Easing of Coronavirus restrictions in Scotland

[Bantamzen]

I fail to see what the fuss is about to be honest.

Which specific powers do you object to?
I look at that list and it is either useful to have things in reserve just in case there were another emergency or they just seem like very sensible things to do anyway - doing more things digitally just seems like the right thing to do.

If they're so sensible, why not introduce proper primary legislation that is scrutinised the whole way rather than sneak them in via Statutory Instrument after statutory Instrument?

Indeed. What the SNP are chasing here is powers to effect restrictions at almost a whim, with minimum if any scrutiny. And these powers may well not be limited to current or future pandemics. We all know there is potentially a bit of a puritan streak running through some in that party, the licensing changes & alcohol minimum pricing certainly seem to nod in that direction. So with a few tweaks & amendments quietly shoved in, the same "emergency" powers could be used to further restrict alcohol for example. "There's an alcohol crisis in Scotland which threatens the health of our people". And if that did ever come to pass, it probably wouldn't stop there either.

The words "edge", "thin" & "wedge" spring to mind for some reason.

 

[island]

Exactly.

We need a new Public Health Act (in England and Scotland) that determines how we handle such situations in the future.

The legislation should define the circumstances in which the measures can be used, and have safeguards to make sure that they are not used for longer than is necessary.

Above all, it should be made clear that the powers are NOT to be used as a means of dealing with "winter pressures" within the NHS .

And have a great deal more parliamentary scrutiny of their use and a great deal less of the “due to urgency it is necessary for this law to come into effect without having been approved by both Houses of Parliament”…

 

[duncanp]

And have a great deal more parliamentary scrutiny of their use and a great deal less of the “due to urgency it is necessary for this law to come into effect without having been approved by both Houses of Parliament”…

The "..due to urgency..." excuse should be banned.

Parliament can sit at night and weekends if required, with MPs joining the debate virtually if it makes it easier.

And as we have seen this week, parliament can be recalled in an emergency if it is in recess.

 

[Huntergreed]

Two weeks have now passed since the latest move to “beyond level zero” in Scotland. I can only talk from personal experience, but to me it very much feels similar to level zero and the restrictions we faced during June/July.

Masks are still mandatory across the country and most people are indeed compliant (but support for masks is waning, albeit very slowly)

Test and Trace is still mandatory (although the actual isolation is not, a fact that gives me a great level of reassurance)

Perspex screens, distancing stickers and one-way systems are still very much a thing in many places down here where I live (social distancing is still “recommended” between households even if not mandated)

People seem obsessed with testing (I was invited to a flat party with people all my age (late teens/early twenties) and the organiser mandated lateral flow tests before coming, many nightclubs seem to be mandating negative lateral flow tests (anecdotally at least) and there are an endless barrage of radio adverts and social media posts reminding us to “take our twice weekly tests to stop new strains taking hold”)

I have found it stark and really noticeable how much stricter things are up here north of the border compared to when I take a day trip to Carlisle. The next review is due by next Monday, and whilst I think there’s more chance of me catching a Scotrail train from here on Sunday than the SNP ending the mask mandate, one does have to wonder just how long they really plan on carrying on this charade for.

Worst of all, our schools are still facing heavy restrictions, with secondary pupils and teachers forced to wear masks during lessons, social distancing still mandatory, school events, trips and assemblies banned, and no end in sight for a return to more normal education for our children.

 

[Scotrail314209]

Two weeks have now passed since the latest move to “beyond level zero” in Scotland. I can only talk from personal experience, but to me it very much feels similar to level zero and the restrictions we faced during June/July.

Masks are still mandatory across the country and most people are indeed compliant (but support for masks is waning, albeit very slowly)

Test and Trace is still mandatory (although the actual isolation is not, a fact that gives me a great level of reassurance)

Perspex screens, distancing stickers and one-way systems are still very much a thing in many places down here where I live (social distancing is still “recommended” between households even if not mandated)

People seem obsessed with testing (I was invited to a flat party with people all my age (late teens/early twenties) and the organiser mandated lateral flow tests before coming, many nightclubs seem to be mandating negative lateral flow tests (anecdotally at least) and there are an endless barrage of radio adverts and social media posts reminding us to “take our twice weekly tests to stop new strains taking hold”)

I have found it stark and really noticeable how much stricter things are up here north of the border compared to when I take a day trip to Carlisle. The next review is due by next Monday, and whilst I think there’s more chance of me catching a Scotrail train from here on Sunday than the SNP ending the mask mandate, one does have to wonder just how long they really plan on carrying on this charade for.

Worst of all, our schools are still facing heavy restrictions, with secondary pupils and teachers forced to wear masks during lessons, social distancing still mandatory, school events, trips and assemblies banned, and no end in sight for a return to more normal education for our children.

Our cases have skyrocketed, which is bizarre as we have stricter measures.

Hopefully that doesn’t mean Miss Sturgeon will shove us all into lockdown again.

 

[farleigh]

Our cases have skyrocketed, which is bizarre as we have stricter measures.

Hopefully that doesn’t mean Miss Sturgeon will shove us all into lockdown again.

Almost as if the measures are not working..

 

[ainsworth74]

Our cases have skyrocketed, which is bizarre as we have stricter measures.

I'm not sure that it is really. In order for restrictions to have an effect, considering how transmissible Covid is even before Delta, they have to be harsh. Just chucking a face covering on and calling it job done isn't enough. You pretty much have to do the close down indoor hospitality, no theatres, cinemas, etc etc business if you really want to hit it.

I was in Edinburgh on Friday evening and the place looked as lively as it would at any time pre-pandemic. The pubs I wandered into were packed to full and standing (few if any wearing face coverings for what little good they might do) so if anyone had Covid there then I don't fancy the chances of anyone around them not being exposed (ventilation, which probably is actually helpful in combating spread, was negligible in most of these venues). So neither England nor Scotland at this point despite having slight twists on their measures are actually doing anything which will significantly impact transmission and prevent cases. To be honest I'd be more shocked if the present measures were having an effect on transmission considering they're so pointlessly light touch.

Still, as long as hospitalisations don't go crackers (which so far, fingers crossed, they don't seem to be) there can be no excuse for imposition of harsher measures.

 

[ScotRail158725]

People seem obsessed with testing (I was invited to a flat party with people all my age (late teens/early twenties) and the organiser mandated lateral flow tests before coming

That comes down the the sort of people there rather than a general consensus of the population

many nightclubs seem to be mandating negative lateral flow tests (anecdotally at least) and there are an endless barrage of radio adverts and social media posts reminding us to “take our twice weekly tests to stop new strains taking hold”)

Ive not been asked to take, or if asked i’ve had a test by any of the 10+ nightclubs i’ve been to in Scotland since they reopened

 

[takno]

I'm not sure that it is really. In order for restrictions to have an effect, considering how transmissible Covid is even before Delta, they have to be harsh. Just chucking a face covering on and calling it job done isn't enough. You pretty much have to do the close down indoor hospitality, no theatres, cinemas, etc etc business if you really want to hit it.

I was in Edinburgh on Friday evening and the place looked as lively as it would at any time pre-pandemic. The pubs I wandered into were packed to full and standing (few if any wearing face coverings for what little good they might do) so if anyone had Covid there then I don't fancy the chances of anyone around them not being exposed (ventilation, which probably is actually helpful in combating spread, was negligible in most of these venues). So neither England nor Scotland at this point despite having slight twists on their measures are actually doing anything which will significantly impact transmission and prevent cases. To be honest I'd be more shocked if the present measures were having an effect on transmission considering they're so pointlessly light touch.

Still, as long as hospitalisations don't go crackers (which so far, fingers crossed, they don't seem to be) there can be no excuse for imposition of harsher measures.

I haven't seen a perspex screen in Edinburgh, or been asked to follow a one-way system for a couple of weeks. I've also not seen T&T really mentioned other than having the barcodes out, and I've only been in a couple of places that mentioned masks (in both cases a brief flash of my pocketed sunflower lanyard was fine). I haven't been to a club yet, but I was meant to go to one on Saturday before work got in the way, and there was certainly no advance mention of testing.

I'd guess people will come out of this at their own pace but I'd expect that, as in most things, the cities will shift first and Dumfries will follow within 20 years or so.

As to the Scottish government, they have their indy majority in parliament to play with now. They will likely not want to annoy people by sticking on new restrictions or letting John Swinney out in public

 

[Highlandspring]

I note from the news today that Linda Bould, who from the beginning has been a shrill and strident pro-lockdown pro-masks voice in the media, has been been plucked from academic obscurity and rewarded with an appointment to the role of ‘Chief Social Policy Advisor‘ to the Scottish Government.

In light of this news we should expect and plan for a long harsh winter lockdown.

 

[kez19]

I note from the news today that Linda Bould, who from the beginning has been a shrill and strident pro-lockdown pro-masks voice in the media, has been been plucked from academic obscurity and rewarded with an appointment to the role of ‘Chief Social Policy Advisor‘ to the Scottish Government.

In light of this news we should expect and plan for a long harsh winter lockdown.

Wasn't she also one that kept flip flopping over things? Similar that to Devi?

 

[Butts]

I note from the news today that Linda Bould, who from the beginning has been a shrill and strident pro-lockdown pro-masks voice in the media, has been been plucked from academic obscurity and rewarded with an appointment to the role of ‘Chief Social Policy Advisor‘ to the Scottish Government.

In light of this news we should expect and plan for a long harsh winter lockdown.

Bring back Catherine Calderwood - I liked her.

She has done her penance.

 

[Scotrail314209]

Sturgeon to make statement as thousands of new covid cases confirmed daily

Ms Sturgeon will be joined by Chief Medical Officer Dr Gregor Smith for the update at midday today.

www.glasgowlive.co.uk

Lovely.

Covid Scotland: Nicola Sturgeon to make statement as thousands of new cases confirmed daily.

Ms Sturgeon will be joined by Chief Medical Officer Dr Gregor Smith for the update at midday today.

 

[kez19]

Sturgeon to make statement as thousands of new covid cases confirmed daily

Ms Sturgeon will be joined by Chief Medical Officer Dr Gregor Smith for the update at midday today.

www.glasgowlive.co.uk

Lovely.

I hope they have put her the BBC Scotland channel and not BBC One… but then again this is the BBC..

 

[Huntergreed]

For anyone who missed it (I sure did), she confirmed she won't shy away from reintroducing social distancing and harsher restrictions if cases continue to rise as they are:

FM 'won't shy away' from imposing restrictions if required​

Answering a question from ITV Borders about what point restrictions would be introduced, the first minister says: "I fervently hope we don't have to go backwards and enforce more restrictions, but if we have to do that, we won't shy away from those decisions."
She says that we all have a chance to influence what happens and must remind ourselves the virus is still there and do the things we can do to stop it spreading.
She says if we can get the virus back under control, hopefully we will not have to endure more restrictions.
Chief medical officer Gregor Smith adds that the Borders area is one of the first in which the surge was seen and reiterated that individuals should limit their contacts and look again at interactions.

(https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-scotland-58315307)

As much as I detest being negative, I do get the feeling we're in for another long, hard winter here in Scotland, full of petty restrictions (let's just hope she doesn't go as far as lockdown)

 

[kez19]

For anyone who missed it (I sure did), she confirmed she won't shy away from reintroducing social distancing and harsher restrictions if cases continue to rise as they are:

(https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-scotland-58315307)

As much as I detest being negative, I do get the feeling we're in for another long, hard winter here in Scotland, full of petty restrictions (let's just hope she doesn't go as far as lockdown)

I don’t follow what difference it makes in interactions etc, you interact with friends/family, you interact with strangers outside ie shops/transport - as I say what difference does it make? I read something about handshakes (really?), the virus is going to live with us it’s about time politicians realised this.

As for restrictions maybe it’s about they played their part? How about masking up in Holyrood? How about any rules they set they stick to it if not actually be punished (than being us plebs?), I doubt regardless anything will change it’s a 2 tier system/society anyway a rule for us a different rule to them.

 

[Scotrail314209]

Nicola Sturgeon to hold second Coronavirus briefing this week amid 'sharp rise' in cases

First Minister Nicola Sturgeon will hold a coronavirus briefing this afternoon as cases continue to experience a ‘sharp rise’ across Scotland.

www.heraldscotland.com

First Minister Nicola Sturgeon will hold a coronavirus briefing this afternoon as cases continue to experience a ‘sharp rise’ across Scotland.

She will be joined by National Clinical Director Jason Leitch.

It is the second briefing that Ms Sturgeon has held this week amid the surge of new cases.
New Covid-19 cases have doubled in the previous week - two weeks on from the move past level 0 and the easing of restrictions.

Here we go again... if she puts restrictions back in I’ll be convinced she’s lost the plot.

 

[Mag_seven]

Nicola Sturgeon to hold second Coronavirus briefing this week amid 'sharp rise' in cases

First Minister Nicola Sturgeon will hold a coronavirus briefing this afternoon as cases continue to experience a ‘sharp rise’ across Scotland.

www.heraldscotland.com

Here we go again... if she puts restrictions back in I’ll be convinced she’s lost the plot.

More obsession with "cases". How many of these people are seriously ill and need hospital treatment and are putting the Scottish NHS under strain?

 

[scotrail158713]

Nicola Sturgeon to hold second Coronavirus briefing this week amid 'sharp rise' in cases

First Minister Nicola Sturgeon will hold a coronavirus briefing this afternoon as cases continue to experience a ‘sharp rise’ across Scotland.

www.heraldscotland.com

Here we go again... if she puts restrictions back in I’ll be convinced she’s lost the plot.

Vaccines, Ms Sturgeon?

If you look at it another way as well, then restrictions are doing nothing at this point. Cases fell throughout July in England before slightly increasing in August - even after the 19th. Whilst in Scotland cases have continued to sharply rise throughout August with no noticeable change around the 9th. To paraphrase @brad465 from the no more lockdowns thread, the virus, and Delta variant in particular, doesn't care about our attempts to restrict it - it will do what it wants regardless.

 

[greyman42]

Nicola Sturgeon to hold second Coronavirus briefing this week amid 'sharp rise' in cases

First Minister Nicola Sturgeon will hold a coronavirus briefing this afternoon as cases continue to experience a ‘sharp rise’ across Scotland.

www.heraldscotland.com

Here we go again... if she puts restrictions back in I’ll be convinced she’s lost the plot.

She has lost the plot alright. The trouble is that so have her supporters, otherwise they would not be voting for her.

 

[Berliner]

She has lost the plot alright. The trouble is that so have her supporters, otherwise they would not be voting for her.

I vote for the party because My local SNP MSP and SNP MP have helped me personally on more than one occasion so I also like to reward them with my vote.

I don't support Sturgeon, I've never cast a vote for her and I feel she should have been replaced as I find her ineffective on independence and this Covid baggage will haunt her forever, always being a distraction away from what she should be focusing on. I won't vote for a unionist and too many green policies are incompatible with my lifestyle, so the SNP will get my vote until a credible alternative emerges.

 

[Bishopstone]

Scottish case numbers rising rapidly.

Time for Andy Burnham to institute a travel ban into Greater Manchester from Scotland, with Nicola Sturgeon to be advised two hours after the media announcement.

 

[greyman42]

Scottish case numbers rising rapidly.

Time for Andy Burnham to institute a travel ban into Greater Manchester from Scotland, with Nicola Sturgeon to be advised two hours after the media announcement.

Many a true word spoken in jest.
Sturgeon will probably be looking for some way to blame Rangers supporters.

 

[adc82140]

Looking at the figures today, England is showing a decline in numbers for a third day. Yet Scotland is rising "exponentially" (thought I'd squeeze in that oft misused word favoured by Sky News). Is it simply because they haven't had as many cases before, and there is a degree of herd immunity in England?

 

[NorthOxonian]

Looking at the figures today, England is showing a decline in numbers for a third day. Yet Scotland is rising "exponentially" (thought I'd squeeze in that oft misused word favoured by Sky News). Is it simply because they haven't had as many cases before, and there is a degree of herd immunity in England?

In England, there have been about 10,000 cases per 100,000 people since the start of last year, but in Scotland the equivalent figure is more like 7,500. The true gap is likely to be slightly wider (since England had it bad in the first wave where cases were undercounted), but even then I don't know if it would explain the huge gap in outcomes. There's also the issue that Northern Ireland has had more cases than England in the past, but is still seeing faster growth now (and has a much higher rate to boot).

At a local level, there's some connection between having a lot of cases over the last eighteen months and having a low number of cases now. It certainly looks like there's something going on - for example, only one council is in both the top fifty for both current infection rate and historic infection rate. However, this trend isn't quite statistically significant. I wouldn't rule out a herd immunity effect but if it's there, it's weak.

 

[Scotrail314209]

Nicola Sturgeon: Vaccine passports plan for nightclubs in Scotland

First Minister Nicola Sturgeon said the system will have to be brought in ‘quickly’ ahead of winter

www.standard.co.uk

So basically sod those who can't take it for medical reasons, if this gets approved say goodbye to some of your luxuries?

The Scottish Government plans to introduce vaccine passports for entry to nightclubs and large events, Nicola Sturgeon has announced.
Certification will be used for clubs as well as unseated indoor live events with more than 500 people in the audience.
It will also apply to unseated outdoor events with more than 4,000 in the audience, and at any event with more than 10,000 in attendance.

The system will be subject to a vote in the Scottish Parliament next week.
Ms Sturgeon updated MSPs on coronavirus on Wednesday afternoon, saying the vaccine passport system will have to be implemented “quickly” ahead of winter.

 

[kez19]

Nicola Sturgeon: Vaccine passports plan for nightclubs in Scotland

First Minister Nicola Sturgeon said the system will have to be brought in ‘quickly’ ahead of winter

www.standard.co.uk

So basically sod those who can't take it for medical reasons, if this gets approved say goodbye to some of your luxuries?

I’ll place a bet that it gets passed including our opposition backing it (sadly), but on the system side they’ll be a balls up somewhere but we won’t know until it’s been reported

Just read from Friday people will be able to download their QR code - why not say app? May as well plaster our QR code on our foreheads next! (too soon?)

 

[scotrail158713]

Nicola Sturgeon: Vaccine passports plan for nightclubs in Scotland

First Minister Nicola Sturgeon said the system will have to be brought in ‘quickly’ ahead of winter

www.standard.co.uk

So basically sod those who can't take it for medical reasons, if this gets approved say goodbye to some of your luxuries?

This seems to be in relation to the rise in cases. As the vaccine doesn’t stop infections - but does reduce severity of illness - what difference will it actually make? Next to nothing IMO.

 

[Scotrail314209]

I’ll place a bet that it gets passed including our opposition backing it (sadly), but on the system side they’ll be a balls up somewhere but we won’t know until it’s been reported

Just read from Friday people will be able to download their QR code - why not say app? May as well plaster our QR code on our foreheads next! (too soon?)

I hope the Conservatives block it purely because it's the SNP introducing it, wouldn't rule it out. I think Labour, Lib Dems and Conservatives should team up and oppose it, surely that'll outnumber the SNP/Greens?

 

[scotrail158713]

Looking on Twitter the Lib Dems are strongly against the proposals. Nothing from any other parties.