E-ticket issuing preference questions

[yorkie]

This question is for people who like to get best value from their journeys by using a booking site that will issue a combination of tickets for the journey, and who choose to have their tickets issued in e-ticket format.

How would you like your e-tickets to be issued?

For a single journey, it's relatively straightforward; I like the way Trainsplit does it, for example if I book a journey from York to Cheltenham I may be issued Advance singles as follows:

York to Chesterfield
Chesterfield to Burton
Burton to Cheltenham

I would book through Trainsplit, which would probably save anything from £10 to £60 for a journey of that nature, and I would be issued with one PDF containing the above tickets.

I can easily scroll down from one ticket to the next, making it easy to show all relevant tickets to staff on request.

If delayed I can easily claim Delay Repay, by simply uploading the single PDF to the XC delay repay online form.

But what if I book a return from York to Cheltenham? I would probably be issued with the following return fares:

York to Sheffield
Sheffield to Derby
Derby to Birmingham
Birmingham to Cheltenham

Should I be issued:

• One PDF for all tickets?
• One PDF for each ticket (4 total)
• One PDF for each direction (2 total)

If I am issued one PDF, page 1 would be the outward portion of the first ticket, but would page 2 be the outward portion of the second ticket and so on, or would page 2 be the return portion of the first ticket?

An advantage of one PDF per direction is that it keeps everything for one direction in one place and everything for the other direction in one place.

Either way, there is the possibility for the order of the return journey could be the opposite of the outward, so that the tickets are displayed in the order in which they are used.

I can imagine on board staff being frustrated if the customer has each return ticket stored as a separate file, especially on the return leg where the files would need to be opened in 'reverse' order, and scrolled down to page 2.

Any thoughts on the pros and cons of any particular method are most welcome.

This forum is well read by the rail industry, so any views expressed here may well be taken into account by retailers

 

[CyrusWuff]

In an ideal world, an e-ticket would be completely independent of the individual segments it comprises, so all you'd get is a one-page PDF for each direction. Unfortunately, I suspect Rail Settlement Plan would balk at the very suggestion, particularly if mixing routes and ticket types!

As such, given the (current) requirement to issue individual tickets for each leg, I'd prefer to have one PDF for each direction for a Return journey, with the pages in the order they'd be used.

 

[Bletchleyite]

In an ideal world, an e-ticket would be completely independent of the individual segments it comprises, so all you'd get is a one-page PDF for each direction. Unfortunately, I suspect Rail Settlement Plan would balk at the very suggestion, particularly if mixing routes and ticket types!

As such, given the (current) requirement to issue individual tickets for each leg, I'd prefer to have one PDF for each direction for a Return journey, with the pages in the order they'd be used.

I agree with this view. Ideally it'd be issued as one e-ticket with one barcode, but as the tech doesn't support that I'd rather have a PDF file each way with the tickets in sequence as that eases showing them.

 

[WelshBluebird]

Could you not have it as an option for the user during checkout or on confirmation?

If I remember rightly, LNER already give you the option of getting all tickets as one PDF or splitting outbound and return for each passenger into its own PDF (so a return journey for two people gives you the option of one PDF for everything or four PDFs in total. Granted split ticketing is a bit more complex but I wouldn't think it is much more thinking to give the user some options at least!

Of course the more technical amongst us are probably already using PDF splitter and joiner apps anyway (I certainly am where some companies just give you one PDF without giving you the choice - which is a pain then when you have multiple passengers!).

 

[Bletchleyite]

I didn't think about multiple people. I think I'd put each person's ticket(s) as a separate PDF as it's best that they have it on their own device to show.

So a return journey for 2 people = 4 PDFs.

 

[roversfan2001]

I don't use e-tickets but if I did I'd say one PDF for each direction would be the best option out of the three.

 

[HughT]

Definitely need to allow for each passenger having their own PDF. Personally, I'd prefer one PDF per passenger for outbound and one for return. It goes without saying (no it doesn't!) that the tickets should be in order of travel. Rather like WelshBluebird I'd manipulate what I was given to achieve that objective, if need be. Since I haven't been on a train since March 2020 this is all a little theoretical right now...

 

[Nicholas43]

I prefer one downloadable file for each direction for each passenger. Preferably paged in the order of use. And an explicit statement that I can print them (because Murphy's Law applies to all devices).

 

[Blindtraveler]

Single PDF per direction of travel is what suits me best from an accessibility point of view although if I'm being brutally honest here, I much prefer the way that the Trainline app handles E tickets


I shan't go into the full reasoning here but as someone for who the e-ticket Revolution has vastly improved my Rail travel experience I'd be more than happy to discuss this privately

 

[Kilopylae]

I agree with this view. Ideally it'd be issued as one e-ticket with one barcode, but as the tech doesn't support that I'd rather have a PDF file each way with the tickets in sequence as that eases showing them.

Same. And, for what it's worth, this always how I used to store CCSTs - one blue wallet for each direction.

 

[maniacmartin]

I want one page with all the tickets and barcodes side by side, so I can print them on one sheet of paper.

 

[ABB125]

I want one page with all the tickets and barcodes side by side, so I can print them on one sheet of paper.

This - on the few occasions where I've used e-tickets in the past, the fact that it's very difficult to print them side-by-side has been incredibly infuriating (usually booked through CrossCountry, so the PDFs are long and thin).

If there was only one option, I'd definitely say one PDF per direction, with the tickets in the correct order.

In an ideal world, there would be a "customise" button on the website, whereby one could arrange the tickets however one liked, possibly using a "drag-and-drop"-type interface.

 

[maniacmartin]

A customise button is a big ask! I'd settle for 2 PDFs - one A4 with everything side by side, and another with one with the long thin PDF ticket pages in order of use.

 

[ABB125]

A customise button is a big ask!

I agree - but there's nothing wrong with being ambitious! (I admit it's never going to happen though)

I'd settle for 2 PDFs - one A4 with everything side by side, and another with one with the long thin PDF ticket pages in order of use.

Good compromise - I'd be happy with that. (Though I still would prefer orange tickets!)

 

[Hadders]

I'd there should be separate PDFs for each passenger. I suggest one PDF for the outward and one for the return with tickets displayed in the correct order.

 

[Randomer]

Single PDF for the whole journey is my preference. I'm not too bothered about the order but preferably split sensibly into pages with chapters to make finding them easier to quickly scroll to on my phone, so a chapter for outward and return for each passenger.

As in something like journeyto/from.pdf as a name with:
Chapter 1 Passenger 1 outbound (in order used on itinerary)
Chapter 2 Passenger 2 outbound (in order used on itinerary)
Continue as necessary.
Then Chapter 3 Passenger 1 return (in reverse order i.e. from destination back to origin)
Continue as necessary.

Has a few advantages to me:
- It makes it harder to forget to download the journey or perhaps one ticket especially when used in advance.
- Less likely to open the wrong file when required for inspection.
- I can share my ticket with the second passenger easily along the lines of send a single .pdf
- It is easy to say you are passenger 2 for the journey so they don't present the wrong ticket to be checked. Normally I would forward the booking email but then they can easily choose the wrong file.
- It makes it very easy to scroll to the right place on the pdf file as the chapters appear when you scroll using most mobile devices.

Personally I think a universal .pdf is a good default position (accessible across device types and easily printable) but would much prefer that it was able to be integrated into the most common smartphone type wallets i.e. Apple Wallet and Google Wallet integrated into the booking confirmation email with a "save to Google Wallet button" rather than having to remember to do it on the website itself. The Google Pay API already supports a system to group and save multiple transit passes for example (incidentally it also supports pushing live journey updates using those groups of passes to select real time journey update information which would also be very useful.)

Edit: added *whole and corrected example.

 

[typefish]

I purposefully install the e-tickets in my Apple Wallet in the order in which they need to be accessed - in order to facilitate easy scanning.

My flow is therefore this:

1) Load Apple Wallet
2) Find tickets
3) Swipe and scan until no more need to be scanned
4) Switch to the railcard app

If I'm relying on a PDF, I will just have a printout instead

 

[Cdd89]

PDF for the entire journey preferable for the additional reason that, with off peak returns, the return portion needs to be available for inspection when travelling the outbound portion (I think?). This is obviously less important with advances and splits but where it does apply it’s arguably a strong case.

 

[infobleep]

The order of tickets is a nice to have right now. I'd just like an e-ticket no matter what order!

Yet another journey made with no e-ticket option. This time Guildford to Oxford return with a mixture of singles. Not exactly out of the way stations I also couldn't get a plus bus ticket from Trainsplit so had to go to the station

In a nice to have world, I think having them in order would be good. So start to destination and then destination back to start.

This only works if you have an itinerary or they guess your order. Maybe it's only possible to buy such tickets with an itinerary.

 

[yorkie]

I'd there should be separate PDFs for each passenger. I suggest one PDF for the outward and one for the return with tickets displayed in the correct order.

Yes, that's my thought too

I didn't mention what to do about multiple passengers but I agree each passenger should be provided their own.

PDF for the entire journey preferable for the additional reason that, with off peak returns, the return portion needs to be available for inspection when travelling the outbound portion (I think?). This is obviously less important with advances and splits but where it does apply it’s arguably a strong case.

When on my outward portion, I've only ever had the return portion inspected once (and that was under a very unusual set of circumstances back in GNER days); as long as the return portion is available in the very unlikely event it is requested, I personally don't see an issue if it's contained within a separate PDF.

But it's an interesting aspect to consider, even if almost entirely hypothetical.

 

[Wallsendmag]

I cant see it mattering much longer to be honest. The move towards single leg pricing has begun.

 

[Kite159]

For tickets solely formed of advances, I would prefer one PDF issued per direction, be it with a single ticket or multiple tickets on that PDF.

That way it's easier to submit for delay repay and if you don't get delayed you can delete the download at the end of the journey.

 

[retsim]

I've never consider printing them out. I always just show them on my phone, generally in the app for whatever company issued them. It gets most complicated when you've purchased different parts of the journey from different companies.

But if I was going to do so, I'd prefer one series of screens per journey.

Half the time the staff don't seem to want to wait around and see the rest of the tickets, anyway!

 

[wellhouse]

One PDF per passenger in each direction seems favourite, but just wondering what happens when (as on a recent journey, so not hypothetical) there is a mix of open singles, advance singles, and an off-peak day return (with the return to be discarded) in each direction

 

[ABB125]

I've just bought some "manual split" tickets from GWR, as e-tickets. All have been issued in one pdf, though in out1 - rtn1 - out2 - rtn2 order rather than a more useful out1 - out2 - rtn2 - rtn1. I can't really complain about this though, because GWR's system isn't built for split ticketing (but I do get Nectar points... )

This compares favourably to the few occasions when I've bought e-tickets from CrossCountry, where each portion of each ticket is a separate pdf (ie: one pdf for out1, one pdf for rtn1 etc etc), though it's been about a year since I last bought e-tickets from XC, so they may have changed their system.

I still prefer proper tickets though!

 

[trebor79]

Slight digression, but what is the advantage of a PDF e-ticket (either displayed on a screen or printed out) over a piece of orange cardboard?

 

[mikeg]

Main advantage is that if you damage or misplace the ticket you can print a new one. Advantage for the booking sites is it's cheaper to issue, also means the industry can track you (i personally don't like the last part but still book them where I would be doing things online anyway)

I only print etickets on long journeys where my phone battery has a chance of suffering.

 

[CrispyUK]

You can also purchase them on your phone, for example whilst sat on the bus on the way to the station, then head straight for the train when you arrive rather than having to queue for a ticket office or ticket machine, helpful if the station is busy and/or you’ve got a tight connection.

 

[XAM2175]

Slight digression, but what is the advantage of a PDF e-ticket (either displayed on a screen or printed out) over a piece of orange cardboard?

Most importantly )) , their adoption hastens the coming of the day when the industry no longer needs to pay to maintain magnetic-stripe equipment.

 

[infobleep]

Most importantly )) , their adoption hastens the coming of the day when the industry no longer needs to pay to maintain magnetic-stripe equipment.

It might be some time before that happens. Surface to say I still haven't brought an e-ticket since before the first lockdown.

I won't go further on this as it will stray too off-topic.