Bridge strike at Plymouth (30/08)

[PHILIPE]

NRE saying that line closed until end of day Wednesday

 

[Dr Hoo]

The railway is so vulnerable and there is no resilience. Regardless of fault, it makes me feel that road transport is more reliable.

Yeah, road is so reliable that apparently there isn't a single spare bus or coach anywhere in Devon or Cornwall, not to mention thousands of HGVs idle because of a desperate shortage of qualified drivers.

Fine if you've got your own car and only want to move yourself and immediate companions.

 

[Tallguy]

I suspect the driver saw the size of the bridge Entrance at one end and ignored the signs as he or she didn’t realise the exit was much smaller. I imagine there has been a serious amount of damage to the bridge structure. The rails and sleepers can’t be replaced/repaired until the bridge is stable. If the bridge deck has shifted that could mean a closure of a month whilst it is re-sited. Tesco will have insurance and they will cough up for the damage. Hopefully the TOC’s concerned can reclaim what they have to fork out in delay repay as well. They will certainly be able to claim for the coaches they need to lay on etc. Wonder if this payout will be as big as Gerrards Cross?

 

[DelW]

I suspect the driver saw the size of the bridge Entrance at one end and ignored the signs as he or she didn’t realise the exit was much smaller. I imagine there has been a serious amount of damage to the bridge structure. The rails and sleepers can’t be replaced/repaired until the bridge is stable. If the bridge deck has shifted that could mean a closure of a month whilst it is re-sited. Tesco will have insurance and they will cough up for the damage. Hopefully the TOC’s concerned can reclaim what they have to fork out in delay repay as well. They will certainly be able to claim for the coaches they need to lay on etc. Wonder if this payout will be as big as Gerrards Cross?

If you look at the picture in post #2, it's not a deck, it's a masonry arch, which has suffered some quite serious damage to both the barrel and the spandrel. That's potentially not an easy repair. It might (at worst) need the arch to be dismantled and rebuilt.

 

[4-SUB 4732]

I suspect the driver saw the size of the bridge Entrance at one end and ignored the signs as he or she didn’t realise the exit was much smaller. I imagine there has been a serious amount of damage to the bridge structure. The rails and sleepers can’t be replaced/repaired until the bridge is stable. If the bridge deck has shifted that could mean a closure of a month whilst it is re-sited. Tesco will have insurance and they will cough up for the damage. Hopefully the TOC’s concerned can reclaim what they have to fork out in delay repay as well. They will certainly be able to claim for the coaches they need to lay on etc. Wonder if this payout will be as big as Gerrards Cross?

Gerrards Cross was vastly greater in scope.

 

[Tallguy]

If you look at the picture in post #2, it's not a deck, it's a masonry arch, which has suffered some quite serious damage to both the barrel and the spandrel. That's potentially not an easy repair. It might (at worst) need the arch to be dismantled and rebuilt.

I was referring to the deck as the flat bit on top where the tracks are! No matter what the terminology this is going to cause a lot of grief and the insurers will be wringing their hands at the size of the payout. The driver will no doubt face `Tesco’s internal disciplinary process assuming he or she is an employee and not a contractor Or agency worker.

 

[PHILIPE]

Somebody who had gone to Totnes by car to pick somebody up reported approx 100 stranded people there with no info and no staff

 

[Western Sunset]

One careless lorry driver cuts off Plymouth and the whole of Cornwall from the rest of the rail network.

 

[Nova1]

Somebody who had gone to Totnes by car to pick somebody up reported approx 100 stranded people there with no info and no staff

the station isn't staffed after 9pm on weekdays, I expect there are a lot of confused XC passengers who've been booted short off their train with no info. GWR are terminating at Exteter St Davids instead where they hopefully have more staff to assist - and even at Exteter St Davids, if there isn't any staff, you'll be able to get your own way home, there's plenty of buses, taxis and hotels etc. Totnes is a small ish town, you'd struggle to move onwards.

 

[Tallguy]

the station isn't staffed after 9pm on weekdays, I expect there are a lot of confused XC passengers who've been booted short off their train with no info. GWR are terminating at Exteter St Davids instead where they hopefully have more staff to assist - and even at Exteter St Davids, if there isn't any staff, you'll be able to get your own way home, there's plenty of buses, taxis and hotels etc. Totnes is a small ish town, you'd struggle to move onwards.

Then in situations like this the company responsible for that station should send a member of staff there with authority to spend money on taxis or whatever to help sort the situation out.

 

[richw]

Will be a challenge to recover the lorry without damaging the bridge further, the deflate the tyres and pull it out method won't work from the front, so it looks like it will have to be winched back under the bridge. Fortunate no train was crossing at the time.

Picture on social media (screen shot attached below) suggests there was a train very close to crossing.
reported locally rails have moved a few inches and concrete sleepers have split!

the station isn't staffed after 9pm on weekdays, I expect there are a lot of confused XC passengers who've been booted short off their train with no info. GWR are terminating at Exteter St Davids instead where they hopefully have more staff to assist - and even at Exteter St Davids, if there isn't any staff, you'll be able to get your own way home, there's plenty of buses, taxis and hotels etc. Totnes is a small ish town, you'd struggle to move onwards.

Not forgetting today is a bank holiday which may impact staffing hours too.
Very slim chance of finding sufficient road vehicles to replace in the required volumes. Finding the vehicles might not be an issue but drivers are very short in the south west, and making media as a result. Stagecoach are reportedly 150 drivers short in Devon!

 

[Nova1]

Then in situations like this the company responsible for that station should send a member of staff there with authority to spend money on taxis or whatever to help sort the situation out.

I don't even think that would solve the problem tbh. Sending a single staff member to a station with lots of unhappy passengers could quickly go dangerous for that member of staff - what if one of them is assaulted etc? Not to mention there probably won't be any taxis to call!

 

[Tallguy]

I don't even think that would solve the problem tbh. Sending a single staff member to a station with lots of unhappy passengers could quickly go dangerous for that member of staff - what if one of them is assaulted etc? Not to mention there probably won't be any taxis to call!

Plymouth has plenty of Taxis, it’s a big place. there should be contingency plans in place to deal with this sort of event inc having staffing teams to deal with it. So what do the people stranded at Totnes do? Stand there all night? I’d be taking a taxi to the nearest station with trains running and sending the TOC the bill.

 

[snowball]

Horses for Courses. The relatively notorious '11 foot 8 Bridge' aka 'Can Opener' was raised by 8 inches. http://11foot8.com/raising-11foot8/

And a press release appeared on the Network Rail website just a few days ago about fixing the most bashed bridge in Scotland by replacing the deck with a thinner one.

Cleland rail bridge upgrade to avoid lorry strikes

A Network Rail and North Lanarkshire Council project to replace the bridge deck on Bellside Bridge at Cleland, Wishaw, is set to start this month.

www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk

A Network Rail and North Lanarkshire Council project to replace the bridge deck on Bellside Bridge at Cleland, Wishaw, is set to start this month.

Work to raise the height and prevent the bridge from being damaged by high-sided vehicles will begin on 30 August 2021.

The railway bridge, over the A73, is the most frequently struck bridge in Scotland and the seventh most struck in the UK.

When a vehicle strikes the bridge the road and rail line must be closed while an inspection is carried out and traffic diverted through Cleland village.

Story Contracting are completing the works, which are expected to last eight weeks and will replace the existing bridge deck with a thinner one, providing additional headroom under the structure.

This will remove its classification as a low bridge and the need for a signed diversion route through Cleland for high sided vehicles. The impact of bridge strikes on the local road network will be reduced and trains will be able to run more safely and reliably.

To allow this essential work to be carried out safely a road closure is required. Road users are being advised of a five-week road closure on the A73 from south of the junction with Fernieshaw Road to north of Bellside roundabout from Monday 13 September 2021 to Friday 15 October 2021. A signed diversion route will be maintained for the duration of the closure.

 

[Ashley Hill]

Why does this happen in the middle of my two weeks leave ?

 

[Gloster]

The bridge over the A75 at Challoch on the Stranraer line, now bypassed, was supposed to be the most bashed bridge in Britain. Despite that, it was protected by nothing more than the normal signs and black/yellow stripes on the lower part of the bridge girders.

 

[alastair]

I don't even think that would solve the problem tbh. Sending a single staff member to a station with lots of unhappy passengers could quickly go dangerous for that member of staff - what if one of them is assaulted etc? Not to mention there probably won't be any taxis to call!

So it is acceptable for 100+ people to be effectively abandoned at Totnes? Also Totnes is not the exactly the back of beyond - Torquay/Paignton is only a few miles away, and at the height of the holiday season must have dozens of taxis around. Putting 4 people in each taxi would only require around 25 taxis to clear them.

 

[ComUtoR]

Looks like it made the entrance pretty easily. Has the gradient on the exit made it a different exit height ?

 

[Tallguy]

So it is acceptable for 100+ people to be effectively abandoned at Totnes? Also Totnes is not the exactly the back of beyond - Torquay/Paignton is only a few miles away, and at the height of the holiday season must have dozens of taxis around. Putting 4 people in each taxi would only require around 25 taxis to clear them.

Exactly. Total failure by the relevant companies.

 

[Ashley Hill]

So it is acceptable for 100+ people to be effectively abandoned at Totnes? Also Totnes is not the exactly the back of beyond - Torquay/Paignton is only a few miles away, and at the height of the holiday season must have dozens of taxis around. Putting 4 people in each taxi would only require around 25 taxis to clear them.

Whilst Totnes is not exactly the back of beyond neither is it festooned with taxis. An average of about 4 hang around the station at any one time. Plus if the platform staff have gone home it's up to Cabfinder to provide taxi cover. Plus it's not really on a major road. Newton Abbot has far more taxis and easier access to the A38.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

So it is acceptable for 100+ people to be effectively abandoned at Totnes? Also Totnes is not the exactly the back of beyond - Torquay/Paignton is only a few miles away, and at the height of the holiday season must have dozens of taxis around. Putting 4 people in each taxi would only require around 25 taxis to clear them.

‘Must have dozens of taxis’ trust me if you’ve ever been in a railway control job getting hold of vast numbers of taxis at the drop of a hat is not as easy as it seems.

The Railway hasn’t ‘intentionally’ stranded 100 people at Totnes, it is doing its best to try and move them. What you also have to remember is this may not be the only problem going on out on the network at once and also many control offices are currently shorter staffed than usual due to covid-19 related issues.

 

[fgwrich]

One thing that has got me thinking this evening - with the incident happening at Mutley, what is the reason for turning back at Totnes rather than the closer Ivybridge?

 

[Nova1]

One thing that has got me thinking this evening - with the incident happening at Mutley, what is the reason for turning back at Totnes rather than the closer Ivybridge?

Ivybridge has poor road access compared to Totnes, there is also no staff or any station building at Ivybridge. There’s also through lines at Totnes meaning the line isn’t blocked by a terminating train.

 

[Sleepy]

One thing that has got me thinking this evening - with the incident happening at Mutley, what is the reason for turning back at Totnes rather than the closer Ivybridge?

Without knowing layout/capacity at Laira could stock work ECS to/from Ivybridge short term, just to get people closer that can make their own arrangements to get to greater Plymouth area ?
Regarding Sleeper from Paddington wouldn't it have been possible to run to at least Exeter St David's and allow passengers to remain on board until 0600 to continue journeys to Cornwall with less delay than starting from London at 0630 ?

 

[ValentaFan1974]

Plymouth has plenty of Taxis, it’s a big place. there should be contingency plans in place to deal with this sort of event inc having staffing teams to deal with it. So what do the people stranded at Totnes do? Stand there all night? I’d be taking a taxi to the nearest station with trains running and sending the TOC the bill.

Incorrect. Plymouth has quite a taxi deficit at the moment, as this article explains towards the bottom…..

Shortage of drivers is causing a new crisis to thwart taxi trade’s post-Covid-19 revival – Professional Driver Magazine

Taxi and private hire firms are starting to see a recovery in work – but their attempts to rebuild after Covid-19 are being hampered by a nationwide shortage of

www.prodrivermags.com

My family use the odd taxi once or twice a week but in the last few weeks it’s been nigh-on impossible to book one at any time of day in the city without a wait of up to an hour, if you’re able to book one at all.

Imagine trying to get taxis for the 150+ stuck at Plymouth station earlier?

 

[AlastairFraser]

Ivybridge has poor road access compared to Totnes, there is also no staff or any station building at Ivybridge. There’s also through lines at Totnes meaning the line isn’t blocked by a terminating train.

Surely the railway could run at least one big coach an hour on a constant return schedule between Ivybridge/Totnes and Plymouth to at least get some people towards the rest of the country? If it goes on for longer, at least tourist season will have finished and there will be coach drivers available to run fast services from Cornwall and Plymouth via the A30 to Exeter.
But, for the moment, a few coaches must be available in the entirety of Devon and Cornwall to do a simple Plymouth to nearest open station going east shuttle?

 

[Megabus]

Local firm Tamar Coaches have been asked to help and doing their best to keep people moving. They are a regular Rail Replacement firm in the area.

 

[richw]

Local firm Tamar Coaches have been asked to help and doing their best to keep people moving. They are a regular Rail Replacement firm in the area.

Redwoods and Greenslades parked at Exeter st David’s this morning.
My thought would be this is inefficient as only around 100 seats between them and around an hour each way or more.
It would surely be more efficient having a shuttle between Plymouth and Ivybridge at around 20 mins each way as the trains are all starting at Ivybridge it seems as first station out of Laira

 

[YorkshireBear]

Bank holiday really scuppered up yesterday many firms just not picking up the phone. They had managed to arrange enough buses for today including Tiverton parkway for speed, but unfortunately last night there was no buses or driver's available.

Bus companies can't keep fleets on standby incase of some idiot in a lorry. Railway can't magic buses out of thin air. But abandoning people was the failure. Again communication, not a new one!

Bridge looks to be substantially damaged and I would say we are looking at at least a week.

 

[deltic]

National Rail Enquiries say single line working has been implemented