Should restrictions be eased fully if Indian Variant case rates do not decline before June 21st?

[kez19]

And "one million"? Where's the credibility for that - remembering that I've already acknowledged that they legitimately claimed a large crowd?

English Votes for English Laws was suspended a year ago - and may well be scrapped.


So how have you tried to hold them accountable? And those whom you trust - how do you hold them accountable?

Umm how do I hold anyone accountable? Why you asking me?

Broadcasters be OFCOM but what’s the point? They’ll defend them?

Our MPs? Oh right you can’t as it’s all for themselves (yet I bet the COVID excuse still is being used, can’t meet or talk and all that, pathetic really) so even that is pointless, so who do I go to then?

Just to add then since I’m based in Scotland regardless of who my MPs are they wouldn’t care as long as they not held to account? Recently in Scotland supposedly Jeane Freeman knew what she was doing and the same as Sturgeon during this, what happened? That’s right Sturgeon “took her eye off the ball” (media silence - what no questioning her accountability here?), Jeane Freeman resigns pre election (she was in charge), but again accountability zilch, media again zilch, just a brief expose of it and swept under. No accountability anywhere

Exactly this, I’ve completely lost faith in the politicians and the media, the goal posts keep shifting around, in America there has at least been opposition from the Republicans as they opened up their states early, now Democrat states have opened up, sadly with the lack of opposition from Labour who are even worse than The Tories in terms of restrictions, it feels that we live in a one party state at this point.

yet no one seems to batten an eyelid ?

Yet people are quick to blame those that are anti whatever yet if people looked at this more these and many questions need answered.

My questions above is not only aimed at the UK Government level but even for me in Scotland but still we must trust them all…oh dear!

 

[quantinghome]

Wikipedia mentions the protests on the 29th May in London had hundreds of thousands so that does back up what you say. Of course Wikipedia may not be reliable. From the media however you would either not known they existed or would have thought they were just a small bunch of conspiracy theorists.

Whatever your view of the measures, a protest of hundreds of thousands is pretty significant and so should be pretty news worthy. Assuming there were that many protestors, the fact such a protest was hardly reported does seem somewhat questionable.

It was 'only' reported on ITV, Guardian, Reuters and Metro, who reported tens of thousands of protesters. Of course many protesters would be anti-lockdown, not anti-vax, but as one of the protest leaders was Piers Corbyn it's not much of a surprise to see the protesters characterised as conspiracy theorists.

Interestingly the claim that the BBC quoted only 350 protesters is itself a fake: The BBC did not claim 350 people attended anti-lockdown protests - Full Fact

 

[35B]

Wikipedia mentions the protests on the 29th May in London had hundreds of thousands so that does back up what you say. Of course Wikipedia may not be reliable. From the media however you would either not known they existed or would have thought they were just a small bunch of conspiracy theorists.

Whatever your view of the measures, a protest of hundreds of thousands is pretty significant and so should be pretty news worthy. Assuming there were that many protestors, the fact such a protest was hardly reported does seem somewhat questionable.

The sources quoted only say “thousands”.

Umm how do I hold anyone accountable? Why you asking me?

Broadcasters be OFCOM but what’s the point? They’ll defend them?

Our MPs? Oh right you can’t as it’s all for themselves (yet I bet the COVID excuse still is being used, can’t meet or talk and all that, pathetic really) so even that is pointless, so who do I go to then?

Just to add then since I’m based in Scotland regardless of who my MPs are they wouldn’t care as long as they not held to account? Recently in Scotland supposedly Jeane Freeman knew what she was doing and the same as Sturgeon during this, what happened? That’s right Sturgeon “took her eye off the ball” (media silence - what no questioning her accountability here?), Jeane Freeman resigns pre election (she was in charge), but again accountability zilch, media again zilch, just a brief expose of it and swept under. No accountability anywhere





yet no one seems to batten an eyelid ?

Yet people are quick to blame those that are anti whatever yet if people looked at this more these and many questions need answered.

My questions above is not only aimed at the UK Government level but even for me in Scotland but still we must trust them all…oh dear!

So how do you share your views with you elected representatives? How do you use your power as a consumer with media companies?

 

[birchesgreen]

Try being a barista who is worried about paying rent and bills! If people stopped going to these cafes and coffee shops then those staff would be unemployed have you thought about that?

Hmm yes i can see people deciding to return to long expensive commutes as it will keep strangers in jobs.

 

[NorthOxonian]

Hmm yes i can see people deciding to return to long expensive commutes as it will keep strangers in jobs.

I agree it's unlikely that they'll return to those commutes. But if those same people are moaning in a few years' time that Central London is a ghost town, then they'll only have themselves to blame.

 

[birchesgreen]

I agree it's unlikely that they'll return to those commutes. But if those same people are moaning in a few years' time that Central London is a ghost town, then they'll only have themselves to blame.

Such is life though isn't it and an example of change, i know that my local area has had a number of new cafes open over the last year.

I suspect Central London could survive without as many Prets

 

[NorthKent1989]

Hmm yes i can see people deciding to return to long expensive commutes as it will keep strangers in jobs.

Ignoring the sarcasm, That wasn’t the point I was making, but there is a cause and effect is there not and it’s nice to think of those not in a good position as others are is it not?

 

[Jamesrob637]

Will people even have the disposable income to spend in said places though?

Ah, I see there is a separate thread for spending after the pandemic. Mods, could you please move this and associated posts over? Thanks!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Such is life though isn't it and an example of change, i know that my local area has had a number of new cafes open over the last year.

I suspect Central London could survive without as many Prats

Corrected that emboldened word for you.....

 

[Failed Unit]

At the moment the death rate from Covid is about the same as people losing their life in road traffic collisions - daily. Should we not be stopping people using motor vehicles or is it OK to die on the roads but not because of Covid?

At least by September, all or nearly all 1st and 2nd jabs will have been administered. September could therefore be safer than July to fully unlock.

As the new case figures have exceeded ELEVEN thousand today, I think the July unlock is looking doubtful now.

Covid-19 in the UK: How many coronavirus cases are there in my area? - BBC News

Should I be bothered about 11k positive tests? We need to learn to live with this. I would rather die of COVID then live like this.

 

[birchesgreen]

Ignoring the sarcasm, That wasn’t the point I was making, but there is a cause and effect is there not and it’s nice to think of those not in a good position as others are is it not?

There sure is but i don't think its something people think about in these situations.

 

[quantinghome]

At the moment the death rate from Covid is about the same as people losing their life in road traffic collisions - daily. Should we not be stopping people using motor vehicles or is it OK to die on the roads but not because of Covid?

That comparison only works if we could guarantee that the death rate from COVID will stay at its current level. But that's not how viruses work. The concern is that we may well be at the start of an exponential increase in people dying as we haven't yet achieved herd immunity. The next two-three weeks will show us whether the vaccine has broken the link between cases and deaths.

 

[Ianno87]

There sure is but i don't think its something people think about in these situations.

Sadly true. Most people it is (in the nicest way) a selfish decision - the cost and convenience of your commute. Especially if you can now spend more time in the evenings with family.

 

[kez19]

The sources quoted only say “thousands”.


So how do you share your views with you elected representatives? How do you use your power as a consumer with media companies?

You tell me? You seem to have an answer for everything so go on tell me who I should contact and how it works?

let me think do my MPs actually visit my area, umm no, are there offices open? Possibly not, do they represent me and my views of course not (only interested in themselves and vanity projects), so in short nope.

Media: why what use is complaining to BBC or Sky let alone OFCOM? As I said OFCOM would say media is right regardless so anything that’s possibly misinformed goes unchecked but still though let’s have a go at sources elsewhere as of course they peddle lies more to those at the BBC I guess.

Unrelated I complained once to MTV, did I get a reply? No but I’m sure that’s the stance regardless of media they’ll either reply or not, but I can see if I was to complain it be just a pre packaged reply so why bother? They simply don’t care regardless of views.

 

[philosopher]

There sure is but i don't think its something people think about in these situations.

Individuals of course are entitled to do what is best for themselves, within reason. However the government should be assessing the impact, both short and long term of their actions. Telling office workers that they should not visit the office, discouraging public transport use and making it almost impossible for overseas tourists to visit the UK does create a long term risk that city centres will become run down. Many lower income people living in cities may not have the luxury of being able to move so easily.

 

[Bantamzen]

Individuals of course are entitled to do what is best for themselves, within reason. However the government should be assessing the impact, both short and long term of their actions. Telling office workers that they should not visit the office, discouraging public transport use and making it almost impossible for overseas tourists to visit the UK does create a long term risk that city centres will become run down. Many lower income people living in cities may not have the luxury of being able to move so easily.

It's not just that risk, people often forget that all those public services they have access don't just magically pay for themselves. They need tax revenue to keep them going, lose that and you put critical services at both local and national levels. There's been a bit of focus today on how Whitehall might be drafting up a paper on longer term restrictions. Well that will only be partially true, it will be one part of Whitehall working on that.

In another part there will be civil servants looking glumly at cost and revenue forecasts and wondering how the hell they are going to break the news to ministers.

 

[Failed Unit]

That comparison only works if we could guarantee that the death rate from COVID will stay at its current level. But that's not how viruses work. The concern is that we may well be at the start of an exponential increase in people dying as we haven't yet achieved herd immunity. The next two-three weeks will show us whether the vaccine has broken the link between cases and deaths.

So tell my they are not doing much differently to in France, Germany, Italy to UK, in fact they have more freedom then we do. Why is this? Does the virus only attack UK citizens?

One thing is certain I am going to die at some point. If it is of Covid so be it, but it will get me whether I hide away from it or not, so I would rather get on with my life and if it gets me at least I will ahve enjoyed what is left of my life rather than the current situation where we are going around in masks and not bieng able to socailise with anyone. If the last 18 months is how we live our lives please Covid I am here, take me, and do it quickly. As one thing for is for certain Covid is going nowhere - Viruses don't just give up.

 

[quantinghome]

So tell my they are not doing much differently to in France, Germany, Italy to UK, in fact they have more freedom then we do. Why is this? Does the virus only attack UK citizens?

One thing is certain I am going to die at some point. If it is of Covid so be it, but it will get me whether I hide away from it or not, so I would rather get on with my life and if it gets me at least I will ahve enjoyed what is left of my life rather than the current situation where we are going around in masks and not bieng able to socailise with anyone. If the last 18 months is how we live our lives please Covid I am here, take me, and do it quickly. As one thing for is for certain Covid is going nowhere - Viruses don't just give up.

Oh please spare us the histrionics. Most restrictions have already been lifted. What's stopping you socialising at the moment? And masks - yes they're annoying but they are hardly a major imposition.

The vaccine is effective against the virus. In a few weeks the rollout will have reached enough people so that, hopefully, the Covid risk is reduced to levels typical of other hazards (such as road traffic, or flu) and that will allow the few remaining restrictions to be removed.

 

[3141]

let me think do my MPs actually visit my area, umm no, are there offices open? Possibly not, do they represent me and my views of course not (only interested in themselves and vanity projects), so in short nope.

Have you actually checked whether your MP visits your area and found that he/she does not? The MPs in the areas I've lived in hold regular local surgeries (at least in normal times). Your MP does represent you, though not necessarily your views if yours are different from theirs. "Only interested in themselves and vanity projects" isn't true of most.

 

[NorthKent1989]

Oh please spare us the histrionics. Most restrictions have already been lifted. What's stopping you socialising at the moment? And masks - yes they're annoying but they are hardly a major imposition.

The vaccine is effective against the virus. In a few weeks the rollout will have reached enough people so that, hopefully, the Covid risk is reduced to levels typical of other hazards (such as road traffic, or flu) and that will allow the few remaining restrictions to be removed.

You really think it’s that simple don’t you? I wonder where I heard this line of thinking before? That’s right get enough people vaccinated then we can have freedom day on the 21st June! Oh wait…. The goal posts have moved yet again!

Meanwhile just before Boris made the announcement he and his world leader pals weren’t socially distanced, not wearing masks, having a good old jolly time down in Cornwall.

You can see why many of us are sick to death of this complete farce, whether it’s histrionic or not @Failed Unit is completely correct and has a valid point, we cannot avoid death, every day is a risk and a chance we may not make it back home for the 6pm news, my aunt had a bike accident last year, luckily she survived and is now much better but the car that hit her could have killed her, Covid is part of our lives no amount of restrictions or lockdowns can change that.

Meanwhile, was it necessary to belittle what someone is going through as being ‘histrionic’ just because you maybe having a grand time doesn’t mean others can cope as easily, mental health is fragile.

 

[Failed Unit]

Oh please spare us the histrionics. Most restrictions have already been lifted. What's stopping you socialising at the moment? And masks - yes they're annoying but they are hardly a major imposition.

The vaccine is effective against the virus. In a few weeks the rollout will have reached enough people so that, hopefully, the Covid risk is reduced to levels typical of other hazards (such as road traffic, or flu) and that will allow the few remaining restrictions to be removed.

The law.
But you can put “stop the histrionics“ on my grave stone. I cant take this any longer. Cant meet indoor because you need a mask. Have a medical reason not to? random stranger will soon give you abuse.

anyway. Goodbye. You can put my death down to COVID if it makes you feel better. I have had enough.

 

[hst43102]

In a few weeks the rollout will have reached enough people so that, hopefully, the Covid risk is reduced to levels typical of other hazards (such as road traffic, or flu)

It already has, in fact I think the death rate has been lower than the pre-lockdown death rate for road accidents.

 

[NorthKent1989]

yet no one seems to batten an eyelid ?

Yet people are quick to blame those that are anti whatever yet if people looked at this more these and many questions need answered.

My questions above is not only aimed at the UK Government level but even for me in Scotland but still we must trust them all…oh dear!

It’s far easier to make a scapegoat out of an ordinary citizen than it is to make one out of an elected leader, the leader can spin it so he can blame one group and call them ‘anti this that and the other’ and people will believe it and sadly it seems a fair few on this thread think that

 

[hst43102]

You really think it’s that simple don’t you? I wonder where I heard this line of thinking before? That’s right get enough people vaccinated then we can have freedom day on the 21st June! Oh wait…. The goal posts have moved yet again!

Meanwhile just before Boris made the announcement he and his world leader pals weren’t socially distanced, not wearing masks, having a good old jolly time down in Cornwall.

Glad it's not just me that noticed that!

Image shows G7 leaders and associated family watching a Red Arrows flypast. No masks or social distancing whatsoever.

 

[NorthKent1989]

Glad it's not just me that noticed that!

I won’t ever forget the image of the so called elite quite literally mocking us!

Mocking those whose lives, mental health and businesses they’ve destroyed.

 

[initiation]

. In a few weeks the rollout will have reached enough people so that, hopefully, the Covid risk is reduced to levels typical of other hazards (such as road traffic, or flu) and that will allow the few remaining restrictions to be removed.

We were told it was just three weeks to save the NHS, then 12 weeks, then September, the Christmas, then February, Easter, June and now July. It is not 'just' 4 more weeks.

Oh please spare us the histrionics. Most restrictions have already been lifted. What's stopping you socialising at the moment? And masks - yes they're annoying but they are hardly a major imposition.

I'm sorry to say, but why are you so selfish? OK I am guessing in your life you can carry on pretty much as normal but there are many activities that I normally, but cannot currently do. From hobbies to travelling to organising a birthday party. Then tens of thousands of businesses are still banned from opening entirely or operating profitable. Millions of people with families abroad are essentially banned from visiting them. This is not just about being grateful that the Government have permitted us to go to the pub with 5 other people.

 

[quantinghome]

The law.
But you can put “stop the histrionics“ on my grave stone. I cant take this any longer. Cant meet indoor because you need a mask. Have a medical reason not to? random stranger will soon give you abuse.

anyway. Goodbye. You can put my death down to COVID if it makes you feel better. I have had enough.

Hey, I'm sorry for my words - they were unnecessarily antagonistic.

Do you know you can already meet and socialise indoors? You only need a mask on the way in - once seated in a cafe or pub you can take it off. If you have a medical reason for not wearing a mask you're very very unlikely to receive abuse.

I would be very surprised if restrictions aren't lifted on 19th July. We've been through so much but we're nearly there - and to re-emphasise, most restrictions are already lifted. For all the concern we've got about the final restrictions being removed we are in a far far better place than back in January.

 

[3141]

It already has, in fact I think the death rate has been lower than the pre-lockdown death rate for road accidents.

Comparing the "death rate" from Covid with the death rate from road accidents doesn't tell us anything useful. Road accidents aren't infectious. If you look at the number of deaths the most recent weekly figure for Covid is 78, and in recent years the number of deaths per week from road accidents has been about 35.

 

[yorkie]

Labour are the party of bringing in lockdowns early before the virus gets a grip, so restrictions don't have to go on for as long, rather than dithering and making matters orders of magnitude worse.

Yeah, and that worked well for countries like the Czech Republic, didn't it?

Labour are the party of competent test, trace and support systems run by local authority health professionals rather than dodgy contracts to Ministers' mates

Test & Trace is overrated in my opinion and this is a hypothetical argument. I don't really see the need to get into a hypothetical argument regarding whether Labour would have done a better job, at least not in this thread. If you really want that hypothetical argument, feel free to create a new thread, but we will never be able to reach a conclusion.

Labour are the party of funding catch-up education properly in line with other advanced countries.

Are you suggesting you want to force teachers to work longer days and/or work during the holidays? Again you should make this argument in a new thread as it's a whole new topic.

Schools should never have closed; they closed because of the pressure put on Labour voting type people who demanded schools closed. Of course the Tories are to blame for the decision but Labour are hardly innocent.

Labour are the party of a global vaccination programme so everyone is protected,

If you think Labour's vaccination programme would be better than the Tories, feel free to create a new thread.

international travel can resume

It will resume with or without Labour's involvement

and we don't get more variants in the future.

This is an absurd argument. The virus is evolving through natural selection processes to increase its fitness in humans. This process cannot be prevented. Mutations are inevitable.

Comparing the "death rate" from Covid with the death rate from road accidents doesn't tell us anything useful. Road accidents aren't infectious. If you look at the number of deaths the most recent weekly figure for Covid is 78, and in recent years the number of deaths per week from road accidents has been about 35.

But immunity from Coronaviruses against serious illnesses is excellent; there is no way to gain immunity from road accidents. Your argument is utterly flawed.

Hey, I'm sorry for my words - they were unnecessarily antagonistic.

Glad you have apologised; unfortunately many people do not understand the serious mental health issues that can arise from the mandating of masks and the way some people have been excluded from full participation in society in the past year.

Do you know you can already meet and socialise indoors? You only need a mask on the way in - once seated in a cafe or pub you can take it off. If you have a medical reason for not wearing a mask you're very very unlikely to receive abuse.

Some people will dish abuse to anyone who is not wearing a lanyard but not everyone wants to be labelled and not everyone can cope with the anxiety of being challenged.

I would be very surprised if restrictions aren't lifted on 19th July. We've been through so much but we're nearly there - and to re-emphasise, most restrictions are already lifted. For all the concern we've got about the final restrictions being removed we are in a far far better place than back in January.

Given all vulnerable people who wanted to be vaccinated have been, there is no justification for restrictions to continue for 4 more weeks.

Oh please spare us the histrionics. Most restrictions have already been lifted. What's stopping you socialising at the moment? And masks - yes they're annoying but they are hardly a major imposition.

For most people they are not, but some people suffer from anxieties which means they are.

The vaccine is effective against the virus.

I agree, therefore there is no justification for restrictions to continue. Those who think restrictions should continue are denying the effectiveness of the vaccine in my opinion.

In a few weeks the rollout will have reached enough people so that, hopefully, the Covid risk is reduced to levels typical of other hazards (such as road traffic, or flu) and that will allow the few remaining restrictions to be removed.

If you look at the age profile of those who have died or become seriously ill, you will see it is incredibly biased towards older people, but they have already been offered the vaccine. Those who have chosen not to be vaccinated who are eligible for one have made a very poor choice in my opinion but we cannot allow them to hold us back.

At the moment the death rate from Covid is about the same as people losing their life in road traffic collisions - daily. Should we not be stopping people using motor vehicles or is it OK to die on the roads but not because of Covid?

Our culture and society deem road deaths to be acceptable, it's as simple as that. I don't see how anyone can deny that.

 

[317 forever]

That comparison only works if we could guarantee that the death rate from COVID will stay at its current level. But that's not how viruses work. The concern is that we may well be at the start of an exponential increase in people dying as we haven't yet achieved herd immunity. The next two-three weeks will show us whether the vaccine has broken the link between cases and deaths.

It is not surprising that we have not yet achieved herd immunity. We still have around 1/3 of vaccination doses to administer, admittedly more 2nd than 1st doses.