LNER Class 91/Mk4 service status/withdrawals/2021 refurbishment

[Rhydgaled]

Yes the only thing “old” is the box-like front, which does look very slightly dated compared to the current designs.

However from an interior point of view there is absolutely nothing wrong with a Mk4. I for one would pick one over an IEP.

I don't think the fronts look box-like at all (except the blunt end of a 91) and 91110 (and the 'good side' of 91119) when coupled right-way-round to mark 4s is the best-looking thing on the network (except perhaps some steam locos) right now if you ask me. If you ask me the 800/801/802 has more of a looks problem than the IC225 - perhaps 'dated' isn't the right word, but the non-plug doors give a slightly cheap-and-nasty look to them rather than the sleek appearance they would have had if plug doors had been used (I also don't like the shape of the yellow (or black on TPE 802s) - it makes the train look too narrow or something - but that could be fixed with a spot of repainting). The Sophia seats on the IEP trains are also awful, but again that could have been avoided.

 

[96tommy]

91101 looks to be sat failed in King's Cross. Went down from the office to have a look, a nice sight of 2x 91's side by side, not often you see that anymore!

 

[skyhigh]

I would guess that the cuttings at either end of Crimple Viaduct are probably the worst bits - especially the one at the Leeds end which has a sharp curve so a low speed restriction - the Pacers used to really screech on this bit!

To be honest the whole route has difficult points. It's definitely the worst route I sign. Burley Park is a particular bad spot. A HST slipped to a stand in the Harrogate bound direction, and it's not totally uncommon for Northern stoppers to slide straight through in the Leeds bound direction.

 

[bramling]

I don't think the fronts look box-like at all (except the blunt end of a 91) and 91110 (and the 'good side' of 91119) when coupled right-way-round to mark 4s is the best-looking thing on the network (except perhaps some steam locos) right now if you ask me. If you ask me the 800/801/802 has more of a looks problem than the IC225 - perhaps 'dated' isn't the right word, but the non-plug doors give a slightly cheap-and-nasty look to them rather than the sleek appearance they would have had if plug doors had been used (I also don't like the shape of the yellow (or black on TPE 802s) - it makes the train look too narrow or something - but that could be fixed with a spot of repainting). The Sophia seats on the IEP trains are also awful, but again that could have been avoided.

I don’t disagree with the above at all. Indeed the IC225 looking “dated” is perhaps only because they’re no longer what we are used to, which is often the way with things.

I completely agree that looking at it completely objectively the IEP looks more awkward. For some reason I find their appearance grates with me.

 

[800001]

91101 looks to be sat failed in King's Cross. Went down from the office to have a look, a nice sight of 2x 91's side by side, not often you see that anymore!

It's not failed and will/is running as 5D09 back to Neville Hill.

 

[96tommy]

It's not failed and will/is running as 5D09 back to Neville Hill.

Well not running fully capable traction motor wise...

 

[800001]

Well not running fully capable traction motor wise...

Again, that's not the issue for why the service was cancelled and went ecs. I can't post on here why this happened, but the train could of continued in service with the 3 traction motors in use.

 

[DanNCL]

Again, that's not the issue for why the service was cancelled and went ecs. I can't post on here why this happened, but the train could of continued in service with the 3 traction motors in use.

The officially given cancellation reason was a traction fault, not an operational incident.

Edit to add to this: the loco was declared a failure at Kings Cross because of a loss of power, but was later declared fit to move back to Neville Hill under its own power. Or at least that’s the official version of what happened, if it’s not what actually happened.

 

[Gordonman]

Again, that's not the issue for why the service was cancelled and went ecs. I can't post on here why this happened, but the train could of continued in service with the 3 traction motors in use.

Was it stock related?A problem was noticed at Shipley this morning and I was quite surprised 1A13 was not terminated at Leeds

 

[DarloRich]

Do we know if the class 91 diagrams shown on the group website are accurate? I have to make a trip up to Leeds this weekend

 

[DanNCL]

Do we know if the class 91 diagrams shown on the group website are accurate? I have to make a trip up to Leeds this weekend

The diagrams shown on the 225 group website are (subject to the usual disclaimers) usually 91 worked. There is an additional set on top of those listed on the diagrams out most days, it does have a set diagram but I can’t remember off the top of my head what it is.

Note that some services booked for 91s show on the LNER booking engine as Azuma operated, and likely vice versa too.

 

[800001]

Do we know if the class 91 diagrams shown on the group website are accurate? I have to make a trip up to Leeds this weekend

Saturday 7th
NL401
1A09, 1D09, 1A30, 1D27, 5Y14 to York

NL402
1A02, 1D06, 1A26, 1D17, 1A41 1D30

NL403
1Y00, 1D05, 1A25, 1D18, 1A43, 1D32

Sunday 8th
NL401
1A21, 1D14, 1A46, 1N36

NL402
1Y14, 1D13, 1A37, 1D28

NL403
1A26, 1D17, 1A43, 1D33

 

[Fuzzytop]

and the when there's a third weekday diagram, seems to be 1A09 (ex-Bradford), 1D09, 1A30, 1D21, 1A48, 1D33.

Not sure why but they seem to follow the diagrams more closely on Sundays rather than Saturdays. 1A43 is booked Mk4 (or at least according to 225 Group) but is often an Azuma, or cancelled altogether.

 

[800001]

and the when there's a third weekday diagram, seems to be 1A09 (ex-Bradford), 1D09, 1A30, 1D21, 1A48, 1D33.

Not sure why but they seem to follow the diagrams more closely on Sundays rather than Saturdays. 1A43 is booked Mk4 (or at least according to 225 Group) but is often an Azuma, or cancelled altogether.

The weekdays 1A09 diagrams is NL402, however lately they are struggling to get 3 mk4s in service, so an Azuma covers, and that's the only diagrams that gets the Azuma back to Neville Hill on a night, rather than stabling at York.

Current week day diagrams
NL401
1A13, 1D10 1A31, 1D23, 1A50, 1N36 Stables York

NL402 (covered by Azuma if mk4 short)
1A09, 1D09, 1A30, 1D21, 1A48, 1D33

NL403
1Y00, 1D06, 1A26, 1D17, 1A41, 1D30

 

[DarloRich]

thanks chaps!

 

[APT618S]

The weekdays 1A09 diagrams is NL402, however lately they are struggling to get 3 mk4s in service, so an Azuma covers, and that's the only diagrams that gets the Azuma back to Neville Hill on a night, rather than stabling at York.

Current week day diagrams
NL401
1A13, 1D10 1A31, 1D23, 1A50, 1N36 Stables York

NL402 (covered by Azuma if mk4 short)
1A09, 1D09, 1A30, 1D21, 1A48, 1D33

NL403
1Y00, 1D06, 1A26, 1D17, 1A41, 1D30

1A26 is a 5 car Azuma today (5th Aug) - 800208 and is getting cosy several minutes before departing Leeds.

 

[800001]

1A26 is a 5 car Azuma today (5th Aug) - 800208 and is getting cosy several minutes before departing Leeds.

Mk4 set taken out of use yesterday due to Pan replacement needed, as a result 800208 finished at York overnight and started out on 1Y00

 

[yorksrob]

7:15 cancelled out of Leeds today due to a train fault apparently.

 

[800001]

7:15 cancelled out of Leeds today due to a train fault apparently.

Brake fault on the loco, azuma replacing the diagram from Kings Cross

 

[yorksrob]

Brake fault on the loco, azuma replacing the diagram from Kings Cross

Ah cheers.

At least the next one's a long one !

As it turns out, the next service is also Mk 4's. There's a stroke of luck !

21:35 not a 225 tonight. Is this a Sunday thing or a one off ?

 

[DanNCL]

21:35 not a 225 tonight. Is this a Sunday thing or a one off ?

The 21:05 gets a 91 instead of the 21:35 on Sundays. Tonight 91110 was on the 21:05.

 

[yorksrob]

The 21:05 gets a 91 instead of the 21:35 on Sundays. Tonight 91110 was on the 21:05.

Oh cheers. I'll aim for that one next time.

 

[DanNCL]

A pair of Rail Operations Group 37s took a formation of 10 Mark 4s (from former sets BN16 and BN18) and two DVTs (82215 and 82222) from Worksop to Doncaster today for overhaul. These will return to service with LNER - a new 9 car set numbered NL16 will be made up from those vehicles, with DVT 82222 and TSOE 12202 becoming additional spare vehicles.

 

[Fuzzytop]

Good news to get an eighth set!

Wonder what the magic numbers of the coaches are, and whether any more are due?

 

[800001]

Good news to get an eighth set!

Wonder what the magic numbers of the coaches are, and whether any more are due?

No more due. Just the frankenstein set mentioned above to become NL16

 

[mvm03]

Frankenstein set

 

[Fuzzytop]

Overseen elsewhere that NL16 will be 12213 12428 12467 12433 12312 10315 11418 11318 11416.

Not sure how accurate given 12312 is the standard accessible from BN14 (I think?), and you'd expect a 112xx vehicle (first class with the staff area) in the consist.

 

[simon7929]

Talks are underway for 91s to be diagrammed North of York from the December timetable change.

 

[DanNCL]

Talks are underway for 91s to be diagrammed North of York from the December timetable change.

Excellent news!

 

[43 302]

Talks are underway for 91s to be diagrammed North of York from the December timetable change.

I highly doubt that, what on earth would the reasoning be? If so almost definitely not North of Newcastle.