Covid Memorials

[43066]

I can't allow that to go unchallenged. COVID-19 is caused by a new form of coronavirus known as SARS-CoV-2 (severe acute respiratory syndrome virus 2) so your description of it as 'mild' is ludicrous. The First World War saw 19.7 million people killed, an appalling number, but hardly tens of millions.

WW1 = circa. 20m killed, another 20m wounded (you know: limbs blown off by shrapnel, blinded, hideously disfigured, that kind of thing).

WW2 = IMW estimates 60m military and civilian deaths directly attributable to the conflict (circa. 85m if you include indirectly attributable deaths), with many more wounded.

SARS-Cov-2 might have name “severe”
in the title, but you’ve apparently failed to notice the overwhelming majority of cases do not result in severe disease. Two years in it has killed circa. 5.5m worldwide (of a much larger global population than the WW era), so it’s hardly comparable.

What’s ludicrous is the silly comparisons of this mild illness to some kind of epic struggle on the scale of WW1 & 2. Which rather shows how we as a population have lost all perspective on human frailty and our own mortality.

 

[Bantamzen]

I can't allow that to go unchallenged. COVID-19 is caused by a new form of coronavirus known as SARS-CoV-2 (severe acute respiratory syndrome virus 2) so your description of it as 'mild' is ludicrous. The First World War saw 19.7 million people killed, an appalling number, but hardly tens of millions.

Oh so the virus's name has "severe" in it, who knew? So I propose we all barricade ourselves into our homes until it goes away, and ignore the fact that for the vast majority of people it results in no more than irritating, cold-like symptoms if at all.

Where's the facepalm smilie when you need it....

 

[deltic]

WW1 = circa. 20m killed, another 20m wounded (you know: limbs blown off by shrapnel, blinded, hideously disfigured, that kind of thing).

WW2 = IMW estimates 60m military and civilian deaths directly attributable to the conflict (circa. 85m if you include indirectly attributable deaths), with many more wounded.

SARS-Cov-2 might have name “severe”
in the title, but you’ve apparently failed to notice the overwhelming majority of cases do not result in severe disease. Two years in it has killed circa. 5.5m worldwide (of a much larger global population than the WW era), so it’s hardly comparable.

What’s ludicrous is the silly comparisons of this mild illness to some kind of epic struggle on the scale of WW1 & 2. Which rather shows how we as a population have lost all perspective on human frailty and our own mortality.

The best estimate of deaths worldwide from Covid is around 19m within a range of 12-22m based on modelling by the Economist magazine. There is huge underreporting in the official figures in many countries and of course the pandemic isnt over yet.

The best memorials tend to be the unofficial ones that the public have set up - ie the one on the walls of the St Thomas' Hospital which is especially moving. Something similar in other towns and cities might be helpful. A memorial wall where people can remember their loved ones.

At the risk of going slightly off topic, we seem to have come obsessed to putting up monuments for the flimsiest of reasons, there is a huge monument to the victims of the 2002 Bali bombing in Whitehall, which I dont think involved a single British citizen and took place on the other side of the world. There are also on going arguments about a holocaust memorial in London where again I dont think a single British citizen died. Why not one to the victims of Stalin's Gulags or Pol Potts Cambodian killing fields?

 

[43066]

The best estimate of deaths worldwide from Covid is around 19m within a range of 12-22m based on modelling by the Economist magazine. There is huge underreporting in the official figures in many countries and of course the pandemic isnt over yet.

Still significantly lower than the world wars (as per my original point).

A majority of these “deaths with Covid” will have been of very elderly/infirm people who had only weeks or months to live. In years gone past such people have generally died of pneumonia. Arguably for all practical purposes the real cause of these deaths is old age and/or whatever condition had made them vulnerable to pneumonia in the first place. I’d suggest most Covid deaths (average age of death 80+ in the U.K.) are similar.

The best memorials tend to be the unofficial ones that the public have set up - ie the one on the walls of the St Thomas' Hospital which is especially moving. Something similar in other towns and cities might be helpful. A memorial wall where people can remember their loved ones.

I’m not sure why any memorials are thought appropriate for deaths from natural causes and people can’t simply remember their loved ones in the normal manner. We don’t have memorials for flu or cancer victims, for example. Memorials generally make much more sense for specific atrocities, or wars.

At the risk of going slightly off topic, we seem to have come obsessed to putting up monuments for the flimsiest of reasons, there is a huge monument to the victims of the 2002 Bali bombing in Whitehall, which I dont think involved a single British citizen and took place on the other side of the world. There are also on going arguments about a holocaust memorial in London where again I dont think a single British citizen died. Why not one to the victims of Stalin's Gulags or Pol Potts Cambodian killing fields?

There were a small number of British citizens of the Holocaust, a handful of Jews were deported from the channel islands for example, and some SOE agents ended up in the camps. But I generally agree with you; where does this kind of thing end!?

 

[Farang]

Don't forget all the people killed as an indirect result of the war - the following poverty and economic depressions in Europe. In fact, many Spanish flu deaths on the continent could be indirectly attributed to the poor state of public health following the conflict.

And history.com says

'Historians now believe that the fatal severity of the Spanish flu’s “second wave” was caused by a mutated virus spread by wartime troop movements.'

History is alive

Find out more about the shows on Sky HISTORY's TV channel, with plenty to read and watch on your favourite historical topics.

www.history.com

 

[deltic]

Still significantly lower than the world wars (as per my original point).

A majority of these “deaths with Covid” will have been of very elderly/infirm people who had only weeks or months to live. In years gone past such people have generally died of pneumonia. Arguably for all practical purposes the real cause of these deaths is old age and/or whatever condition had made them vulnerable to pneumonia in the first place. I’d suggest most Covid deaths (average age of death 80+ in the U.K.) are similar.



I’m not sure why any memorials are thought appropriate for deaths from natural causes and people can’t simply remember their loved ones in the normal manner. We don’t have memorials for flu or cancer victims, for example. Memorials generally make much more sense for specific atrocities, or wars.



There were a small number of British citizens of the Holocaust, a handful of Jews were deported from the channel islands for example, and some SOE agents ended up in the camps. But I generally agree with you; where does this kind of thing end!?

The number of deaths from Covid at 19m is broadly the same as occurred during the first world war. The number of people suffering from long covid is estimated at 100m (University of Michigan) although for many the impacts are not that great.

The average number of life years lost for each Covid victim is estimated at 10 years (Health Foundation) so not like the impact of wars but not curtailing life by a few weeks or months.

The way of remembering our dead has changed over the centuries. Until relatively recently they would have been buried in a local church yard and that grave would have been seen regularly. Then burials took place in large council cemeteries that were more remote and people (especially older people found more difficult to visit) and now cremations are more common there is often no lasting memorial at all. Yet there is often a desire for a tangible memorial especially for those who died unexpectantly. Just providing a public space at no public cost for people to remember loved ones could address this desire.

 

[DanNCL]

I'm all for memorials - memorials for those who've lost their lives not from catching Covid but as a result of the draconian restrictions we've all had imposed on us for the last two years and would likely still have been alive otherwise.

 

[Busaholic]

Oh so the virus's name has "severe" in it, who knew?

Apparently, not you.

 

[Bantamzen]

Apparently, not you.

Whhhoooosssshhhhh...

If you were wondering what that was, it was the irony flying over your head.