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Have electric vehicles been "oversold" to the detriment of public transport, walking and cycling?

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gg1

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There's always the people mover car option. You don't need all the 'all terrain' look to get an easier boarding and alighting solution.
Agreed, and all other things being equal I would choose a small MPV over a small SUV on practicality. The major snag with that is there are far less small MPVs on the market, as an example our current car is a Kia Niro, a manufacturer who no longer offer a small MPV since they discontinued production of the Venga a few years ago. At the time we bought it, the other car on the shortlist was the Honda HR-V, another manufacturer who don't produce a small MPV.
 
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AM9

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The style and decoration of a car's body is very much in the eye of the beholder. I personally think SUVs look better than MPVs and many others do too. You might not like the look of them, but there is no wider societal reason to choose one or the other in most cases.
I was addressing @gg1's comment about needing a higher vehicle for a person with mobility problems. Much of the excess height, width and expense is there to make SUVs look like off-road vehicles that customers expect them to.
 

Bletchleyite

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I was addressing @gg1's comment about needing a higher vehicle for a person with mobility problems. Much of the excess height, width and expense is there to make SUVs look like off-road vehicles that customers expect them to.

For what it's worth the narrowest car I've had in recent years was...a Land Rover Defender. Cars are getting wider generally (I believe the C-Max is wider than the Kuga), for two reasons - provision of better side-impact protection (of which the Defender has none whatsoever) and so the rear middle seat is useful for a full size adult.

The price of a vehicle has very little to do with the cost of producing it, same as any product, other than that the sales price has to be higher than the production cost otherwise it's pointless.
 

AM9

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Agreed, and all other things being equal I would choose a small MPV over a small SUV on practicality. The major snag with that is there are far less small MPVs on the market, as an example our current car is a Kia Niro, a manufacturer who no longer offer a small MPV since they discontinued production of the Venga a few years ago. At the time we bought it, the other car on the shortlist was the Honda HR-V, another manufacturer who don't produce a small MPV.
I suppose you are a victim of car purchasers' ever changing taste, and to a degree their being taken in by manufacturers' aspirational marketing. In a way, the shape of small MPVs is wel lsuited to EVs as the raised floor level provides a perfect location for batteries where it benefits the CofG. Also, the opportunity to have a short bonnet, (often a problem for IC engine packaging), perfectly suits an electric motor and drive train.
 

gg1

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I was addressing @gg1's comment about needing a higher vehicle for a person with mobility problems. Much of the excess height, width and expense is there to make SUVs look like off-road vehicles that customers expect them to.
The only significant difference between modern MPVs and SUVs (excluding true off roaders) is the body shell, sacrificing a little of the interior space (mainly in the form of boot space - hence my preference for MPVs) of an MPV for an SUV styled body. There's no real difference to the dimensions, weight or price between them.
 

Bletchleyite

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I suppose you are a victim of car purchasers' ever changing taste, and to a degree their being taken in by manufacturers' aspirational marketing. In a way, the shape of small MPVs is wel lsuited to EVs as the raised floor level provides a perfect location for batteries where it benefits the CofG. Also, the opportunity to have a short bonnet, (often a problem for IC engine packaging), perfectly suits an electric motor and drive train.

Also suits small SUVs like the Vauxhall Mokka.

The issue with the whole SUV debate is that the term is used to describe two very distinct types of vehicle. One is the likes of Range Rovers - very heavy, 4 wheel drive, highly inefficient and often not very crashworthy for pedestrians - much more like what they call SUVs in the USA. The other is basically an MPV with a bodykit - Kugas, Mokkas and the likes, and don't deserve the same "hate" as the more polluting ones. And indeed do provide a good base vehicle for an EV because as you say the height is considered a good feature so they can go under the floor.
 

Meerkat

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Who needs statistics? Walk along any city street and you have wall to wall parking, day, night, weekends, peak times with no spaces.

You really do not need to know anymore than that! But if you need data: -
The percentage of parked time isn’t all that relevant if they are all used at roughly the same time - eg all the cars in office car parks (which, unless they are self driving, will be in the wrong place for other people to use anyway)
I'm thinking more of the traditional terraced streets where nobody has room for a driveway. In places where houses do, the easiest fix would be to provide assistance for everyone to convert (with porous surfacing) then you can just sort yourself out and the road is no longer clogged to the same extent.

You would have herringbone parking along one side with the angle adjusted to allow enough room to drive through on the other side.
I guess my road probably isn’t typical. Partly Victorian terraces and partly random fill ins, so it’s mixed whether they have front gardens big enough for a car. Not that bothers a particular group that really wind me up - those who have a small front yard and then buy a car that is too long and overhangs the pavement, should be a parking ticket every day til they sell it…..
On the contrary, to use the charger, the driver will need an account with the provider. Embedded in the contract could be a condition that 'overstaying' charging time wouild attract a charge. So that deals with charger hogging.
So residents would have to go out in the small hours and move their car when it’s fully charged?
 

AM9

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So residents would have to go out in the small hours and move their car when it’s fully charged?
Not necessarily, but if there was persistent parking by public chargers after the vehicle was charged thereby blocking them for other residents, a system to dissuade that behaviour would be there to bring into use. That would be important in areas where it isn't practical to provide more facilities. So many car owners regard the road space in front of their home as their private parking space and at last there would be a deterrent to restrict it at least.
 

py_megapixel

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Of course, when we have autonomous driving technology good enough to be trusted to move a vehicle on its own with no humans present, that opens up and awful lot of possibilities for vehicles to free up charging spaces automatically. But that's a long way off.
 

asw22

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To solve the charging problems we could install overhead electric cables on main roads and fit EVs with pantographs so that they can charge while in motion, charging a suitable fee in the process.
 

The Ham

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To solve the charging problems we could install overhead electric cables on main roads and fit EVs with pantographs so that they can charge while in motion, charging a suitable fee in the process.

That could work, although it would be fairly expensive to provide on many more roads than just the motorway network and key parts of the remaining strategic road network.

Of course at what height do you install it, the current height that the existing trails are working to or to the height which the current bridges are designed to?

The crazy thing is that the current trail heights are lower than the current design of our road bridges, which could limit where higher lorries can go.
 

87 027

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An interesting idea although I suspect practical implementation is fraught with real world complications as the poster above states. Short stretches on key routes might work - the equivalent of a 'pit lane' so to speak. It may be that battery technology improves sufficiently in the meantime so that range limitations become less of an issue for longer distance trips
 

Bald Rick

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It may be that battery technology improves sufficiently in the meantime so that range limitations become less of an issue for longer distance trips

It already has improved, and continues too. Several vehicles out there’s with 300+ mile ranges, and with rapid charging you can get another 200-250 miles in the time it takes to buy a coffee / sandwich and have them.
 

AM9

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That could work, although it would be fairly expensive to provide on many more roads than just the motorway network and key parts of the remaining strategic road network.

Of course at what height do you install it, the current height that the existing trails are working to or to the height which the current bridges are designed to?

The crazy thing is that the current trail heights are lower than the current design of our road bridges, which could limit where higher lorries can go.
The low bridges don't seem to stop some of them! ;)
 

trebor79

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How about a Peugeot e208, 217miles WLTP range, 10k miles pa, £289/month. In stock for immediate delivery...
Tempting but the range is a smidge too low for me I think. I do have reasonably regular requirements to do about 200 miles a day in very rural areas with no convenient fast charging facilities (yet).
Might get a good deal if they have loads of them sat about though...
 
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.….The other is basically an MPV with a bodykit - Kugas, Mokkas and the likes,….

I wouldn’t remotely describe the Mokka as an MPV.
Like many similar “small SUV’s” it’s really what‘s called a “crossover” vehicle.
These cars are based on small and medium sized hatchbacks, with enlarged proportions.
The Mokka is related to the Corsa.
Incidentally, there is now a totally new Mokka model, which is also available as an EV.
It’s slightly smaller than the previous model and based on the same platform, power train and underpinnings of the Peugeot e-2008 and smaller e-208 and (new) Corsa-e hatchback EV’s.


.
 

paul1609

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It already has improved, and continues too. Several vehicles out there’s with 300+ mile ranges, and with rapid charging you can get another 200-250 miles in the time it takes to buy a coffee / sandwich and have them.
The increased range though has largely been achieved by having bigger and heavier batteries. My first Nissan Leaf (company supplied) had a 30kw battery totally hopeless the last 40kw slightly less totally hopeless. I think there is a64 Kw option now.
The fast charge utopia in actual fact translates to rather a lot of coffees and sandwiches on the M25 on a wet Friday afternoon when there's 2 cars in front of you for the charger and all you want to do is get home (less than a Gallon away).
 

Domh245

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I wouldn’t remotely describe the Mokka as an MPV.
Like many similar “small SUV’s” it’s really what‘s called a “crossover” vehicle.
These cars are based on small and medium sized hatchbacks, with enlarged proportions.
The Mokka is related to the Corsa.

The Meriva, Vauxhall's discontinued small-MPV and which was effectively replaced by the Mokka, was a stretched Corsa too. @Bletchleyite's description is not a million miles from the truth
 

trebor79

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Not in the current fuel climate. I imagine they have been flying out the showrooms.
Maybe. Lots of pull in the opposite direction though. "I don't know dear, maybe we should wait a few months and see how things are, we won't have so much spare money once our elec/gas tariff ends and it gets more expensive..."
TBH I haven't really had any issues filling either of our cars. Just filled up when they needed it and laughed at the idiots queuing down the high street each morning - quite a few of the same idiots every day too. In the area I live too there aren't a great deal of rapid charging options so there are still some pretty fundamental barriers to mass adoption, though it does appear we are entering the steep part of the S-curve and I expect that will rapidly change.
I do wonder if some people might be thinking of putting any spare cash towards solar panels, micro wind and battery storage to reduce/eliminate their exposure to Putins geo-political games. I know I certainly am. I have a sneaky suspicion EV's will get significantly cheaper in the next couple of years, and/or the government will offer a scrappage for old clunkers. My 2 cars can run for a few more years I suspect, though the pug has a habit of throwing up engine management faults ever since the switch to E10 (garage clears them and doesn't charge me, but will be an issue come MOT) and the Renault will be due a cambelt change in 2023 - v expensive job on that model and they cocked it up last time and it's never been quite right since.
 

Dai Corner

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So basically petrol prices haven't gone up for 10 years.

That is scandalous amidst a climate crisis when we are supposed to be switching to green energy!

I'd add 50p a litre immediately! lol
It depends what impression you want to give. You could just as accurately say that petrol prices have risen 38% over the last 30 years.
 

seagull

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The fast charge utopia in actual fact translates to rather a lot of coffees and sandwiches on the M25 on a wet Friday afternoon when there's 2 cars in front of you for the charger and all you want to do is get home (less than a Gallon away).

Something the EVangelists forget, it seems, that the reality is currently lagging well behind the theory. I had almost exactly this scenario happen to someone visiting me recently (just on a different motorway).
One would hope and expect that with the progress of time these sorts of issues will lessen, of course.
 

Bletchleyite

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Something the EVangelists forget, it seems, that the reality is currently lagging well behind the theory. I had almost exactly this scenario happen to someone visiting me recently (just on a different motorway).
One would hope and expect that with the progress of time these sorts of issues will lessen, of course.

It certainly will, just as I'm sure getting petrol was a bit challenging in the days of the Ford Model T.
 

reddragon

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Something the EVangelists forget, it seems, that the reality is currently lagging well behind the theory. I had almost exactly this scenario happen to someone visiting me recently (just on a different motorway).
One would hope and expect that with the progress of time these sorts of issues will lessen, of course.
I do not agree.

The Nissan LEAF has a short range, slow rapid charging and the inability to be rapid chargers multiple times. I didn't stop me driving a 40Kw LEAF to Portugal, but it did take longer than I would have wanted. 11 instead of 8 hours.

There are now many EVs with long ranges that are affordable as a new car, that charge very fast and multiple times.

Those with newer EVs say that long trips take just as long in an EV. Tesla divers think nothing of driving to Italy, now the rest of us mere mortals can do the same!
 

Bletchleyite

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I do not agree.

The Nissan LEAF has a short range, slow rapid charging and the inability to be rapid chargers multiple times. I didn't stop me driving a 40Kw LEAF to Portugal, but it did take longer than I would have wanted. 11 instead of 8 hours.

To Portugal from where? Churn? Google Maps gives me a journey time from Calais of about 17 hours. Did the Leaf have jet engines and wings? (Edit: about 7hrs from Santander ferry port?)

The Leaf was of course a "first go" at a mainstream EV and an admirable one at that, but "first go" products tend to have major flaws. It's hard to contemplate now that the original iPhone was 2G only, for example.
 

reddragon

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To Portugal from where? Churn? Google Maps gives me a journey time from Calais of about 17 hours. Did the Leaf have jet engines and wings? (Edit: about 7hrs from Santander ferry port?)

The Leaf was of course a "first go" at a mainstream EV and an admirable one at that, but "first go" products tend to have major flaws. It's hard to contemplate now that the original iPhone was 2G only, for example.
From Santander, 8 hours with stops or 6 hours non-stop pushing very hard at night.
 

Factotum

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To solve the charging problems we could install overhead electric cables on main roads and fit EVs with pantographs so that they can charge while in motion, charging a suitable fee in the process.
Or you could tow a trailer carrying a motor generator set and charge whilst moving.
 
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