Why Are Cross Country Running 2 Coach Trains On the Cardiff > Nottingham Route?

[JonathanH]

If I'm reading this right, more power to Welsh parliament so they can turn around and tell people like XC that something isn't good enough.

What power or influence would the Welsh Government really have over the XC operation? Almost none. XC forms a small part of the service provision between Newport and Cardiff and is otherwise just a connection from South Wales to the West Midlands.

 

[Bald Rick]

The Welsh Government will have precisely the same influence over XC that the Scottish Government has, which is precisely nil.

 

[Envoy]

When was the last time there was a Cardiff to Newcastle service? Must be 25 years at least.

And when was the last time the Cardiff to Nirmknghams were anything longer than 3/4 coaches?

And why is the rolling stock to Portsmouth inadequate?

Below is a photograph of a Voyager leaving Cardiff on a service to Edinburgh via Newcastle in 2006. Of course, this was the result of the so called ‘Operation Princess’ run by Virgin who had completely underestimated - along with the DfT - the type and amount of rolling stock that would be required for what is now called Cross Country Trains. They then had to make cut backs to try and figure out how to get themselves out of this mess with south Wales being one of the losers. Now, for years going forward, Cross Country has been charging high fares due to the lack of capacity on these long distance services that do not go into London.

You further ask why I said the rolling stock on the Cardiff to Portsmouth services is inadequate - well, just take a look at the photo of the interior of one of these 165/6 trains below. In addition, when coupled to make up 5 coaches, they have no gangway connection. I would suggest that GWR and the DfT should be now considering perhaps something like a Stadler Flirt bi-mode train for this route.

When was the last time that Cardiff > Nottingham's were anything but 3 or 4 coaches. Today the 7.04 from Nottingham is 2 + 3 = 5 coaches and this will form the 10.45 from Cardiff. This often seems to be the case - presumably to meet peak demand on the south bound trip? The 6am from Nottingham is only 2 cars and this forms the 9.45 back from Cardiff. Presumably XC know where to target what they have available but I would have thought it might have been best to run 2+2 where 2 trains are joined in order to run the 3 car train on its own and avoid a 2 car on its own.

PS. Although off the main topic, I see that the 9.56 TfW from Cardiff to Manchester (started at Milford Haven) is a 2 car 153 today. An old train meant for branch lines running on the main line linking major cities in 2021 - incredible. At least the Welsh Government are doing something about it - unlike the DfT in sorting out Cross Country.

 

[sd0733]

PS. Although off the main topic, I see that the 9.56 TfW from Cardiff to Manchester (started at Milford Haven) is a 2 car 153 today. An old train meant for branch lines running on the main line linking major cities in 2021 - incredible. At least the Welsh Government are doing something about it - unlike the DfT in sorting out Cross Country.

The 9:56 from Cardiff to Manchester Is the booked 3 car 175, had a fault earlier but was repaired whilst the 153s which would have been spare did the Carmarthen to Milford and back. A sensible swap for a tiny portion of a journey to avoid a cancellation and a part cancellation.

 

[Neptune]

The 9:56 from Cardiff to Manchester Is the booked 3 car 175, had a fault earlier but was repaired whilst the 153s which would have been spare did the Carmarthen to Milford and back. A sensible swap for a tiny portion of a journey to avoid a cancellation and a part cancellation.

Yes and I’m sure if it was cancelled there’d be uproar and questions why they couldn’t just use a pair of spare 153’s for this part of the diagram while the 175 was sorted.

Damned if you do, damned if you don’t.

 

[MattRat]

The 9:56 from Cardiff to Manchester Is the booked 3 car 175, had a fault earlier but was repaired whilst the 153s which would have been spare did the Carmarthen to Milford and back. A sensible swap for a tiny portion of a journey to avoid a cancellation and a part cancellation.

Except 153s have no disabled toilets.....

 

[Envoy]

The 9:56 from Cardiff to Manchester Is the booked 3 car 175, had a fault earlier but was repaired whilst the 153s which would have been spare did the Carmarthen to Milford and back. A sensible swap for a tiny portion of a journey to avoid a cancellation and a part cancellation.

Pleased to see that they got the 175 fixed and able to run on the majority of the run. I have noted that the service in question often runs as a 2 car 175 rather 3 car. Anyway, off topic now.

 

[skyhigh]

Except 153s have no disabled toilets.....

Some of the TfW ones do, and they're perfectly able to operate alone.

 

[PHILIPE]

Except 153s have no disabled toilets.....

Half of TFWs 153s (13) have got disabled toilets and are fully PRM compliant. A non toilet one can only run attached to one.

 

[MattRat]

Some of the TfW ones do, and they're perfectly able to operate alone.

Half of TFWs 153s (13) have got disabled toilets and are fully PRM compliant. A non toilet one can only run attached to one.

I stand corrected. I just remember hearing it was uneconomic to modify them becuase they took away too much capacity on the 153. I'm guessing TFW had no other choice though.

 

[O L Leigh]

When was the last time that Cardiff > Nottingham's were anything but 3 or 4 coaches

I can only assume that your memory is highly selective because, prior to the pandemic, Cardiff to Nottingham services were frequently 2 cars. It was only thanks to the service reduction elsewhere on the XC network that it was possible to double-up 2 car Cl170s to make 4 car services, but now that the former service patterns have been restored there are insufficient units to make this possible.

However, as has been explained already, during the pandemic six of the 2 car units were strengthened to 3 cars, thereby reducing the chances of encountering a 2 car unit on any given service. While this may not be the kind of lengthening that the service merits, this does represent at least a modest increase in capacity.

 

[D6975]

The turbos were supposed to be reseated with 2+2 before taking over on the Pompeys, but this was cancelled. The decision has since been reversed and they are now going to be refurbished with 2+2 seating.

 

[Inthewest]

PS. Although off the main topic, I see that the 9.56 TfW from Cardiff to Manchester (started at Milford Haven) is a 2 car 153 today. An old train meant for branch lines running on the main line linking major cities in 2021 - incredible.

But who makes that run from Cardiff to Manchester?
Or is it more about the short hops between stations?

 

[Starmill]

If they wanted to, the Welsh Government could probably fund CrossCountry to lease an additional three car unit on the basis of certain diagrams to Wales being operated by three cars. Assuming that someone can find an available unit somewhere. Another possibility would be to run an additional Transport for Wales service.

The fact that they haven't suggests that it wouldn't be a good use of the money.

 

[JonathanH]

If they wanted to, the Welsh Government could probably fund CrossCountry to lease an additional three car unit on the basis of certain diagrams to Wales being operated by three cars. Assuming that someone can find an available unit somewhere. Another possibility would be to run an additional Transport for Wales service.

The fact that they haven't suggests that it wouldn't be a good use of the money.

Surely the Welsh Government is already funding additional provision over the bit of the XC route it is most interested in - ie that as far as Gloucester and Cheltenham by supporting the additional TfW stopping service. Spending Welsh taxpayers money on more capacity between Birmingham and Nottingham might well be questioned.

 

[MattRat]

Surely the Welsh Government is already funding additional provision over the bit of the XC route it is most interested in - ie that as far as Gloucester and Cheltenham by supporting the additional TfW stopping service. Spending Welsh taxpayers money on more capacity between Birmingham and Nottingham might well be questioned.

Perhaps they could get TFW to give their redundant 175s to XC. It's not perfect, but it would be something if properly allocated.

 

[JonathanH]

Perhaps they could get TFW to give their redundant 175s to XC. It's not perfect, but it would be something if properly allocated.

Yes, but again what is the problem that is of any concern to the Welsh Government? These trains are not a substantial element of the railway provision between Cardiff and Newport and many don't stop anywhere else in Wales. It is a DfT matter.

I note that TfW uses 2-car units on some of the Cardiff to Cheltenham services.

 

[Neptune]

Perhaps they could get TFW to give their redundant 175s to XC. It's not perfect, but it would be something if properly allocated.

It is not up to TfW where the 175’s go next.

 

[Pshambro]

The turbos were supposed to be reseated with 2+2 before taking over on the Pompeys, but this was cancelled. The decision has since been reversed and they are now going to be refurbished with 2+2 seating.

Will the new 2+2 seats be “ironing boards” ?

If so, my crystal ball tells me that we can expect lots of seat chat along the lines of “I preferred the old comfy seats in 2+3 configuration”

 

[MattRat]

Will the new 2+2 seats be “ironing boards” ?

If so, my crystal ball tells me that we can expect lots of seat chat along the lines of “I preferred the old comfy seats in 2+3 configuration”

I thought the problem with XC seats was that they easily fell apart.