You say that almost like you think that moving to a low-carbon economy is a bad thing.
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Brexit matters
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nlogax
Established Member
The world is being 'weaned off' hydrocarbons. Good. The government is not weaning anyone off meat. Quit with the lies and maybe come in from the cold and drop your warped perception of reality.
REVUpminster
Member
Arthur Scargill was not keen. Margaret Thatcher must have had real foresight and should be the darling of the ECO warriors.
The production practices of meat suppliers create over half of their carbon dioxide (CO2) emissions. Whether you are eating farm-to-table or processed meat, the on-farm systems are nearly the same. Raising animals takes energy and resources that cause environmental degradation.
Raising livestock and fish contributes 31% to our total GHG emissions.
But what do you think?
py_megapixel
Established Member
Yes. People were weaned off coal because better technologies and fuels came along to replace it. Similarly I don't think anyone would be lining up now to swap their LED lighting for oil-burning lamps.
If a new technology is good enough, it will eventually reach a tipping point where for almost everyone it makes more sense than the old one, and new will start to replace old. If we considered every such large-scale superseding of one thing by another to be some cynical government ploy then it would be impossible for society to advance.
And of course, if everyone who was able to consumed slightly less meat, there's nothing wrong with that - in fact by most measures it would be a good thing.
nlogax
Established Member
Indeed. The way that changes such as these happen in any widespread fashion is for people to make their own minds up about these sorts of things in order to want to do them. Which is exactly what's happening.
REVUpminster
Member
So is it the consumers choice to reduce salt and sugar content in food? No that is the government weaning us off substances deemed harmful. Would MacDonalds have introduced a veggie burger if it were not so?
Seat belts, Smoking in public places, alcohol bans are all in place to make up our minds. Raising the marriage age to 18 is our next protection in the pipeline. The EU has never tried to harmonise the age of consent that varies in the EU and the rest of Europe although the Netherlands raised the age of pornographic content of the performers from 16 to 18 in the 90s to comply with EU harmonisation.
nlogax
Established Member
McDonald's introduced veg-based products because they recognised a sizeable market of people turning away from meat. People started doing that because they'd made their own minds up.
The rest of your post is utterly incoherent.
py_megapixel
Established Member
Yes. Because when presented, for example, in a supermarket with full-sugar and low-sugar tomato ketchup, clearly enough people will choose the reduced sugar version to make it worthwhile for Heinz to produce, distribute and sell. If products aren't commercially viable they are removed from the market.
Contrary to what you seem to believe, people do genuinely care about making choices better for both their health and the environment.
McDonalds have had vegetarian offerings for years now, have them in countries other than the United Kingdom, and almost certainly introduced them simply because people were turning away from meat by their own choice and they wanted to keep up with their competitors, not as part of some hypothetical secret government plot. Nobody is trying to wean us off meat, and even if they were it would probably be good for us. So can you please take the tinfoil hat off for a moment and look at what is really happening.
About what, exactly? That seat belts, on average, reduce the danger in a road traffic collision; and that having to breathe other peoples' second-hand smoke is absolutely disgusting? Because they're right...
As for 'alcohol bans' what are you referring to exactly?
And what did this have to do with Brexit again?
AlterEgo
Veteran Member
Yeah they probably would. Vegetarian food is pretty popular in the UK, either for ethical or religious reasons.
notlob.divad
Established Member
- Joined
- 19 Jan 2016
- Messages
- 1,609
I take it you haven't been to Germany recently and seen the huge Solar and Wind farms that they have spread across the entire country.
Being present tense maybe
Been past tense absolutely not.
Otherwise the government wouldn't even be having a debate about opening a new coalmine in Cumbria. https://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/19351809.readers-split-coal-mine-protest-whitehaven/
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A lot actually, as in these misguided views are very much that of someone who voted leave without understanding the reality.
That nasty EU that that dares to interfere to protect underage children from exploitation in the porn industry
REVUpminster
Member
I voted for the EC in 1975 but against the EU in 2016, despite tory, labour and the media all for remain. The remainers lost and despite Teresa May's, the Labour opposition, the Speaker, and the media trying to reverse the result 50/60 MPs held out for another general election that, as remainers would say, a misguided electorate gave Boris Johnson the Tories the biggest majority since 1979. The remainers fight on a lost cause. Shadow chancellor Rachael Reeves is espousing policies that are incompatible with the EU but might sway the British voter to labour.
Then why have they not harmonised age of consent which is 14 in Germany, Italy, 15 in France to name some of the bigger countries. Ireland is 17.That nasty EU that that dares to interfere to protect underage children from exploitation in the porn industry
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Wait, I keep being told that member states aren't allowed to set their own rules for anything ever?
For the same reason each member state has its own laws on gay-rights, abortion and euthanasia: the EU reespects that every country has its own traditions and public opinion on these matters. It is no secret that - as an example - Poland is less open to these things than the Benelux countries and Scandinavia.
Besides: you do realise there is a huge difference between two 15 year olds experimenting and being in the sex industry?
class ep-09
Member
- Joined
- 5 Sep 2013
- Messages
- 526
I suppose, next you will tell us that you know, what you voted for despite having no idea what EU, is and what EU's competencies are ....
Also, to say that ALL MEDIA were for remain is just bonkers .
Almost everytime I end up talking to someone from the continent, they mention how they are moving back home soon because of Brexit.
It’s usually workmen around my house, or when I bump into fruit pickers / farm workers on my dog walks in the countryside where my dog always seems help to spark a conversation, as well as academics I’ve spoken to who work at the local university. While some may not be that bothered about moving back, some seem quite sad about having to move.
I think that’s a really sad consequence of Brexit really. I love living amongst people from various parts of the world and from different cultures, as it leads to interesting conversations. Of course, the strong nationalists hate mixing with ‘foreigners’ but I’d like to think those types are in the minority.
It’s usually workmen around my house, or when I bump into fruit pickers / farm workers on my dog walks in the countryside where my dog always seems help to spark a conversation, as well as academics I’ve spoken to who work at the local university. While some may not be that bothered about moving back, some seem quite sad about having to move.
I think that’s a really sad consequence of Brexit really. I love living amongst people from various parts of the world and from different cultures, as it leads to interesting conversations. Of course, the strong nationalists hate mixing with ‘foreigners’ but I’d like to think those types are in the minority.
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birchesgreen
Established Member
I used to think that too though these days i am not so sure.
I’m not so sure either, but was trying to be positive.
Some people really arnt obvious with it either. I know of some who really like foreigners - but feel they should remain ‘foreign’ and not live here.
brad465
Established Member
We must always have an "enemy", whether that enemy is the EU, covid, any other country/bloc or even other groups within our own country. If we don't have an enemy the population sees all the domestic failings our Government hasn't solved/improved.
We should also remember that we have more in common with the citizens of any other nation in the world than each nation has with its respective Government.
class ep-09
Member
- Joined
- 5 Sep 2013
- Messages
- 526
Spot on !!
The whole narrative of right wingers ( fascists) these days is : identify a minority that can be easily targeted , and convince the public that all set backs in their lives are their fault .
We had single mothers, teenage mothers, unemployed, benefit claimants, black people, east europeans ( or rather central europeans ) , EU, woke etc.
The gullible followers / believers will listen and blame everyone else but not the government.
Why confine it to 'right wingers' or 'these days'. With left wingers it is all the fault of Capitalists, shareholders, the rich, owners, the ruling classes, in fact anyone who has been successful. This has gone on for as long as society has existed.
I agree that the far left are just as bad at times (the political horseshoe) but they're usually demanding things like companies paying more tax, rather than rounding people up and sending them home, or shooting boats to sink them and drown refugees arriving along our coastline.
Anyway, I see we've found a solution to the shortage of lorry drivers.. we're just going to let them work more hours! Sorted!
While both liberal and conservative politicians are guilty of identifying a "them" who are responsible for the problems that affect "us", it is a technique that has been much more commonly and successfully employed by one side than the other. There are plenty of examples of right or far-right leaders ordering the round up and interment of "them" than there are of left or far-left ones forcing free healthcare or higher education down people's throats.
Do you really think that’s as bad as targeting vulnerable people or minorities?
Can’t see any serious issues as a result of that whatsoever
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class ep-09
Member
- Joined
- 5 Sep 2013
- Messages
- 526
By any means extreme right and left have a lot more in common that we think .
My point was that UK its press are predominantly far right wing , the party that they support is far right ( has been for some time but not alway I agree) and their agenda is one : keep power and blame everyone byt themselves for the ills of this country .
As for fascistic tendencies of the current lot , there are markers that describe it :
We are not there yet but …
PS : US was very close call .
SteveP29
Member
You couldn't be more wrong, like the result, virtually any group of people, including MP's and the media were split almost down the middle.
With the money to pay for the free healthcare and higher education coming from nowhere of course. Always popular to grab and spend other peoples money.
I think the technique of blame has been used over the last 200 years by all sides pretty equally.