Least successful new stations

[The Planner]

Interesting. Can I ask the reason/pretext offered, if any? (Or was it just that the bearded one just didn't want to stop at such secondary places?)

And do/did you agree with it?

It was more to stop it being overwhelmed with Solihull to New St commuters, so it had logic, especially as the Reading Newcastles are 4 car normally. Chiltern are there to provide the Birmingham traffic.

 

[Starmill]

Haven’t they been on a replacement bud service for the last 18 months?

The service has been reduced at points to save train crew diagrams yes, including currently, while some trains and some buses are running.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Interesting. Can I ask the reason/pretext offered, if any? (Or was it just that the bearded one just didn't want to stop at such secondary places?)

And do/did you agree with it?

It was more to do with heavy overcrowding on what was clearly a very attractive fast commuter train to Brum - squeezing out the longer distance travellers (or making them stand till seats were released) - for a small share of ORCATS revenue. Train services were pretty much patchy performance wise in any case , not just in the West Midlands.

There was a "clockface" timetable introduced not much later on the Worcester - Leamington via Snow Hill axis in partial compensation.

 

[Djgr]

Interesting. Can I ask the reason/pretext offered, if any? (Or was it just that the bearded one just didn't want to stop at such secondary places?)

And do/did you agree with it?

It wasn't the initial Operation Princess that caused this but the Mark 2 version replacement that the abject failure of the initial Operation Princess quickly required.

There were many other town and city casualties from this fiasco, who are still trying to recover their pre VCC rail services.

 

[P Binnersley]

I'm not sure where you get the idea that Kenilworth has no services from, given a train is leaving in around half an hour for Leamington Spa, and in 50 minutes for Nuneaton via Coventry. However, longer platforms would have cost more and been pretty fruitless as the CrossCountry services weren't ever going to be stopping anyway. You might not like the service the station has, and it's not amazing, but that's not the station's issue.

The business case for Kenilworth station was for 275,000 single trips/year (Warwickshire County Council Report).

In 2019/20 (its second year) it has 216,976 entrances/exits and would probably have been somewhere near the business case figure this year if it had not been for the pandemic.

 

[stephen rp]

What's the feeling about the recently-opened Worcestershire Parkway and Warrington West?

WAW was doing very well pre-Covid despite only having 2 tph instead of the 3 tph in the Northern franchise bid (and despite the eastbound trains not being well spaced).

The departure times from Lime St had already been changed to allow for the stop at WAW (so when the "other" local didn't stop it was waiting time at WAC). Then Northern came up with the daft idea of bringing the local out of Lime St before the Airport express and sending it USL from Wavertree Jn to LPY (two conflicting movements) to let the express past.

TPE have now published a draft timetable for next year when they take over Northern's airport express path - with extra stops at Urmston and Irlam to make up for the Manchester Recovery proposal to have only one local an hour between Manchester and Warrington - but without the stop at WAW. That could leave WAW with 2 tph (Liverpool-Warrington) and no through train to Manchester outside peak hours.

As Network Rail insisted the station was "third party funded" that's a £20m station, publicly funded, where NR and the TOCs between them can't even promise to fulfil the service that justified the business case. In fact it seems someone could build a station for Great British Railways with no guarantee that any train would call there.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Edinburgh Gateway. Due to scaling back the E&G electrification, it's perennially deserted.

At £41m is it the most expensive least used new station?

Oh and Reston at £20m will be a good candidate for 2nd place soon.

 

[Revaulx]

I always thought that line had a lot of potential as it is classic commuter territory. Also the buses from Flixton, Urmston etc can be very slow into Manchester. I suppose the Liverpool expresses get in the way of more frequent stopping services and nobody will want more trains across Castlefield junction.

The all stations stopping service from Oxford Road to Warrington Central got decimated when the trans-Pennines were diverted onto the CLC.

When the number of expresses got reduced as a result of sending more stuff via Chat Moss, locals were hoping the stopping service would be improved. This hasn’t happened because of the scarcity of Castlefield paths.

One solution, albeit not a very satisfactory one, might be to shove a terminal/turnback platform adjacent to Cornbrook Metrolink stop.

 

[wallan]

Interesting. Can I ask the reason/pretext offered, if any? (Or was it just that the bearded one just didn't want to stop at such secondary places?)

And do/did you agree with it?

To Stop OAP,s with Free Passes using them

 

[Bald Rick]

When the Borders line (re)opened the stations nearer Edinburgh were said to be doing badly. How are they getting on?

Much the same. Total passenger numbers on the line in 2019/20 were only marginally ahead of 2016/17, the first full year of opening.

One other thing to watch for re passenger numbers is that there have been examples of stations which have surpassed expectations and are brought up as examples of how great new stations are (since they beat expected passenger numbers), but then the stations don't continue to grow at the same rate (e.g. you might expect a station to get 50% of passenger numbers in the first year, before growing to 100% over the next few years - but if it gets 100% of expected passenger numbers in the initial twelve months then it gets seen as a success however after a further four years when passenger numbers have only grown marginally, the headlines aren't about how it's got "5% more passengers than expected after five years", they are still about how "it got double the expected passenger numbers in its first year of operation")

Exactly right. The underestimating of passenger numbers for some new station / line projects is very often an underestimation of how quickly the demand builds up following opening. Typically forecasts assume a fairly slow build up to the modelled ‘expected’ demand over 2-4 years, but what tends to happen is that demand appears much more quickly, often within the first year.

 

[option]

Tyseley Warwick Road. Can't be used now due to being blocked by the ORR for some reason I believe; stand to be corrected. Never reached its full potential.

eh? Tyseley station is only a couple of minutes walk from the Warwick Rd. Where/why would there be a new station?

What's the feeling about the recently-opened Worcestershire Parkway and Warrington West?

As said on it's thread, Parkway is an odd one.
When looking at a map, it makes lots of sense, two rail lines crossing each other.
When looking at where the trains go, you then realise that a lot of them can't stop at the new station because they curve away to Worcester itself before the station.

I'm sure the County Council had all sorts of visions of others providing services to it, & there were commenters on the thread with ideas of WMR extending services to it, including the CrossCity!
But WCC want nothing to do with those 'others', they're not even an observer member of the WMCA. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Midlands_Combined_Authority#Membership

I've yet to work out 'what' it's supposed to do...

Worcestershire parkway needs the Edinburgh-Plymouth services to stop at it.

I'm pretty sure that XC would prefer to stop in Worcester itself.

Where would these passengers be going to, & where have they come from?

 

[Kite159]

In the future you could probably add Portway Parkway onto the list. A bus every 10 minutes (?) to the city centre or a train every 40 minutes (when they don't get cancelled) to Temple Meads on the outskirts of the city.

 

[LUYMun]

Has no-one mentioned Watford Stadium Halt? It was many of an attempt to revive passenger usage on the Croxley Green branch, opening in 1982, as well as being designed to seperate away football fans from home fans - colloquially known as "Hooligan Halt". The last train ran there on an unknown date before 1996.

I remember once walking up to the locked gates that lead to the platforms at the former industrial estate, not sure if redevelopment has cut access from it now?

 

[backontrack]

Conon Bridge gets respectable numbers of around 17,000 per annum, but patronage has never really recovered from the spell circa 2015-16 where the Far North Line was statistically the least reliable rail service in the UK. Before then, 40,000 pax a year was the aim.

Conon was always the first stop to be dropped from the timetable when delays occurred...and there were many delays, cancellations and skipstopped trains. So it hasn't yet seen the success of Beauly and Muir of Ord, although there's every possibility that it could swell in numbers again post-covid.

 

[Tester]

Has no-one mentioned Watford Stadium Halt? It was many of an attempt to revive passenger usage on the Croxley Green branch, opening in 1982, as well as being designed to seperate away football fans from home fans - colloquially known as "Hooligan Halt". The last train ran there on an unknown date before 1996.

I remember once walking up to the locked gates that lead to the platforms at the former industrial estate, not sure if redevelopment has cut access from it now?

The Croxley Green branch, east of the cut section, can be walked without going over any fence. There is a fence separating it from the operational railway clear of Watford High Street Junction. It's overgrown as you would expect, but the rails, including conductor rail, are mainly there. Watford Stadium, complete with red lampposts and some signage, is decaying gracefully, with a tree growing through the platform.

 

[james60059]

I've seen Kenilworth and Fishguard & Goodwick mentioned a few times.

Trouble is, Kenilworth seemed to attract a fair number of punters (211,000 in 2019/20 period).

Then along came the pandemic, the "essential travel only" mantra, and also, for the first 3 or 4 months this year it was bustituted. OK I know there's a train every alternate hour now but that's bound to put people off, a work colleague lives in Bedworth, and she always times her trips into Coventry with the train time. There has of course been the cancellations of that train too, mostly owing to "an issue with the train crew" - I'm assuming that means no available driver and/or guard.

Fishguard & Goodwick, it only serves a small community anyway, and since March 2020, the trains that never met the ship from Ireland at Fishguard Harbour have been axed - will they return??. Who knows.

I think when the next lot of figures are released for station usage, I expect EVERY station whether it's new or not will have taken a battering with dwindling numbers

 

[swt_passenger]

Has no-one mentioned Watford Stadium Halt? It was many of an attempt to revive passenger usage on the Croxley Green branch, opening in 1982, as well as being designed to seperate away football fans from home fans - colloquially known as "Hooligan Halt". The last train ran there on an unknown date before 1996.

I remember once walking up to the locked gates that lead to the platforms at the former industrial estate, not sure if redevelopment has cut access from it now?

Yes, Post #115 mentioned it…

 

[vic-rijrode]

Has no-one mentioned Watford Stadium Halt? It was many of an attempt to revive passenger usage on the Croxley Green branch, opening in 1982, as well as being designed to seperate away football fans from home fans - colloquially known as "Hooligan Halt". The last train ran there on an unknown date before 1996.

I remember once walking up to the locked gates that lead to the platforms at the former industrial estate, not sure if redevelopment has cut access from it now?

Watford Stadium Halt was, in no way, an attempt to revive usage on the Croxley Green Branch. It was solely designed to facilitate the (segregated) movement of away fans heading from Watford Junction to the Rookery (South) End of the Vicarage Road ground. There was no "public access" to the platform other than down a fenced footpath (around the allotments) to the football ground.

As such one could say that it was not a successful "new station", being used for a handful of First Division Games, then one or two Second Division games as Watford were relegated in the late 1980s. Away fans in the know shunned it because of the long walk from the Halt to the ground (and I believe the fare from the Junction). I don't think that it was used after 1990 (probably before that), some years before the peak hours service to Croxley Green finally bit the dust.

 

[DelW]

Watford Stadium Halt was, in no way, an attempt to revive usage on the Croxley Green Branch. It was solely designed to facilitate the (segregated) movement of away fans heading from Watford Junction to the Rookery (South) End of the Vicarage Road ground. There was no "public access" to the platform other than down a fenced footpath (around the allotments) to the football ground.

As such one could say that it was not a successful "new station", being used for a handful of First Division Games, then one or two Second Division games as Watford were relegated in the late 1980s. Away fans in the know shunned it because of the long walk from the Halt to the ground (and I believe the fare from the Junction). I don't think that it was used after 1990 (probably before that), some years before the peak hours service to Croxley Green finally bit the dust.

Might one suppose, from a phonetic reading of your user name, that you have specialist knowledge of the ground?

 

[matacaster]

What about Armathwaite, Lazonby and Langwathby? never seem very busy.

Likely due to low local population many of whom will need a car to get about. Also not much to see when you get to them except for walkers perhaps. The line and stations were already there, so stopping to provide a service for the few locals who don't or can't drive isn't unreasonable or at great cost.

 

[vic-rijrode]

Might one suppose, from a phonetic reading of your user name, that you have specialist knowledge of the ground?

Oh yes - about a 1,000 times of knowledge - since 1959.....

I have also used the Croxley Green branch many times - usually to Watford West. Huge pity that the link to the Met Line (which was also a favourite) was not built. It would have been of great benefit to swathes of NW London as well as SW Herts, giving an alternative to Harrow for shopping and QPR for the football.

 

[Sean Emmett]

In the future you could probably add Portway Parkway onto the list. A bus every 10 minutes (?) to the city centre or a train every 40 minutes (when they don't get cancelled) to Temple Meads on the outskirts of the city.

Well I hope not. Train service due to go half hourly soon and there's demand to Clifton Down (walkable to University area) too. Very slow by bus, parking nightmare.

When the Portway Park & Ride was originally conceived it was bus only, and would only available to people who arrived by car.

As an opposition Councillor I went to public meeting in Shirehampton. A guy who lived opposite it, and fancied a quick bus into town, asked if he would be able to use. Only if you drive, said the Labour party!

So the absurdity of this guy having to start his car, drive it up and down the Portway to get into the car park, to get the bus into the Centre, rather than simply walking across the Portway.

Thankfully the press ridicule made the Council see sense, and locals can indeed walk to get the bus, and also it picks up at Hung Road (Shirehampton) and Sea Mills too.

I did ask why, given the Severn Beach line runs right past, there was no rail access from the start. I was told it was something they were looking at. 20 years later, its finally happening...

 

[70014IronDuke]

What about Armathwaite, Lazonby and Langwathby? never seem very busy.

ITYWF Langwathby is actually one of the more successful 'smaller' stations on the S&C proper - 22,000 entries and exits IIRC for 2019-20 and rising before Covid.

I think it would be more successful still if it were marketed as a railhead for Penrith and Alston, and especially if it had an extra morning commuter service into Carlisle, at c 08.30 rather than the 07.32 and then nothing until 10.00 as is currently the case. (Although an extra commuter service at the southern end, about 08.15 ex Ribblehead, is probably a higher priority.)

 

[Watershed]

I’m waiting to see if those stats get corrected because that is quite a lot of interchanges

I imagine this is a function of ORCATS (correctly) finding that quite a few journeys are quicker by changing at Worcestershire Parkway - for example, even Worcester to Birmingham or Worcester to Bristol at certain times of day.

And obviously most journeys from the Cotswold Line towards Birmingham or Bristol as well, although here this will really just be replacing Worcester Shrub Hill as the interchange location.

Whether people in the former situation would actually think to change at Worcestershire Parkway - as opposed to just jumping on the next direct train - is another question.

 

[bluenoxid]

I imagine this is a function of ORCATS (correctly) finding that quite a few journeys are quicker by changing at Worcestershire Parkway - for example, even Worcester to Birmingham or Worcester to Bristol at certain times of day.

And obviously most journeys from the Cotswold Line towards Birmingham or Bristol as well, although here this will really just be replacing Worcester Shrub Hill as the interchange location.

Whether people in the former situation would actually think to change at Worcestershire Parkway - as opposed to just jumping on the next direct train - is another question.

Thank you for clearing this up, it has baffled me for ages.

 

[ChilternTurbo]

Pre-pandemic I used Ebsfleet International on a number of occasions for Eurostar departures, both on weekdays and at the weekends. My record from parking the car to clearing security and immigration was 9 minutes. For that reason it was a great station to use and avoided the crowds of St Pancras but my abiding memory was just the vast emptiness of the whole place and under utilisation of a pretty substantial facility. It looks like international services will not be stopping there until 2022 at the earliest but I do wonder about the long term viability of Eurostar resuming services.

 

[geoffk]

I don't think these two have been mentioned yet.

1. I wondered about Ashchurch. Near my former home area and I attended its opening, at which time it had a direct service to Birmingham (by Wales and West). When driving south in recent years I often called in and the small car park was never full. The fare to Worcester was dearer than that to Bristol, four times the distance, the service to Birmingham has virtually disappeared and the opening of Worcestershire Parkway means it won't come back. 108,000 passengers in 2019/20. Where do most of them go? A two-hourly service means that commuting, either to Worcester or Gloucester, is not really an option.

2. Stratford-upon-Avon Parkway. Passenger numbers 110,000 in 19/20 compared with 911,000 for Stratford itself.

 

[jazza374]

Blackridge and Caldercruix on the Airdrie to Bathgate section always appear deserted, I think the other new station at Armadale is a bit busier.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Blackridge and Caldercruix on the Airdrie to Bathgate section always appear deserted

I've noticed that also, often from one of the trains timetabled not to call at the two stations!

How's patronage been at Robroyston in Scotland since it opened just under a couple of years ago?

Anyone able to advise?

 

[geoffk]

I've noticed that also, often from one of the trains timetabled not to call at the two stations!


Anyone able to advise?

ORR station usage figures (entries + exits) 2019/20
Blackridge 57k
Caldercruix 104k
Robroyston 43.5k in 3 1⁄2 months