Train interfered with leading to wagon derailment 10/10/21

[eslcma]

But still no additional boundary protection ?

 

[Egg Centric]

I just can't believe the thought process of someone doing something like this, why on earth!?

Have you never been a teenager? I fully understand it. Doesn't mean they shouldn't be going to YOI for it though!

 

[al78]

Have you never been a teenager? I fully understand it. Doesn't mean they shouldn't be going to YOI for it though!

I have, but it would never have crossed my mind to do something like this. Maybe because I had the privilige of a decent upbringing.

 

[squizzler]

There used to be under BR a programme where they would send people to schools to educate young people the risks of trespass and messing round on railway property. I think engagement is key.

Idon’t want to belittle the danger that these actions caused, but perhaps rather than custodial sentence, the offenders could be offered the chance to make amends by working on the railway, perhaps cleaning graffiti off defaced stock.

 

[Neo9320]

There used to be under BR a programme where they would send people to schools to educate young people the risks of trespass and messing round on railway property. I think engagement is key.

Idon’t want to belittle the danger that these actions caused, but perhaps rather than custodial sentence, the offenders could be offered the chance to make amends by working on the railway, perhaps cleaning graffiti off defaced stock.

Yeah whatever happened to those youth engagement programmes?

I remember them coming to my school and explaining the dangers of the railways. As an enthusiast I found it both fascinating and scary…

 

[WestRiding]

I have, but it would never have crossed my mind to do something like this. Maybe because I had the privilige of a decent upbringing.

I was brought up to understand that if I did anything like that, I would have gotten a damn good hiding, at the very least. But then I wasn't dragged up by parents that don't care.

 

[Bertie the bus]

We're only talking standard hook and chain type couplings and the handbrakes on IIAs are as about as self explanatory as you can get, a big white wheel marked brake with arrows for which way's on and which is off. I can't really see the air hoses holding them up much either.

I still don't understand how a random person can uncouple a wagon. When I've seen uncouplings the loco pushes into the wagons, compressing the buffers, allowing the shunter to get the chain over the hook. Were the wagons parked with the buffers compressed? If not how did they get the chain over the hook?

 

[Spartacus]

I still don't understand how a random person can uncouple a wagon. When I've seen uncouplings the loco pushes into the wagons, compressing the buffers, allowing the shunter to get the chain over the hook. Were the wagons parked with the buffers compressed? If not how did they get the chain over the hook?

I don't know the state of them when they were coupled, but the screw link could easily have been unscrewed a bit to loosen the coupling to get it off. Easy knowledge for them to get off the tv, or with a bit of puzzling out.

 

[GB]

I still don't understand how a random person can uncouple a wagon. When I've seen uncouplings the loco pushes into the wagons, compressing the buffers, allowing the shunter to get the chain over the hook. Were the wagons parked with the buffers compressed? If not how did they get the chain over the hook?

Due to the nature of how the brakes work usually when the train stops it slightly compresses the buffers (not always). Only needs a small compression to take the tension away.

 

[bramling]

Have you never been a teenager? I fully understand it. Doesn't mean they shouldn't be going to YOI for it though!

I don’t think that provides any excuse to be honest. Yes teenagers do things they shouldn’t, but most manage to go through their teens without doing anything which has a really high potential of killing people. I don’t think this is too much to expect, even from those unfortunate enough to have the worst upbringing.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Have you never been a teenager? I fully understand it. Doesn't mean they shouldn't be going to YOI for it though!

Long time ago. I did not have that mentality though. I was taught right and wrong and morals from a young age....

Being a teenager is no excuse

 

[Egg Centric]

I am not excusing them. I think they should be going to a Young Offender's Institution given the potential severity of the incident.

But I do understand why they would do it (essentially free entertainment), in the same way I understand why a drug addict would burgle.

I find it interesting that others don't to be honest.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

I really don't understand why they did it. It just wouldn't occur to me to go and uncouple large heavy wagons (if even for a laugh). Not to mention the possible risk of injury to oneself or being trapped underneath the runaway

Perhaps some teenagers on here could educate me?

 

[Egg Centric]

Perhaps some teenagers on here could educate me?

This article (and the papers linked in it) may be of interest. Essentially teenage brains are wired for taking foolish risks.

 

[ainsworth74]

Not to mention the possible risk of injury to oneself or being trapped underneath the runaway

Teenager aren't exactly renowned for the ability to think through the potential consequences of their actions...

 

[GB]

Teenager aren't exactly renowned for the ability to think through the potential consequences of their actions...

Is there anything to think through though? Like throwing a brick off a bridge onto a motorway, except for luck, there really is only one outcome.

 

[jonty14]

Uneducated scum off the sink estate next door.

They are probably related to the people who have been putting petrol in carrier bags at petrol stations. Absolute utter knuckle draggers.

 

[boing_uk]

Two wagons separately uncoupled with air disconnected, one runaway with handbrake released, second with handbrake partially released, and a great bunch of youths filming the incident from the multi-story. Couplings and air hoses don't disconnect themselves and neither to handbrakes wind themselves off, especially on stationary rolling stock.

So, if it is known that there were youths filming the activities, presumably for some form of social media, it would not be beyond the technical capabilities of Investigators to identify mobile handsets connected to nearby cell towers.

Given the potential seriousness of what has been done here it should warrant such in depth investigation one would have thought.

Identify the handsets, identify the owners, check for the video evidence.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Yes, each phone has a unique IMEI number or digital "fingerprint" which can be identified and correlated to the nearest cell tower. I can't remember if "brick" phones have these or not; I assume they do.

But of course, it depends on whether the railway wants to pursue or not

 

[2HAP]

Yes, each phone has a unique IMEI number or digital "fingerprint" which can be identified and correlated to the nearest cell tower. I can't remember if "brick" phones have these or not; I assume they do.

But of course, it depends on whether the railway wants to pursue or not

All mobile phones have an IMEI number, have done since they were introduced.

 

[Towers]

Let's not forget that in years gone by, "youths" have been responsible for the fatal derailment of a train (Glasgow "Blue Train" I believe, driver killed?), have caused their own horrific death by climbing on wagons under OHLE, and have been involved in god knows how many hundreds or thousands of other acts of unfathomable recklessness around the railway. This is, depressingly, hardly a surprise, sadly. Such is the stereotypical nature of some people within a certain age group (as well as plenty from other age groups!).

I hope they're caught, but they almost certainly won't be. And if they are/were, they're unlikely to be punished particularly harshly I'd guess.

 

[Donny_m]

Yes, each phone has a unique IMEI number or digital "fingerprint" which can be identified and correlated to the nearest cell tower. I can't remember if "brick" phones have these or not; I assume they do.

But of course, it depends on whether the railway wants to pursue or not

You would need far more than someone’s phone being in a location (presuming it was daylight too) to arrest someone. This would only be a tiny 5% amount of evidence needed to arrest someone, something you only do when you’re almost certain you have enough evidence to satisfy a prosecution.

This isn’t really the kind of crime where you would retain evidence at home either.

At minimum you’d need;
-CCTV of them within the prohibited boundary and then still someone viewing it or in the papers to recognise the suspect.

-Finger prints and DNA.

-Witnesses.

-Evidence still on mobile device if you’re lucky enough it’s not pin protected.

All it would take would be gloves a facemask and to wipe your phone and you’ve pretty much completely covered your back.

 

[anthony263]

Is there any videos on YouTube etc which these idiots could have watched which have them an.idea how to uncouple these wagons

 

[GB]

Is there any videos on YouTube etc which these idiots could have watched which have them an.idea how to uncouple these wagons

It's a hook and chain, not the enigma code.

 

[Spartacus]

Is there any videos on YouTube etc which these idiots could have watched which have them an.idea how to uncouple these wagons

Dead easy if they’ve enough brain cells to remove the bolts on a fence in the first place. I’d be thinking more about a video turning up on YouTube or TikTok, possibly not posted by the culprits themselves but by a friend they’ve shared it with or a friend of a friend which might allow an identification to take place.

 

[Watershed]

This would only be a tiny 5% amount of evidence needed to arrest someone, something you only do when you’re almost certain you have enough evidence to satisfy a prosecution.

That's not remotely true. An arrest is normally one of the first stages in an investigation. The threshold for an arrest is very low in this country - reasonable suspicion that the person in question has committed an offence, plus one of the specified grounds of necessity.

A significant proportion of arrests don't result in any prosecution.

 

[hst43102]

Perhaps some teenagers on here could educate me?

Nope. I'm just as mystified as you are. So many people (not just teens!) seem to do a lot of things which have severe consequences but no positive effects to them. I just don't understand it.

 

[GB]

So, if it is known that there were youths filming the activities, presumably for some form of social media, it would not be beyond the technical capabilities of Investigators to identify mobile handsets connected to nearby cell towers.

Given the potential seriousness of what has been done here it should warrant such in depth investigation one would have thought.

Identify the handsets, identify the owners, check for the video evidence.

Being connected to a mobile phone tower (especially in a urban area) is no where near enough cause to break data protection or compel the handset owner to show what is on it.

 

[Wyrleybart]

This incident was wholly avoidable, had ground staff or another competent person been provided to do a walk round / visual check and a brake test. this is the second mishap in this area involving a freight train that a simple walk round check would have prevented.

Have you got a good lawyer ? You might need one with suggestions like that.
You clearly know better that most other folk but just suppose the GBRf shunter did his job correctly, then a bunch of feral youths started tampering. A for a charge, what does "tampering with government property" bring ?

 

[greyman42]

Have you got a good lawyer ? You might need one with suggestions like that.

I think you are being a bit overdramatic with that.