Covid Memorials

[Farang]

Apparently there is no memorial to the estimated 228,000 victims of Spanish Influenza in the UK. Across the world a handful of memorials and plaques exist, very few of them contemporaneous. It seems societies just wanted to put the ghastliness behind them, or focussed on remembering the victims of the The Great War.

Assuming the the worst is behind us, how should we remember the Covid 19 pandemic? Cenotaphs in every town and city? Statues celebrating scientific researchers, ICU staff and key workers? By investment in public health infrastructure?

Or do we simply re-run the Roaring Twenties and have ourselves the mother of all parties?

 

[brad465]

Or do we simply re-run the Roaring Twenties and have ourselves the mother of all parties?

The Roaring 20s might have been a good thing at the time, but they led to a major market crash, the Great Depression, rise of fascism and to top it all off a world war with the highest death toll ever seen for a conflict, and higher than every pandemic bar perhaps the Black Death.

 

[Yew]

Which other pandemics do we have memorials for?

 

[brad465]

Which other pandemics do we have memorials for?

I certainly don't recall any 20th century pandemics having memorials, nor anything earlier. Even Swine Flu in 2009 didn't lead to any memorials. The problem now is gesture politics has become more a thing, where it's okay to just show appreciation rather than demand and implement any physical action that improves society. This is even becoming a problem with Remembrance Sunday/day, where a former soldier recently criticised what the occasion had become, and the best way to remember war dead is to do whatever is needed to prevent further deaths in a similar way.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Which other pandemics do we have memorials for?

Suppose you could include the Great Plague of 1665/66 which is variously commemorated at Eyam in Derbyshire. Reputedly killed some 260 (out of 350) villagers.

 

[Farang]

Which other pandemics do we have memorials for?

The home of Dr. Edward Jenner, father of vaccination, is a museum. They are inviting people to contribute to their Covid 19 diary.

Dr Jenner's House

From his home in Berkeley, we tell the story of the pioneering Gloucestershire scientist Edward Jenner and his ongoing legacy: countless people around the world working together to promote life-saving vaccination.

jennermuseum.com

Your question reminded me of the museum's existence, so thank you for posing it. I made a modest contribution to their running costs.

 

[yorksrob]

The Roaring 20s might have been a good thing at the time, but they led to a major market crash, the Great Depression, rise of fascism and to top it all off a world war with the highest death toll ever seen for a conflict, and higher than every pandemic bar perhaps the Black Death.

I suppose it depends on what aspects of the rotating twenties one chooses to blame the darker events of the thirties on.

I don't think people letting off a bit of steam and partying after WWI can be held responsible for the Stockmarket crash.

 

[Hadders]

There is already a memorial to the Covid Pandemic in London, the Blossom Garden in the Queen Elizabeth Olympic Park

London Blossom Garden

Visit the London Blossom Garden to witness the spectacular bloom of 33 blossom trees.

www.queenelizabetholympicpark.co.uk

The garden offers a place of reflection for Londoners to remember those who have lost their lives, and pays tribute to London’s brave key workers who risked their own lives to help others and keep our city moving.

 

[Gloster]

People die: just accept it.

(Mods: you may find this offensive, but I am fed up with the constant need for anyone and everyone to show how much they care. Yes, the nearest and dearest may be upset by a death of someone they are close to, particularly when that person is relatively young and would have contributed a great deal more in life. It happens, accept it and just hope their death wasn’t painful, and that yours won’t be either.)

 

[Eyersey468]

The home of Dr. Edward Jenner, father of vaccination, is a museum. They are inviting people to contribute to their Covid 19 diary.

Dr Jenner's House

From his home in Berkeley, we tell the story of the pioneering Gloucestershire scientist Edward Jenner and his ongoing legacy: countless people around the world working together to promote life-saving vaccination.

jennermuseum.com

Your question reminded me of the museum's existence, so thank you for posing it. I made a modest contribution to their running costs.

I wasn't aware of this museum, thank you it looks interesting, I will have to add it to my list of places to go to.

 

[davews]

I was aware of this, but on a diversion on one of my walks went to see it failed to find it despite the signposts. Not very prominent.

There is already a memorial to the Covid Pandemic in London, the Blossom Garden in the Queen Elizabeth Olympic Park

London Blossom Garden

Visit the London Blossom Garden to witness the spectacular bloom of 33 blossom trees.

www.queenelizabetholympicpark.co.uk

 

[35B]

The Roaring 20s might have been a good thing at the time, but they led to a major market crash, the Great Depression, rise of fascism and to top it all off a world war with the highest death toll ever seen for a conflict, and higher than every pandemic bar perhaps the Black Death.

I’d hesitate about cause and effect, and suggest they’re both symptoms of the same brittleness in society. I also suspect that WWI played the dominant role in setting up the Dark Valley years, with Spanish Flu as a compounding factor.

Would a bit of ventilation make any real difference in an enclosed space where the same people spend most of the day?

Maybe, maybe not. But given the CO2 levels in some of the classrooms at my daughter’s school, and what she says they’re like to have lessons in, there may be other benefits.

 

[43066]

People die: just accept it.

(Mods: you may find this offensive, but I am fed up with the constant need for anyone and everyone to show how much they care. Yes, the nearest and dearest may be upset by a death of someone they are close to, particularly when that person is relatively young and would have contributed a great deal more in life. It happens, accept it and just hope their death wasn’t painful, and that yours won’t be either.)

I agree. What we need is a return to dignity and stoicism, not emotive hysteria whipped up by the media. The best possible memorial would be a swift return to normal and a root and branch reform of the NHS to make it fit for purpose. I suspect the latter will never happen but at least the former seems to be underway.

 

[Eyersey468]

I agree. What we need is a return to dignity and stoicism, not emotive hysteria whipped up by the media. The best possible memorial would be a swift return to normal and a root and branch reform of the NHS to make it fit for purpose. I suspect the latter will never happen but at least the former seems to be underway.

I agree

 

[kristiang85]

There is already a memorial to the Covid Pandemic in London, the Blossom Garden in the Queen Elizabeth Olympic Park

London Blossom Garden

Visit the London Blossom Garden to witness the spectacular bloom of 33 blossom trees.

www.queenelizabetholympicpark.co.uk

Also on the western part of the South Bank, the long wall with a heart for every supposed COVID death.

 

[The exile]

The Roaring 20s might have been a good thing at the time, but they led to a major market crash, the Great Depression, rise of fascism and to top it all off a world war with the highest death toll ever seen for a conflict, and higher than every pandemic bar perhaps the Black Death.

Think the main causes of most of those can be found in the events of 1914-1919 even if the immediate triggers happened in the 20s.

 

[Smidster]

As long as there is absolutely no public money involved then people should be free to memorialise whatever they want but I wouldn't want public money to be used.

If you are having memorials for Covid then why not all the other diseases that kill people, and in far greater numbers, over history? Where is the national memorial to victims of Cancer , Heart Disease or heck old age?

What has happened over the past two years is very sad - and there should be lessons that we learn for the future - but let's devote resources to making those changes rather than spending far too much on a pretty garden or decoration.

 

[John Luxton]

Apparently there is no memorial to the estimated 228,000 victims of Spanish Influenza in the UK. Across the world a handful of memorials and plaques exist, very few of them contemporaneous. It seems societies just wanted to put the ghastliness behind them, or focussed on remembering the victims of the The Great War.

Assuming the the worst is behind us, how should we remember the Covid 19 pandemic? Cenotaphs in every town and city? Statues celebrating scientific researchers, ICU staff and key workers? By investment in public health infrastructure?

Or do we simply re-run the Roaring Twenties and have ourselves the mother of all parties?

I think the best thing is to forget it!

War memorials can be justified.
Memorials to specific disasters / terrorist acts can be justified.

But really a memorial to just a bad dose of flu be it 1918/19 or 20/22 - just forget about it!

I am sure that is what most preferred to do after the Spanish Flu and I don't think anything has changed.

As an aside by grant parents and great aunt / uncle were youngsters around WWI and whilst that often told about life in the first and second world wars - I can't recall Spanish flu even being a thing they mentioned. Thus it could not have been to them of any great significance.

 

[35B]

I think the best thing is to forget it!

War memorials can be justified.
Memorials to specific disasters / terrorist acts can be justified.

But really a memorial to just a bad dose of flu be it 1918/19 or 20/22 - just forget about it!

I am sure that is what most preferred to do after the Spanish Flu and I don't think anything has changed.

As an aside by grant parents and great aunt / uncle were youngsters around WWI and whilst that often told about life in the first and second world wars - I can't recall Spanish flu even being a thing they mentioned. Thus it could not have been to them of any great significance.

I think you're probably right. But it's worth remembering that many accounts of WWI and WWII from veterans and concentration camp survivors only started to emerge decades later, after they'd got to the point of being able to share the trauma. I'd be reluctant to discount that altogether as a possibility.

 

[matt_world2004]

A third of soldiers in ww1 died outside of combat and it was the conditions of trench warfare that killed people

 

[43066]

I think you're probably right. But it's worth remembering that many accounts of WWI and WWII from veterans and concentration camp survivors only started to emerge decades later, after they'd got to the point of being able to share the trauma. I'd be reluctant to discount that altogether as a possibility.

A pandemic of a mild respiratory virus that primarily kills elderly and infirm people is hardly comparable to the world wars, both of which cut down tens of millions of young people in their prime, and included mass genocide in the case of the second.

Ironically the aspect of Covid most likely to cause lasting trauma is surely the gross overreaction to the virus: mental health issues stemming from enforced isolation, or from people being denied the chance to see dying relatives one last time etc.

I suppose the suggestion of a memorial naturally follows from the “we are at war” style narrative that has been spun around Covid to create a sense of perpetual crisis.

 

[35B]

A pandemic of a mild respiratory virus that primarily kills elderly and infirm people is hardly comparable to the world wars, both of which cut down tens of millions of young people in their prime, and included mass genocide in the case of the second.

Ironically the aspect of Covid most likely to cause lasting trauma is surely the gross overreaction to the virus: mental health issues stemming from enforced isolation, or from people being denied the chance to see dying relatives one last time etc.

I suppose the suggestion of a memorial naturally follows from the “we are at war” style narrative that has been spun around Covid to create a sense of perpetual crisis.

Agreed, but my comment was an observation about how memory works and that what was or wasn’t talked about is not necessarily a representative view of what happened.

 

[Cdd89]

I would argue that a memorial may be appropriate, but not until the pandemic is “over”. When that moment comes, a memorial could be a good way for society to move on from Covid.

However, as discussed in the thread “Will the WHO ever declare an end to the Covid-19 pandemic?”, such a declaration is not forthcoming; and if it does come, it is likely to be highly controversial among many people, since part of endemicity is accepting an indefinite number of deaths going forwards.

 

[yorkie]

Ironically the aspect of Covid most likely to cause lasting trauma is surely the gross overreaction to the virus: mental health issues stemming from enforced isolation, or from people being denied the chance to see dying relatives one last time etc.

Agreed.

If there is/are to be any memorial(s) it would be a difficult matter to get right but it would be absolutely vital to take into account the effects of the restrictions and not just the affects of the virus itself.

 

[kristiang85]

Ironically the aspect of Covid most likely to cause lasting trauma is surely the gross overreaction to the virus: mental health issues stemming from enforced isolation, or from people being denied the chance to see dying relatives one last time etc.

Indeed. For me, getting COVID was as memorable as any nasty cold. If it wasn't in this COVID time I'd have forgotten about it within a month.

But the memories of last winter in particular are going to haunt me for a long time - I don't ever want to be in that kind of mental health black hole ever again, and certainly not enforced by the government of my supposedly libertarian country. And I got lucky - I was not one of the countless people who, as you say, were denied access to dying relatives, who lost their jobs, who have been denied the best parts of their student days, etc. and that was all due to mostly ineffectual NPIs and not the disease.

 

[VauxhallandI]

Indeed. For me, getting COVID was as memorable as any nasty cold. If it wasn't in this COVID time I'd have forgotten about it within a month.

But the memories of last winter in particular are going to haunt me for a long time - I don't ever want to be in that kind of mental health black hole ever again, and certainly not enforced by the government of my supposedly libertarian country. And I got lucky - I was not one of the countless people who, as you say, were denied access to dying relatives, who lost their jobs, who have been denied the best parts of their student days, etc. and that was all due to mostly ineffectual NPIs and not the disease.

Yes it would be odd to have a memorial to self inflicted harm. Seems rather perverse.

 

[brad465]

I would argue that a memorial may be appropriate, but not until the pandemic is “over”. When that moment comes, a memorial could be a good way for society to move on from Covid.

However, as discussed in the thread “Will the WHO ever declare an end to the Covid-19 pandemic?”, such a declaration is not forthcoming; and if it does come, it is likely to be highly controversial among many people, since part of endemicity is accepting an indefinite number of deaths going forwards.

Yes this will be the most contested decision I think the WHO will ever make should they manage to make it. There will also be some folk dare I say who'll be quietly disappointed in its end.

The QE Park memorial isn't the only one by the way, there's also that memorial with 150,000 hearts painted onto a wall alongside the Thames.

 

[Busaholic]

A pandemic of a mild respiratory virus that primarily kills elderly and infirm people is hardly comparable to the world wars, both of which cut down tens of millions of young people in their prime, and included mass genocide in the case of the second.

I can't allow that to go unchallenged. COVID-19 is caused by a new form of coronavirus known as SARS-CoV-2 (severe acute respiratory syndrome virus 2) so your description of it as 'mild' is ludicrous. The First World War saw 19.7 million people killed, an appalling number, but hardly tens of millions.

 

[Eyersey468]

I can't allow that to go unchallenged. COVID-19 is caused by a new form of coronavirus known as SARS-CoV-2 (severe acute respiratory syndrome virus 2) so your description of it as 'mild' is ludicrous. The First World War saw 19.7 million people killed, an appalling number, but hardly tens of millions.

I think @43066 is including the casually figures of both world wars and including those who were injured but not killed

 

[kristiang85]

I can't allow that to go unchallenged. COVID-19 is caused by a new form of coronavirus known as SARS-CoV-2 (severe acute respiratory syndrome virus 2) so your description of it as 'mild' is ludicrous. The First World War saw 19.7 million people killed, an appalling number, but hardly tens of millions.

Don't forget all the people killed as an indirect result of the war - the following poverty and economic depressions in Europe. In fact, many Spanish flu deaths on the continent could be indirectly attributed to the poor state of public health following the conflict.