and you did not have prior agreement that they would fund this, you would be overwhelmingly likely to find any claim for the taxi fare rejected. If you only waited one hour, or if the bill were significant, this would increase the likelihood of this.

That would be my cue to go legal via MCOL. Defending the case, where if the small claims channel is used they couldn't reclaim their costs and the venue is chosen by a litigant in person, would cost the TOC way more than the taxi fare. If everyone did that every time it would send them a hell of a message - they'd either fix things or go bust very quickly....

If the rail industry really believes that everything should be on it's terms and it can screw customers as much and as long as it wants without comeback it deserves to be taught a very hard lesson. If it's dumb enough, and some of the arrogant views on this thread suggest that is the case, not to learn the first time then that lesson needs to be repeated again and again and again until it does. If that hurts then all the better.

The rail industry has been adept at making passengers suffer due to it's problems. It's about time that it really felt the pain.....

 

[MotCO]

That would be my cue to go legal via MCOL. Defending the case, where if the small claims channel is used they couldn't reclaim their costs and the venue is chosen by a litigant in person, would cost the TOC way more than the taxi fare. If everyone did that every time it would send them a hell of a message - they'd either fix things or go bust very quickly....

If the rail industry really believes that everything should be on it's terms and it can screw customers as much and as long as it wants without comeback it deserves to be taught a very hard lesson. If it's dumb enough, and some of the arrogant views on this thread suggest that is the case, not to learn the first time then that lesson needs to be repeated again and again and again until it does. If that hurts then all the better.

The rail industry has been adept at making passengers suffer due to it's problems. It's about time that it really felt the pain.....

MCOL?

 

[Wolfie]

MCOL?

Sorry, Money Claim On Line

MCOL - Money Claim Online - Welcome

www.moneyclaim.gov.uk

 

[ComUtoR]

I agree that some operating staff do not look for other solutions to a problem. I recall some time go there was a problem between Orpington and Sevenoaks in the height of the evening rush hour. The solution was to turf passengers out at Orpington and try to source Replacement Bus Services. As anyone would know, conjuring up RRBs cannot be done in 5 minutes, so there was a massive crowd at Orpington, which spilled onto the road outside, blocking it, and further delaying any RRBs that might arrive.

The less obvious, but more practical solution, would be to divert trains at Chislehurst to Sevenoaks via Bat and Ball, and for passengers looking for Chelsfield, Knockholt and Dunton Green to change at Sevenoaks for a London-bound train to call at these stations.

This would have avoided all the crowding issues, would not require RRBs, and would have got passengers home much quicker. Willl this ever happen in future? Nah, not a chance.

This is a classic example of where there is a fundamental lack of understanding of how the railway operates. Without going off topic too much, there are various reasons why what you describe isn't possible.

 

[tspaul26]

Complaints should be put to DfT, local MP and LNWR.

After all of the back-and-forth, I think this is the short answer the original question posed.

 

[AlterEgo]

After all of the back-and-forth, I think this is the short answer the original question posed.

Absolutely no need to involve the DfT and your MP, neither of whom will care or be in a position to rectify anything.

Complaint should go to the operator in the first instance.

 

[allotments]

Did you talk to the railwayman on the platform? Did he do anything to help?

I only noticed a railwayman around 00:10 and he was busy calmly interacting with other near hypothermic passengers who were all quite cool about the situation (excuse the pun!).

I didn't want to increase the pressure on the poor chap who obviously wouldn't have expected to discover stranded passengers.

I noticed a rat scuttling across the zebra crossing in the station car park.

Several times Freightliner container trains swept past and buffeted the passengers. Each time somebody stepped out thinking it was their train and the driver had to blast the horn so people kept back.

One poor lady was trying to sleep horizontally on the platform tarmac.

Perhaps the railwayman was there to lock up the station after last train departure.? I didn't see any railway personnel on platform earlier. The station appeared to be unstaffed. It wasn't wise to go roaming the four platform station with subways to find personnel for fear of missing a train when one might suddenly turn up.

When the railway goes into meltdown I've seen trains appear suddenly from nowhere with departure boards showing ongoing delay but no train. I recall this at Crewe two years ago. A train from Liverpool to Euston suddenly did a scheduled stop while the departure board and National Rail website didn't show any train en route. Yet the train had obviously been coming for 20 minutes or more.

 

[yorkie]

Glad to see were back on topic now, but please can we ensure we stick to discussing the matter in hand and also to ensure that posts are respectful.

Disagreement is fine but it cannot get too personal.

Please also ensure that any posts which cause concern are not replied to, quoted or referred to in any way, and are instead reported to us using the report button.

 

[allotments]

Absolutely no need to involve the DfT and your MP, neither of whom will care or be in a position to rectify anything.

Complaint should go to the operator in the first instance.

I'm complaining directly to LNWR.

Looking for a full and honest explanation and evidence that systems will be put in place to prevent recurrence so that the railway can learn from this incident.

I note that the railway doesn't lose track of it's trains and crew but seems to be able to lose a trainful of passengers. Are there no tracking systems in place at Control for detrained passengers ?

I'm very positive about the railway and benefit immensely from the service, including that from LNWR which is my preferred carrier from London to Crewe. So much better than driving everywhere. My cars stay at home and do very few miles. I take a full size folding bike with me and only fold it if a train is busy or I have to use an Avanti train.

Throughout the pandemic I've been able to continue travel for work while rail staff have been exposed to daily risk.

For all of that and the usual high standard of customer care I'm very grateful.

So I've no reason to complain in a way which will unnecessarily damage the railway.

This is appalling treatment of passengers by LNWR whatever the reasons. There has been a failure of communication both within the railway organisation and to passengers. Complaints should be put to DfT, local MP and LNWR. I would ask my MP to demand a full investigation. However I suspect LNWR just assumed that the timetabled trains would run and probably did not contact the other TOCs to confirm they were or control. To those who suggest that passengers find their own way home overlooks that some passengers may not have the funds on them to get home. Not everyone has a credit card or that much cash. Most of us are lucky that we can afford to cover such incidents and claim back later but some do not. Also what happens if you get a taxi and a train stops a few minutes later? Claiming the fare could be difficult although this might be easier if one waited until the promised trains didn't arrive.

There are many situation where you just have to accept delays due to disruption as nothing can be done but in this case being late at night much more care should have been shown to the passengers. They like to call us customers these days but to many railway parts / people there is no such thing as customer care or satisfaction.

There were certainly vulnerable passengers who didn't have the funds to rescue themselves from the situation. Those who could afford it gradually disappeared from the platform.

 

[Starmill]

That would be my cue to go legal via MCOL.

Agreed but the reality is your average customer isn't going to do this. Not least because they aren't going to want to pay the fee.

 

[43066]

They try it on, it's how they are trained. It's difficult for £The family" to admit it.

This is a ludicrous conspiracy theory.

People who aren't able to re plan their journey must make up a significant number of rail passengers, many of which will be far more intelligent than you or I. Even those who can look through a time table and work out an alternative route, or work out that another station is only a 10 minute brisk walk away, or have the people skills to converse with staff are often significantly hindered in their attempt by rail staff turning the situation into a bigger farce than it was in the first place.

Look, I have every sympathy for disabled travellers but there are limits on what is going to be possible. On trail railstaff are not chaperones or carers and they are not equipped to deal with complex disabilities and/or mental health needs. Indeed on many parts of the network no staff at all will be encountered during a journey.

Of course vulnerable adults are carried but they need to be capable of independent travel, otherwise arrangements are made for them to be accompanied. If someone is unable to replan a journey and use a help point, at the minimum, then they should not travel alone and special arrangements will need to be made.

It is soul destroying seeing countless members on here who work for the railway,

But everyone has conceded that things clearly went wrong on this occasion. Unlike many on this forum railstaff (and 99% of passengers) can accept that mistakes happen and things aren’t always perfect 100% of the time.

What many staff find soul destroying is the small minority of passengers who seem to actively relish things going wrong just so they can complain. I cannot believe there are people who would seriously consider a small claims court over a £20 train ticket and apparently believe TOCs are out to get them...

And by and large the TOC did look after passengers. RRBs were put in place between MK and Watford, many others were helped or diverted to get them home.

What happened here falls firmly into the cock up category, but every company makes mistakes.

Indeed. TOCs generally (mine included) tend to be pretty good at dealing with this type of thing and recovering the service.

Any claim the taxi will probably be rejected because they didn't approve it and by walking off the station, you denied the TOC a chance to make up some time.

A couple of weeks ago I was commuting to work and the train I was on (not my TOC) developed a fault. I decided to jump into an Uber for the rest of the way which cost me £20. I won’t be able to claim the money back. I haven’t complained or called for anyone to be sacked either. Sometimes it’s a case of “suck it up, buttercup”!

In the OP’s situation many people would stump up a tenner or so for a cab to another station, to make their onward connections, rather than face a cross London schlep on nightbuses.

 

[AlterEgo]

I'm complaining directly to LNWR.

Looking for a full and honest explanation and evidence that systems will be put in place to prevent recurrence so that the railway can learn from this incident.

I note that the railway doesn't lose track of it's trains and crew but seems to be able to lose a trainful of passengers. Are there no tracking systems in place at Control for detrained passengers ?

The railway knows where all the trains are because they use TRUST and systems like CCF which physically show the location of each one. On the location of passengers, that’s really up to Control staff to remember, either in their head or better still by logging it or using post-it notes so they know which trains have disgorged passengers where when they terminate a train short of destination.

There’s not really any other way to do that, because passengers aren’t like trains and don’t have trackers (and during disruption many passengers will just melt away and make their own plans). Ideally, you don’t turf passengers off at unstaffed stations - was HML unstaffed at this time?

 

[allotments]

On Friday night the very apologetic train manager explained that the reason for setting down passengers and turning the train was that the driver would end up working over permitted hours and other operational reasons.

Somewhat reminiscent of the attached story from Spain although it appears in that case the passengers could stay on the train.

100% support the decision not to drive excessive hours.

I spent most of the long wait on Hemel Hempstead platform talking with my partner insisting that she be patient and not drive through the small hours to pick me up either from HML or EUS. I'd rather spend the whole night on the platform than risk anyone's safety driving 3 hours after bedtime.

No disaster.

The railway knows where all the trains are because they use TRUST and systems like CCF which physically show the location of each one. On the location of passengers, that’s really up to Control staff to remember, either in their head or better still by logging it or using post-it notes so they know which trains have disgorged passengers where when they terminate a train short of destination.

There’s not really any other way to do that, because passengers aren’t like trains and don’t have trackers (and during disruption many passengers will just melt away and make their own plans). Ideally, you don’t turf passengers off at unstaffed stations - was HML unstaffed at this time?

Seemed to be unstaffed until 00:10

 

[O L Leigh]

I commend the OP for his mature approach to this, and for the way he's taking his complaint forward. He's absolutely right to engage with the TOC on this, as no other body, no matter how high they may be, would be in any position to answer his queries. If the response from LNWR proves not to be satisfactory then by all means escalate it, but there really isn't much point doing so in the first instance.

As for the costs, well Delay Repay will cover the cost of the rail ticket and there really shouldn't be any quibbles over entitlement to that. Recovery of any other costs, such as taxi fares, will have to go through other channels as has been described.

From the railway's side, I don't think that there's much argument that an incident of this sort shouldn't happen. On this point I see no disagreement anywhere. However, there does seem to be a misunderstanding between the acceptance that mistakes can be made, the railway's legal responsibilities to those using the network and the beliefs of those who raise a hue and cry every time something like this happens. That there are realities to the operational side of the rail network and limits to what a TOC is legally compelled to do during disruption does not infer an uncaring or lackadaisical attitude towards passengers, and certainly is not evidence of some great conspiracy that says railstaff and their employers act deliberately and with intent.

 

[Wolfie]

I commend the OP for his mature approach to this, and for the way he's taking his complaint forward. He's absolutely right to engage with the TOC on this, as no other body, no matter how high they may be, would be in any position to answer his queries. If the response from LNWR proves not to be satisfactory then by all means escalate it, but there really isn't much point doing so in the first instance.

As for the costs, well Delay Repay will cover the cost of the rail ticket and there really shouldn't be any quibbles over entitlement to that. Recovery of any other costs, such as taxi fares, will have to go through other channels as has been described.

From the railway's side, I don't think that there's much argument that an incident of this sort shouldn't happen. On this point I see no disagreement anywhere. However, there does seem to be a misunderstanding between the acceptance that mistakes can be made, the railway's legal responsibilities to those using the network and the beliefs of those who raise a hue and cry every time something like this happens. That there are realities to the operational side of the rail network and limits to what a TOC is legally compelled to do during disruption does not infer an uncaring or lackadaisical attitude towards passengers, and certainly is not evidence of some great conspiracy that says railstaff and their employers act deliberately and with intent.

A perfectly reasonable and balanced post which l imagine took some time to write, thank you for the effort. Appreciated.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

On this point I see no disagreement anywhere. However, there does seem to be a misunderstanding between the acceptance that mistakes can be made, the railway's legal responsibilities to those using the network and the beliefs of those who raise a hue and cry every time something like this happens. That there are realities to the operational side of the rail network and limits to what a TOC is legally compelled to do during disruption does not infer an uncaring or lackadaisical attitude towards passengers...

Good post. What happened at Hemel the other night does still seem to be at variance with what LNR say in their own Passenger's Charter that they will...

"...proactively manage the incident to reduce the possibility and likelihood of significant disruption to your journeys as a result."

Provided, however, that recompense is offered to the affected passengers, suitable lessons are taken on board, and this avoidable incident isn't repeated anytime soon, reckon that we can now all move on.

 

[seagull]

Agree with those suggesting to approach LNWR in the first instance: they quite evidently "screwed up" in this case, I am certain not by deliberate intent but when things go wrong, there's a huge amount of tasks involved with trying to put it right again, and it is an unfortunate fact that occasionally some of those tasks (i.e rescuing passengers at an intermediate station) get overlooked: maybe when robots take over the world it won't happen any more. Not a nice situation to be in though: it happened to me once in Virgin Trains days when I boarded a Rail Replacement Bus from Wolverhampton to Coseley where a train was supposed to take us forward, except there was no train, and the bus had gone. About 15 of us ended up having to ring for taxis to get us to Birmingham New Street.

It is also unfortunate that some posters here use things like this as an excuse to bring out the old "typical staff attitude, customers are an inconvenience" line. In my experience the majority of frontline staff know full well who pays their wages and do as much as they can to help: sadly there are many things that conspire against staff being able to do as much as they'd like, ranging from health and safety issues to union issues to hours exceeded issues to Control who have other ideas, etc. Also problems with traincrew being in the wrong place, trains being in the wrong place, route knowledge for diversions, the list goes on but it's surprising just how many problems need to be solved when it does all go horribly wrong.
I do think that the railway could do better to pick up the pieces when it goes pear-shaped, but in many years I've seen all sorts of different plans and schemes tried and nothing really seems to have solved it.

 

[WelshBluebird]

Look, I have every sympathy for disabled travellers but there are limits on what is going to be possible. On trail railstaff are not chaperones or carers and they are not equipped to deal with complex disabilities and/or mental health needs. Indeed on many parts of the network no staff at all will be encountered during a journey.

Of course vulnerable adults are carried but they need to be capable of independent travel, otherwise arrangements are made for them to be accompanied. If someone is unable to replan a journey and use a help point, at the minimum, then they should not travel alone and special arrangements will need to be made.

You seem to be assuming that only those with serious mental handicaps are in the position where they would struggle with being thrown off a train in a potentially unknown area late at night with no useful information (actually, being lied to about trains stopping for them shortly) and without enough staff to help them. I can assure you most normal pepple would also struggle in that situation unless they could phone someone for a lift or afford a taxi.

I cannot believe there are people who would seriously consider a small claims court over a £20 train ticket.

If the railway failed to deliver their side of the contract then why shouldn't someone consider small claims for it?

A couple of weeks ago I was commuting to work and the train I was on (not my TOC) developed a fault. I decided to jump into an Uber for the rest of the way which cost me £20. I won’t be able to claim the money back. I haven’t complained or called for anyone to be sacked either. Sometimes it’s a case of “suck it up, buttercup”!

In the OP’s situation many people would stump up a tenner or so for a cab to another station, to make their onward connections, rather than face a cross London schlep on nightbuses.

Great for those who can afford it.
And yes, most people would be able to. But not all.
I certainly remember days when I was a student money was pretty tight and an extra unbudgeted tenner would have caused quite a few issues (also I suspect you are under estimating the cost of a taxi, a tenner gets you basically a couple of miles these days at least where I live).

 

[RailWonderer]

Fundamentally disagree - just remind yourself, who are they recovering the service for? In case it's not clear: it's the customers. Ultimately they pay the staff's wages. Typical railway attitude that sees the customer as an inconvenience.

And if we're talking about recovering the service, the above RTT extract shows just how bad a job they made of it. "Gave up and went home" would be a more apt description of the service recovery. Not the first time I've been aware of such incompetence with LNR, either.

I was only reflecting the sentiment of the railway as I have experienced it. I do think control did an awful job and they did not coordinate with ToC staff. I think we can all agree on that. In my experience, especially when they ran that through timetable up until March 2020, the inevitable delays of running stopping trains from Liverpool, Rugeley and Crewe to Euston were made far worse by the way they handled them.

If it was me I would've coughed up for a taxi to St Albans from HH as some must have done also and accepted that as the station had no staff as I understand it to arrange anything. Then there were no staff from any other stations that considered unstaffed stations may have stranded passengers that needed a train to take them home. A big blunder that goes as a black mark against LNWR.

 

[robbeech]

I cannot believe there are people who would seriously consider a small claims court over a £20 train ticket and apparently believe TOCs are out to get them...

I cannot believe there are railway staff who would seriously consider a RORA prosecution for a 5 days expired railcard on an £8 ticket. But of course, that is acceptable because it benefits the TOC and treads the passenger into the ground.

It's interesting that in order to fit with the agenda, such notable snips and cuts had to be made to the quotes to avoid them including anything positive.

Your attitude (as it comes across here at least) is the perfect example of why people have so little trust in the railway, and form such a negative opinion of it. It is the reason the vast majority of staff have such a battle on their hands. You've made people who don't have the same TOC focussed view out to be the extreme opposite rather than accepting there is something in the middle.

People (more than one) made terrible misjudgements that evening, and it is only right that after a large number of people were left on a platform for hours on end being lied to for hours on end that the operator in question makes a statement about it, and internally investigates what went wrong and develops a plan to minimise the chances of it happening again. Nobody here expects them to be perfect, they expect them to take responsibility for their actions, and history shows this is not necessarily going to happen which gets people upset. Likely 2/3 of the people left behind won't have had the immediate ability to replan a journey, and a higher number won't have bothered because they were promised the next train would call time and time again, it's incredibly disappointing to see railway staff speak of the majority of passengers in this way, but it's sadly unsurprising.

 

[allotments]

As in the instant when decisions are made there's no way of knowing how vulnerable the most vulnerable passenger is, it's only safe to assume at least one passenger may be extremely vulnerable. The experience will be stressful for some passengers and their reaction unpredictable. Setting all passengers down at ~ from the passenger's perspective ~ an apparently unstaffed desolate station in the middle of the night doesn't seem at all wise when Watford Junction was 4 minutes down the line.

 

[Wolfie]

I cannot believe there are railway staff who would seriously consider a RORA prosecution for a 5 days expired railcard on an £8 ticket. But of course, that is acceptable because it benefits the TOC and treads the passenger into the ground.

It's interesting that in order to fit with the agenda, such notable snips and cuts had to be made to the quotes to avoid them including anything positive.

Your attitude (as it comes across here at least) is the perfect example of why people have so little trust in the railway, and form such a negative opinion of it. It is the reason the vast majority of staff have such a battle on their hands. You've made people who don't have the same TOC focussed view out to be the extreme opposite rather than accepting there is something in the middle.

People (more than one) made terrible misjudgements that evening, and it is only right that after a large number of people were left on a platform for hours on end being lied to for hours on end that the operator in question makes a statement about it, and internally investigates what went wrong and develops a plan to minimise the chances of it happening again. Nobody here expects them to be perfect, they expect them to take responsibility for their actions, and history shows this is not necessarily going to happen which gets people upset. Likely 2/3 of the people left behind won't have had the immediate ability to replan a journey, and a higher number won't have bothered because they were promised the next train would call time and time again, it's incredibly disappointing to see railway staff speak of the majority of passengers in this way, but it's sadly unsurprising.

I would only add that learning from mistakes so that they don't happen again would also be positive. Sadly the railway is appalling at doing so, probably because in part some staff can't be bothered to do so. Perhaps if their butts were on the line they might improve....

 

[Robertj21a]

It's the unhelpful and unsympathetic attitude displayed by a *small* minority of rail staff (clearly, there's one on this thread) that reminds others of just how much still needs to be done to improve the passenger experience on UK railways.

 

[Wolfie]

As in the instant when decisions are made there's no way of knowing how vulnerable the most vulnerable passenger is, it's only safe to assume at least one passenger may be extremely vulnerable. The experience will be stressful for some passengers and their reaction unpredictable. Setting all passengers down at ~ from the passenger's perspective ~ an apparently unstaffed desolate station in the middle of the night doesn't seem at all wise when Watford Junction was 4 minutes down the line.

If you'd been taken to Watford Junction then other travel possibilities (e.g. London Overground) would have opened. I hope that l'm wrong but l can't help wondering whether not wishing to pay for that may have been part of the decision process.

It's the unhelpful and unsympathetic attitude displayed by a *small* minority of rail staff (clearly, there's one on this thread) that reminds others of just how much still needs to be done to improve the passenger experience on UK railways.

Agreed

 

[43066]

You seem to be assuming that only those with serious mental handicaps are in the position where they would struggle with being thrown off a train in a potentially unknown area late at night with no useful information

I’m making the assumption that TOCs do: namely that those travelling around on the network unsupervised are competent to do (including coping with unexpected delays). If they are not, that’s hardly the TOC’s fault, despite what some on here seem to believe.

(actually, being lied to about trains stopping for them shortly)

Why assume nefarious intent? Any evidence the staff members were lying? Most likely to have been passing on information they had been given in good faith, which then proved incorrect through no fault of their own.

If the railway failed to deliver their side of the contract then why shouldn't someone consider small claims for it?

Most people probably wouldn’t see it as a worthwhile use of their time and would conclude life was to short. Each to their own.

Great for those who can afford it.
And yes, most people would be able to. But not all.
I certainly remember days when I was a student money was pretty tight and an extra unbudgeted tenner would have caused quite a few issues (also I suspect you are under estimating the cost of a taxi, a tenner gets you basically a couple of miles these days at least where I live).

Someone noted above that a cab to a tube station or another NR station would be around £10-12.

I commend the OP for his mature approach to this, and for the way he's taking his complaint forward. He's absolutely right to engage with the TOC on this, as no other body, no matter how high they may be, would be in any position to answer his queries. If the response from LNWR proves not to be satisfactory then by all means escalate it, but there really isn't much point doing so in the first instance.

As for the costs, well Delay Repay will cover the cost of the rail ticket and there really shouldn't be any quibbles over entitlement to that. Recovery of any other costs, such as taxi fares, will have to go through other channels as has been described.

From the railway's side, I don't think that there's much argument that an incident of this sort shouldn't happen. On this point I see no disagreement anywhere. However, there does seem to be a misunderstanding between the acceptance that mistakes can be made, the railway's legal responsibilities to those using the network and the beliefs of those who raise a hue and cry every time something like this happens. That there are realities to the operational side of the rail network and limits to what a TOC is legally compelled to do during disruption does not infer an uncaring or lackadaisical attitude towards passengers, and certainly is not evidence of some great conspiracy that says railstaff and their employers act deliberately and with intent.

Excellent post.

I cannot believe there are railway staff who would seriously consider a RORA prosecution for a 5 days expired railcard on an £8 ticket. But of course, that is acceptable because it benefits the TOC and treads the passenger into the ground.

If I shoplifted from my local supermarket I’d expect to be prosecuted. If I spend £8 on some groceries which turned out to be no good I wouldn’t them to the small claims court.

Your attitude (as it comes across here at least) is the perfect example of why people have so little trust in the railway, and form such a negative opinion of it. It is the reason the vast majority of staff have such a battle on their hands. You've made people who don't have the same TOC focussed view out to be the extreme opposite rather than accepting there is something in the middle.

Not a TOC focussed attitude (I’m a passenger as much as I’m at work), just a real world acceptance that things can go wrong and that a litre perspective is needed.

It's the unhelpful and unsympathetic attitude displayed by a *small* minority of rail staff (clearly, there's one on this thread) that reminds others of just how much still needs to be done to improve the passenger experience on UK railways.

You’ve previously commented that you hardly use the railways because you find them too expensive, too awkward etc. Maybe that’s for the best all round. Other forms of transport are available .