Today's southbound Highland Chieftain (5/9/21)

[backontrack]

...is diverted via Ladybank and Burntisland. So far, so good.

But according to RTT it's skipped its stop at Pitlochry? Wasn't late-running. 1 down at Carrbridge, Aviemore, Kingussie, no report from Newtonmore, 3 down passing Dalwhinnie, made it up to 1 down at Blair Atholl, then passed Pitlochry on time.

Very curious.

 

[Unstoppable]

Just a glitch. Would have called at all booked stops

 

[hexagon789]

...is diverted via Ladybank and Burntisland. So far, so good.

But according to RTT it's skipped its stop at Pitlochry? Wasn't late-running. 1 down at Carrbridge, Aviemore, Kingussie, no report from Newtonmore, 3 down passing Dalwhinnie, made it up to 1 down at Blair Atholl, then passed Pitlochry on time.

Very curious.

RTT always has it skipping Pitlochry for some reason!

(As a point of interest, the Ladybank line was once the normal Sunday routing northbound for the HC while southbound was via Elgin and Aberdeen.)

 

[Clansman]

Yeah it's a common thing with RTT strangely. Not sure why.

As an aside, Perth to Haymarket being done in under an hour shows just how criminal the usual journey times are... pretty outstanding with a clear run at greens. I'm pretty sure only the sleeper has beaten that (when the first northbound drop off isn't until after Gleneagles so runs non stop to Perth to make up time).

Oddly RTT shows the same service sitting at Haymarket for 15 minutes. That can't be right surely?

 

[backontrack]

Ahh, thanks very much for the explanations folks

Yeah it's a common thing with RTT strangely. Not sure why.

As an aside, Perth to Haymarket being done in under an hour shows just how criminal the usual journey times are... pretty outstanding with a clear run at greens. I'm pretty sure only the sleeper has beaten that (when the first northbound drop off isn't until after Gleneagles so runs non stop to Perth to make up time).

Oddly RTT shows the same service sitting at Haymarket for 15 minutes. That can't be right surely?

Can confirm - we sat in Haymarket for 15 minutes. (I boarded at Perth). Presumably it was so that the WTT could catch up to us after our diversion via Burntisland.

But you're right - it's criminal, especially as we were actually quite slow between Hilton Jn and Ladybank. Clearly there's capacity for faster Edinburgh-Perth services, yet ScotRail are going to shunt them all via Stirling...

 

[hexagon789]

Clearly there's capacity for faster Edinburgh-Perth services, yet ScotRail are going to shunt them all via Stirling...

Well only the Inverness services, the semi-fasts still run via Fife albeit merged into a Fife Circle stopper. That I grant you is unfortunate as it will be slower.

However comparing the current vs proposed Edinburgh-Inverness Timetables, the timings to Perth are practically the same.

 

[38Cto15E]

Is the Highland Chieftain booked for 2 x 5 car sets?

 

[Whistler40145]

Was engineering work on the route via Stirling?

 

[D6975]

Is the Highland Chieftain booked for 2 x 5 car sets?

It was a 9 car last time I was up in London.

 

[hexagon789]

Is the Highland Chieftain booked for 2 x 5 car sets?

Booked 9-car 800.

As an example - today's Up service was 9-car 800 108, today's Down Chieftain is 9-car 800 103

 

[800001]

Is the Highland Chieftain booked for 2 x 5 car sets?

5 and 10 car sets are not allowed north of Edinburgh.
5 cars have been previously, but this is not currently allowed.

 

[BrianW]

5 and 10 car sets are not allowed north of Edinburgh.
5 cars have been previously, but this is not currently allowed.

Why is that? I can see that with 2 x 5 cars you'll have a lot of passengers not hearing/ heeding announcements about short platforms.
(In passing- I took the Chieftain for the first time last month at an excellent LNER £25 e.w. offer- wonderful!- 9car via Stirling n/b; Ladybank s/b- bonus)

 

[800001]

Why is that? I can see that with 2 x 5 cars you'll have a lot of passengers not hearing/ heeding announcements about short platforms.
(In passing- I took the Chieftain for the first time last month at an excellent LNER £25 e.w. offer- wonderful!- 9car via Stirling n/b; Ladybank s/b- bonus)

I don't know the full reasons, but only 9 car azumas are authorised west/North of Edinburgh.

 

[D6130]

I don't know the full reasons, but only 9 car azumas are authorised west/North of Edinburgh.

It's probably so that passengers from the rear of the train can get through to alight at the stations with short platforms.

 

[38Cto15E]

Thank you BM's, I asked about the Highland Chieftain Azuma formation because when I go on to the LNER website and access the seating layout to change seats, Coach C is missing, it only shows 8 coaches.

 

[hexagon789]

Thank you BM's, I asked about the Highland Chieftain Azuma formation because when I go on to the LNER website and access the seating layout to change seats, Coach C is missing, it only shows 8 coaches.

I think that because Coach C is the unreserved coach that's probably why it doesn't show on the reservation map.

 

[irish_rail]

It's probably so that passengers from the rear of the train can get through to alight at the stations with short platforms.

Doesn't stop passengers in Devon and Cornwall missing their stops due to being in wrong portion. Must be another reason for it. Oh how I wish they would ban 5 and 10 car sets west of Exeter!!!!

 

[yorkie]

Doesn't stop passengers in Devon and Cornwall missing their stops due to being in wrong portion. Must be another reason for it.

I don't know the reason but I don't think we can rule out GWR and LNER having different policies, can we?

Oh how I wish they would ban 5 and 10 car sets west of Exeter!!!!

Feel free to make this proposal in the appropriate forum section

 

[DanNCL]

The error on RTT where trains at certain stations are shown as not stopping is sometimes down to the stopping position of the train - if the train stops beyond the signal at the end of the platform (which is normal procedure at certain locations) it enters the track circuit beyond the station therefore is recorded as having departed. If the recorded departure and arrival times are the same, RTT registers it as not stopping. This also happens at Inverkeithing, or at least it used to anyway.

 

[hexagon789]

The error on RTT where trains at certain stations are shown as not stopping is sometimes down to the stopping position of the train - if the train stops beyond the signal at the end of the platform (which is normal procedure at certain locations) it enters the track circuit beyond the station therefore is recorded as having departed. If the recorded departure and arrival times are the same, RTT registers it as not stopping. This also happens at Inverkeithing, or at least it used to anyway.

Still usually happens for Pitlochry

 

[louis97]

The error on RTT where trains at certain stations are shown as not stopping is sometimes down to the stopping position of the train - if the train stops beyond the signal at the end of the platform (which is normal procedure at certain locations) it enters the track circuit beyond the station therefore is recorded as having departed. If the recorded departure and arrival times are the same, RTT registers it as not stopping. This also happens at Inverkeithing, or at least it used to anyway.

It is a bit of an oversight in the resignalling of the Pitlochry area. The new layout requires long trains to pass the platform signal in each direction, however the Train Describer step is triggered by the Axle Counter at the signal and not at the overlap at the end of the platform (which would make sense if the design intention is to have certain trains pass the signal). This is something that a potential new feature on RTT will fix in the future. It will report a pass if the departure time is reported before the arrival time.

Inverkeithing is not an issue anymore thankfully, perhaps the only good thing about the withdrawal of the HSTs, the HST power car would go past the signal and trigger the Train Describer step. It also used to be issues on the GWR network.

 

[Cheshire Scot]

Still usually happens for Pitlochry

Due to the relatively short length of platform behind the signal following the re-signalling I would suggest LNER being a longer train will normally stop in advance of the signal (unless it is red obviously), and likewise the sleeper (shown as not stopping on 4th and 6th Oct - I would imagine Pitlochry provides some sleeper trade most nights).
EDIT: as covered by louis97 - that post was not there when I started composing mine!

 

[hexagon789]

Due to the relatively short length of platform behind the signal following the re-signalling I would suggest LNER being a longer train will normally stop in advance of the signal (unless it is red obviously), and likewise the sleeper (shown as not stopping on 4th and 6th Oct - I would imagine Pitlochry provides some sleeper trade most nights).
EDIT: as covered by louis97 - that post was not there when I started composing mine!

Occasionally it does "report", it did I think on Saturday (maybe Sunday I can't recall), which was the first time I ever recollect seeing it record properly at Pitlochry.

 

[Jordan1296]

RTT always has it skipping Pitlochry for some reason!

(As a point of interest, the Ladybank line was once the normal Sunday routing northbound for the HC while southbound was via Elgin and Aberdeen.

It’s the same for the Montrose-Inverurie services. Portlethen never seems to show up on RTT.