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Ex LNER (and Grand Central) Mark 4 sets for TfW

Rhydgaled

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So you'll have to pay to upgrade and then pay again to eat? Or simply sit in first whilst eating and then return to standard?
Or buy a takeaway from the buffet and sit and eat in standard?

Another factor to take into account is being able to drop off and pick up passengers at Craven Arms to correspond with the Heart of Wales Line*. One would hope that this would be done by services operated by the 197’s rather than the Mk 4’s. *For those passengers coming from or going to the south (Hereford etc)..
Personally, I think it should be the Chester/Liverpool services that call at Craven Arms, Pontypool & New Inn and Church Stretton etc. The Manchesters should be a fast intercity-style service with the same calling pattern each hour (unfortunately this means Whitchurch, Nantwich and Wem losing their through Manchester services, since the infrustructure isn't there to allow a Northern EMU to do a MAN-SHR stopper).
 
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ABB125

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Personally, I think it should be the Chester/Liverpool services that call at Craven Arms, Pontypool & New Inn and Church Stretton etc. The Manchesters should be a fast intercity-style service with the same calling pattern each hour (unfortunately this means Whitchurch, Nantwich and Wem losing their through Manchester services, since the infrustructure isn't there to allow a Northern EMU to do a MAN-SHR stopper).
But.. but... but... that would mean Liverpool would have a less-good service compared to Manchester! That's just totally unacceptable; everyone knows that Liverpool needs fast, direct Intercity (whatever that means) services to Cardiff (and Portsmouth, Plymouth etc etc).

:D

(Though I agree that using the Chester/Liverpools as the stoppers would be the sensible option.)
 

craigybagel

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As I understand it South Wales-Manchester will continue to be an hourly service, but will be a mix of Mark 4 and Class 197 operation. I also suspect that the timings for the service at Crewe will surely be as now, due to TfW having to use their allocated path between Crewe and Manchester Piccadilly and the slot to cross over the West Coast mainline at Crewe.

Any changes will presumably be down to what the stopping pattern south of Crewe is.

That would leave the current connections at Crewe of 40 minutes northbound into Anglo-Scottish services and 10-15 minutes southbound.
That does indeed seem to be the plan. The Manchester paths are pretty much set in stone and even if the recast brought about by the Castlefields corridor report changes opens up space there it's hard to see any other windows for crossing the WCML at Crewe.

The big question is South of Crewe....
Another factor to take into account is being able to drop off and pick up passengers at Craven Arms to correspond with the Heart of Wales Line*. One would hope that this would be done by services operated by the 197’s rather than the Mk 4’s. *For those passengers coming from or going to the south (Hereford etc)..
Personally, I think it should be the Chester/Liverpool services that call at Craven Arms, Pontypool & New Inn and Church Stretton etc. The Manchesters should be a fast intercity-style service with the same calling pattern each hour (unfortunately this means Whitchurch, Nantwich and Wem losing their through Manchester services, since the infrustructure isn't there to allow a Northern EMU to do a MAN-SHR stopper).
But.. but... but... that would mean Liverpool would have a less-good service compared to Manchester! That's just totally unacceptable; everyone knows that Liverpool needs fast, direct Intercity (whatever that means) services to Cardiff (and Portsmouth, Plymouth etc etc).

:D

(Though I agree that using the Chester/Liverpools as the stoppers would be the sensible option.)
..... and as is always the case with the Marches, it's going to have to be some kind of compromise that upsets someone somewhere.

We're still very much in early days of planning with the MKIVs so it's probably too early for anyone to say with authority what the timetable will look like, and whether or not it'll be any different from that originally proposed for an all 197 service. I suspect the first we'll hear about it is when the local newspapers start reporting all the complaints from whichever station is seen to be "losing out" because some particular flow isn't served as well as another.
 

Envoy

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Would it not be possible to have the ‘few’ Heart of Wales Line trains extend to Crewe as stoppers or even to Chester as stoppers? This might encourage people from the stops N of Shrewsbury to go for leisure trips along the HoW whilst at the same time serving places such as Gobowen, Ruabon, Wem & Nantwich thus allowing these not be stops for the Mk4 / 197 expresses. Of course, this could be risky being as the HoW trains must run to time to pass at the passing places.
 

Watershed

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Would it not be possible to have the ‘few’ Heart of Wales Line trains extend to Crewe as stoppers or even to Chester as stoppers? This might encourage people from the stops N of Shrewsbury to go for leisure trips along the HoW whilst at the same time serving places such as Gobowen, Ruabon, Wem & Nantwich thus allowing these not be stops for the Mk4 / 197 expresses. Of course, this could be risky being as the HoW trains must run to time to pass at the passing places.
It's certainly possible, indeed the first northbound HoW service continues on to Crewe as it stands. But with the low frequency of the HoW service, you're still going to need units to fill the rest of the gaps. Realistically the aforementioned service more of an operationally convenient move than anything else. Now, where have we heard/seen that before... ;)

The Marches line TT is always going to be a compromise between different markets, a bit like the northern end of the ECML or the western end of the GWML and so on.
 

craigybagel

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Would it not be possible to have the ‘few’ Heart of Wales Line trains extend to Crewe as stoppers or even to Chester as stoppers? This might encourage people from the stops N of Shrewsbury to go for leisure trips along the HoW whilst at the same time serving places such as Gobowen, Ruabon, Wem & Nantwich thus allowing these not be stops for the Mk4 / 197 expresses. Of course, this could be risky being as the HoW trains must run to time to pass at the passing places.
Probably not possible. Between Shrewsbury and Craven arms they're already going to have to fit around a 2tph Marches service which will limit where they can go and whether or not it fits into the 2 hourly Crewe - Shrewsbury local service. It's likely there will be some degree of through working as there is now given they're likely to be using the same units (currently planned to be 153s) but I doubt the timings will work out all day - especially as the Heart of Wales won't be at the same frequency.

Pre Covid the evening service starting back from Crewe at 1720 was surprisingly popular.

Going to Chester would likely be even more problematic. That line also looks to be going to 2tph and there isn't the space for an additional service from the HOWL, and the units will be incompatible so you can't just attach to an existing service.
 
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Is it just coincidence that all tfw Mark 4 services have been cancelled/substituted today or has there been some kind of issue with them?
 

47827

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Is it just coincidence that all tfw Mark 4 services have been cancelled/substituted today or has there been some kind of issue with them?

No idea regarding today but as well as stock and loco issues cropping up sometimes (and network disruption that can require plans to change) these turns are also subject to a shortfall in crewing requirements sometimes as there's still a smallish (albeit improving in time) number of drivers that have completed the mk4/67 courses. Guard situation presumably not quite as bad as quicker to get the necessary numbers through the training.
 

craigybagel

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One of the sets failed on Friday, and the loco off the training set that was in Crewe at the time was co-opted to rescue it. There may still be some disruption of getting things back working again and in the right place.
 

43102EMR

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Only just came across this thread - what is the exact scope of the work to be done at Eastleigh, are the sets being refurbished internally or repainted? (Not sure why they’d be repainted given their recent one at Widnes)
 

Skip 10

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Only just came across this thread - what is the exact scope of the work to be done at Eastleigh, are the sets being refurbished internally or repainted? (Not sure why they’d be repainted given their recent one at Widnes)
Multi workings mods to work with the class 67s and SDO
 

OrangeJuice

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Have TfW stopped using the MkIV's because of the temporary timetable and lack of staff?

Or is it that they are needing the modificatios for SDO and extension to 5 carriages as mentioned before? (Or a combination of both)
 

craigybagel

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Have TfW stopped using the MkIV's because of the temporary timetable and lack of staff?

Or is it that they are needing the modificatios for SDO and extension to 5 carriages as mentioned before? (Or a combination of both)
The former.

I believe they're hoping to have them back in service next week however.
 

Doveymain158

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Have TfW stopped using the MkIV's because of the temporary timetable and lack of staff?

Or is it that they are needing the modificatios for SDO and extension to 5 carriages as mentioned before? (Or a combination of both)
Ex-GC are being modified with SDO before entering service HD01, HD02 & HD03 will also have SDO fitted plus will be reformed with POD in correct position behind DVT and also extra TSOD added to the rakes.
 

warwickshire

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Ex-GC are being modified with SDO before entering service HD01, HD02 & HD03 will also have SDO fitted plus will be reformed with POD in correct position behind DVT and also extra TSOD added to the rakes.
Will Eastleigh repaint the ex GC sets into tfw livery seeing as there is a paint workshop on site as well?
 
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LNW-GW Joint

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Will Eastleigh repaint the ex GC sets into tfw livery seeing as there is a paint workshop on site as well?
A further repaint without having turned a wheel in service after the GC repaint is a luxury the Welsh taxpayer can do without, I think.
Maybe something to think about when all the new TfW stock is in service and the old stock gone.
 

43102EMR

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Will Eastleigh repaint the ex GC sets into tfw livery seeing as there is a paint workshop on site as well?
I mean, TfW could pull an EMR and vinyl the main bodyside but leave the window area black - seemed to work well for their 180s…
 

fgwrich

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I mean, TfW could pull an EMR and vinyl the main bodyside but leave the window area black - seemed to work well for their 180s…
And the 402 TRFBs in the Angel rakes, cleverly vinyled around the FGW Blue.

Of course repainting them is a form of Luxury, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they do decide to repaint them all to produce a more uniform fleet. As it stands the ex LNER Mk4s are starting to look rather weather worn in their former VTEC livery, made more noticeable by the decision to repaint the DVTs. They are after all repainting their way through the soon to be outgoing 150s after all.
 

43102EMR

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And the 402 TRFBs in the Angel rakes, cleverly vinyled around the FGW Blue.

Of course repainting them is a form of Luxury, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they do decide to repaint them all to produce a more uniform fleet. As it stands the ex LNER Mk4s are starting to look rather weather worn in their former VTEC livery, made more noticeable by the decision to repaint the DVTs. They are after all repainting their way through the soon to be outgoing 150s after all.
The mk4s I can see them repainting the Ex-LNER ones, but considering the GC ones were recently fully refurbished I can’t seen it happening for them, but who knows.

The 150s aren’t being repainted - they’re being vinyled by Canton.
 

adrock1976

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What's it called? It's called Cumbernauld
Ex-GC are being modified with SDO before entering service HD01, HD02 & HD03 will also have SDO fitted plus will be reformed with POD in correct position behind DVT and also extra TSOD added to the rakes.

Going by the set numbers, does HD mean that their home depot is Holyhead?

What is POD and TSOD?

Also, which one was the former BN25 that had DVT 82216 (assuming no DVTs have been swapped)?
 

krus_aragon

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Going by the set numbers, does HD mean that their home depot is Holyhead?

What is POD and TSOD?
HD = Holyhead is my understanding. While the Mk2/3 rakes always overnighted at Holyhead, with three services a day per diagram they'll alternate between Holyhead and Cardiff.

TSOD is a Tourist Standard Open carriage with Disabled space and access. Basically a standard class carriage with wheelchair space.

I think POD is an autocorrect typo for FOD, being a First Open carriage with Disabled access.
 

Doveymain158

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Going by the set numbers, does HD mean that their home depot is Holyhead?

What is POD and TSOD?

Also, which one was the former BN25 that had DVT 82216 (assuming no DVTs have been swapped)?
The set numbers come from the Platform 5 coaching stock book 2022. I would assume Holyhead might be home depot as Canton will be the main depot for Stadler flirt 231s and 756s
 

adrock1976

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What's it called? It's called Cumbernauld
HD = Holyhead is my understanding. While the Mk2/3 rakes always overnighted at Holyhead, with three services a day per diagram they'll alternate between Holyhead and Cardiff.

TSOD is a Tourist Standard Open carriage with Disabled space and access. Basically a standard class carriage with wheelchair space.

I think POD is an autocorrect typo for FOD, being a First Open carriage with Disabled access.

The set numbers come from the Platform 5 coaching stock book 2022. I would assume Holyhead might be home depot as Canton will be the main depot for Stadler flirt 231s and 756s

Thanks both.
 

wobman

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The set numbers come from the Platform 5 coaching stock book 2022. I would assume Holyhead might be home depot as Canton will be the main depot for Stadler flirt 231s and 756s
The problem with Holyhead is there's no facilities for Mk4s and 67s to be maintained, it just has a fuel road.
They are building more sidings fir unit storage, as the Mk4s and some 197s are going to get stored there overnight in the future.

I'm hearing Landore will be the heavy maintenance facilties fir these m4s in the future, especially once the ex GC stock are finished with there SDO upgrades.
 

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