Entire 800/801/802 fleet stood down for safety checks

[Essan]

How about everything between Hanborough and Pershore...

(though if GWR do run a Turbo in place of an IET then that might solve that one)

Although most services have been cancelled this morning, they do appear to have a couple of 80xs running on the Cotswold line (according to RTT)

 

[yorksrob]

After all that palava, perhaps I was hasty in cancelling my trip !

 

[Bald Rick]

I doubt it will affect even 1% of the population.

It will be rather less than 0.1% of the population that are affected.

 

[Bikeman78]

'
Customer Advice:
Owing to the short notice unavailability of carriages which form our High Speed train services there will be no train services or alternative means of transport available for throughout journeys, in either direction, on the following routes :
London Paddington - Swindon - Bath Spa - Bristol Temple Meads.
.
London Paddington - Swindon - Bristol Parkway - Newport - Cardiff Central - Swansea.
.
London Paddington - Reading - Taunton - Exeter St Davids - Plymouth - Penzance.
.
London Paddington - Reading - Oxford - Evesham - Worcester - Great Malvern - Hereford.
.
London Paddington - Reading - Swindon - Gloucester - Cheltenham Spa.
.
INTENDING CUSTOMERS FOR THESE ROUTES ARE ADVISED NOT TO ATTEMPT TO TRAVEL
'

Some journeys still possible, if you're not in a hurry. E.g. Swansea to London changing at Cardiff Central and Salisbury.

This raises another question. With LNER not running, are they expecting XC or TPE to help out and carry their passengers? Would they do the same if the roles were reversed, given the compulsory reservations?

 

[F Great Eastern]

If they've known about it for a month, I wonder why they've stopped the show today ?

Is that true?

 

[24Grange]

Sounds like everyone is working really hard to resolve. However can't think there is going to be more tricky decisions down the line, in terms of availability - extra inspection time, replacement/redesign and fitting of new parts etc - rather than a "quick fix" ( if that is what this is, of visually inspecting and ok to run). - are they running at full line speed anyone know once cleared / or temporary speed restrictions?

 

[Horizon22]

Although most services have been cancelled this morning, they do appear to have a couple of 80xs running (according to RTT)

It is best to pre-cancel and then if (and only if) units are declared fit, bring certain diagrams back and reinstate. Stating expectations early on is the right tactic.

Getting services to Bristol I would say has to be the priority and probably the SW as at least you have options to change. Possibly something from Oxford too.

A train from Worcester appears to be moving: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/P67001/2021-05-08/detailed

 

[Caaardiff]

GWR
SWA - PAD
0522 - Cancelled
0622 - Run on time
0722 - Cancelled
0822 - Cancelled
0923 - Cancelled
1022 - Run on time
1122 - Showing on time
1222 - Cancelled
1324 - Showing on time
1423 - Cancelled
1523 - Cancelled
1622 / 1726 / 1822 - Showing on time
1926 - Cancelled
8 of 15 services cancelled

PAD - SWA
0648 - Run 17 late
0748 - Cancelled
0848 - Cancelled
0948 - Run on time
1048 - Showing on time
1148 - Cancelled
1248 - Cancelled
1348 - Cancelled
1448 - Showing on time
1548 hourly services to 2048 - All Cancelled
11 of 15 services cancelled

I would imagine people would be best to get PAD-Bristol TM services and connect to Cardiff & TfW from Cardiff

 

[Wolfie]

Think about who ordered and procured the trains and why it would be beneficial for them to keep this quiet until now rather than a few days earlier.....

It's possible that inspections showed that the problem was worse/more widespread than had been thought.

On the other hand it's amazing how often timing is "coincidental".... Like a fishing dispute, complete with flag waving, blowing up on Wed/Thu....

 

[yorksrob]

Think about who ordered and procured the trains and why it would be beneficial for them to keep this quiet until now rather than a few days earlier.....

Ahhh .......

That said, if you were waiting a month, wouldn't it be easier to just inspect them one by one over that time !

 

[bengley]

Sounds like everyone is working really hard to resolve. However can't think there is going to be more tricky decisions down the line, in terms of availability - extra inspection time, replacement/redesign and fitting of new parts etc - rather than a "quick fix" ( if that is what this is, of visually inspecting and ok to run). - are they running at full line speed anyone know once cleared / or temporary speed restrictions?

This isn't really possible to fix with new parts per se - it's the actual bodyshell which is damaged.

 

[Bikeman78]

Quite a few 387s sat around in sidings when I travelled back from Cardiff on Thursday, could be a good time to try a Pad-Cdf 387 service

Following the Sandy derailment in 1998, class 317s and 321/9s ran from King's Cross to Leeds. I wonder who crewed them?

 

[43096]

Perhaps people are rather busy addressing the problem?

Part of addressing the problem is communicating with your customers. And I don't just mean by Twitter, either.

 

[aag2110]

I was booked on the 06.30 KGX-LDS this morning. Advised at Kings Cross they didn’t expect trains to run for the rest of the day so hopped over to St Pancras for the 06.33 STP-York up to Sheffield.

Would say a lot of the people on that train had come over from Kings Cross & then changed at Sheffield onto cross country.

Slightly frustrating to then check RTT and see the 07.03 KGX-LDS ran, albeit a little late!! I mean, I’m sure at that time info was patchy & better to get people moving than waiting around at Kings Cross. Ive only end up being an hour later so no big deal (and delay repay!)

But, is it really the case in these situations that things change so quickly that at 6.20 they wouldn’t have known that they’d be running a train 40 mins later?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Critics of the IEP (800/801) contracts might like to reflect that this fault is down to Agility/Hitachi to solve at their expense, not that of the TOCs.
They will also not be paid for IEP diagrams that are not delivered because of the fault.
It will be more complicated for the 802 fleets (GWR/HT/TPE), depending on what was in the First Group contract for them, so those TOCs may take a cost hit.

 

[SouthWalesSam]

Time to book a cheapie Flexibus ticket as a standby option?

On the National Express I think!

 

[Domh245]

If they've known about it for a month, I wonder why they've stopped the show today ?

Except that as per some early posts in this thread, it isn't the yaw-damper brackets that they've known about for several weeks, but a new issue with jacking points. It would have been odd (to say the least) for them to sit on it for weeks on end and then suddenly pull everything overnight. It's certainly not helpful that there was a similar (and potentially vaguely related) issue recently as it does seem to have confused many on here (and those doing media briefings!)

 

[Horizon22]

Except that as per some early posts in this thread, it isn't the yaw-damper brackets that they've known about for several weeks, but a new issue with jacking points. It would have been odd (to say the least) for them to sit on it for weeks on end and then suddenly pull everything overnight. It's certainly not helpful that there was a similar (and potentially vaguely related) issue recently as it does seem to have confused many on here (and those doing media briefings!)

It’s also borderline conspiracy theory. Suggesting that because elections were running that might put the incumbent in a bad light, they would delay addressing a situation that would be detrimental to passenger safety.

 

[yorksrob]

Except that as per some early posts in this thread, it isn't the yaw-damper brackets that they've known about for several weeks, but a new issue with jacking points. It would have been odd (to say the least) for them to sit on it for weeks on end and then suddenly pull everything overnight. It's certainly not helpful that there was a similar (and potentially vaguely related) issue recently as it does seem to have confused many on here (and those doing media briefings!)

That would explain it.

 

[DominicFindlay]

This isn't really possible to fix with new parts per se - it's the actual bodyshell which is damaged.

What can be done to fix it then??

What are jacking points?

 

[bengley]

What can be done to fix it then??

Cut out the cracked areas and weld on a newly designed mounting area/jacking point I suspect. But welding with aluminium isn't easy, so it's not going to be an easy fix.

 

[popeter45]

If this ends up being a long term problem what is there available to cover them?
I assume LNER can pull most of the 91's back but are there enough HST's still in working order for there diesel routes and for GWR?

 

[stuartl]

Is this design in use in other countries ? If so have they reported similar problems ?

 

[A0wen]

Can't beat proper British engineering. Hitachi should stick to transistor radios

A stupid comment. I recall the whole 321 fleet BR built being stood down for similar reasons.

The 800s are of course built in Britain.

And Hitachi haven't built consumer electronics for some years now having moved out of that market. They are one of the world's largest enginering companies.

 

[LIMA66]

Are there any 321's around to substitute on the ECML like last time

Plenty at Newport at the mo…..

 

[swt_passenger]

What can be done to fix it then??

What are jacking points?

Strengthened area where the jacks locate to lift a single vehicle or a whole train. Usually at solebar level.

 

[yorksrob]

Plenty at Newport at the mo…..

In one piece ?!

 

[Deepgreen]

I'm disappointed that modern technology could not have modelled stresses better to make this sort of unexpected failure a thing of the past. This seems akin to the 1950s DH Comet fatigues when all they had was a tank of water!

 

[LIMA66]

In one piece ?!

I doubt it.

Another 321 left GA and went to Wabtec Doncaster yesterday.

 

[AdamWW]

It will be rather less than 0.1% of the population that are affected.

It doesn't work like that though, does it?

If these flaws hadn't been caught and had led to a fatal accident, it would have directly affected a far, far smaller of the population than that. But it would still have been big news, the government would have made statements etc.

Critics of the IEP (800/801) contracts might like to reflect that this fault is down to Agility/Hitachi to solve at their expense, not that of the TOCs.
They will also not be paid for IEP diagrams that are not delivered because of the fault.
It will be more complicated for the 802 fleets (GWR/HT/TPE), depending on what was in the First Group contract for them, so those TOCs may take a cost hit.

I don't suppose anyone can answer this because if someone actually knows the answer they probably can't say, but it would be interesting to know if Hitachi's liability is limited to the cost of repairs and not getting payment for units that can't run, or if they also have any liability for the consequential costs. (E.g. people not travelling when trains are back in service because they drove on the way out, or deciding not to use the train in future because they've been given the impression that GWR are happy to strand someone away from home so long as they give them a refund).