Why the fear/anger (or similar) emotions around mask wearing?

[Feathers44]

Mod Note: Posts #1 - #15 originally in this thread.

The general fear and anger I see around face masks is something I just don’t understand. They’re as annoying to wear as anything on earth but I really don’t understand the “got to go” stuff. It’s hardly that much of an imposition But if they frighten someone that much then they now don’t have to wear them.

i’m not trying to be provocative, so I hope it’s not taken that way, I simply don’t comprehend the strength of the emotion around this. I find it slightly…bizarre I guess is a good word.

 

[102 fan]

The general fear and anger I see around face masks is something I just don’t understand. They’re as annoying to wear as anything on earth but I really don’t understand the “got to go” stuff. It’s hardly that much of an imposition But if they frighten someone that much then they now don’t have to wear them.

i’m not trying to be provocative, so I hope it’s not taken that way, I simply don’t comprehend the strength of the emotion around this. I find it slightly…bizarre I guess is a good word.

N Ireland, Scotland and Wales have had mask mandates far longer than England, without any lessening of cases. More sometimes. That's why they have to go.

 

[Huntergreed]

The general fear and anger I see around face masks is something I just don’t understand. They’re as annoying to wear as anything on earth but I really don’t understand the “got to go” stuff. It’s hardly that much of an imposition But if they frighten someone that much then they now don’t have to wear them.

i’m not trying to be provocative, so I hope it’s not taken that way, I simply don’t comprehend the strength of the emotion around this. I find it slightly…bizarre I guess is a good word.

It’s symbolic, mostly. It’s clear by now that they make absolutely no difference and they’re entirely ineffective outside a controlled clinical environment, yet mandating them brings out the worst in people (and makes people who are exempt feel like second, if not third class citizens).

They must go because they are divisive, a symbol of state control, and entirely ineffective.

 

[Feathers44]

I grant that’s why some may want them to go, No more than that though. All of this “have to” from people with no medical qualification is something I’ve tuned out months ago.

(Can you tell I’ve been into this quite heavily on forums elsewhere? I probably shouldn’t push it here.)

Edit: OK at the point of “state control” I’m out. We’re to far into the weird. As I say, that sort of depth of feeling is just incomprehensible.

 

[yorkie]

The general fear and anger I see around face masks is something I just don’t understand.

Does anyone claim to understand all causes of fear, angst and dislike? If so, I'd like to ask that person some questions...

They’re as annoying to wear as anything on earth but I really don’t understand the “got to go” stuff.

That's the wrong way round; this is not an authoritarian country and we do not go round forcing people to wear flimsy masks. That is the default position. Anyone who wishes to change that needs to have a damn good reason.

It’s hardly that much of an imposition But if they frighten someone that much then they now don’t have to wear them.

i’m not trying to be provocative, so I hope it’s not taken that way, I simply don’t comprehend the strength of the emotion around this. I find it slightly…bizarre I guess is a good word.

I don't understand what you are saying.

I grant that’s why some may want them to go, No more than that though.

Masks are incredibly divisive and have become symbolic among a cult who wish to restrict us; have you read the previous threads on the subject? It would be useful for you to read those threads rather than go through the same arguments again.

All of this “have to” from people with no medical qualification is something I’ve tuned out months ago.

Can you detail which medical qualifications qualify someone to be expert on whether or not mask mandates are an effective way to prevent the spread of viruses? Can you introduce me to a suitably qualified person who can explain the high case rates in countries where masks are mandated?

(Can you tell I’ve been into this quite heavily on forums elsewhere? I probably shouldn’t push it here.)

I'm more than happy to have a debate; I've said before that effective FFP3 masks have been proven to be extremely effective at preventing the spread of viruses. Everyone has the option to wear such a mask. So, what's the issue? Given everyone has the choice to wear a highly effective protective mask, why do you want people to be forced to wear any old mask?

It’s symbolic, mostly. It’s clear by now that they make absolutely no difference and they’re entirely ineffective outside a controlled clinical environment, yet mandating them brings out the worst in people (and makes people who are exempt feel like second, if not third class citizens).

They must go because they are divisive, a symbol of state control, and entirely ineffective.

Absolutely. It will make my workplace a much more pleasant environment and avoid me being asked questions which quite frankly no-one should have to answer. Positive relationships and interactions are absolutely vital in my workplace. Masks are a huge barrier.

 

[102 fan]

I grant that’s why some may want them to go, No more than that though. All of this “have to” from people with no medical qualification is something I’ve tuned out months ago.

(Can you tell I’ve been into this quite heavily on forums elsewhere? I probably shouldn’t push it here.)

Edit: OK at the point of “state control” I’m out. We’re to far into the weird. As I say, that sort of depth of feeling is just incomprehensible.

Can you explain why cases in Wales, Scotland and N Ireland went up with a mask mandate longer than Englands?

 

[yorkie]

Can you explain why cases in Wales, Scotland and N Ireland went up with a mask mandate longer than Englands?

And I'll add to that: how come France had over 2 million infections in a week?

Also, we've been here before: on 19 July 2021 the mask mandate ended in England; what happened? Cases plummeted in England while remaining stubbornly high for a while elsewhere in the UK.

@Feathers44 this is all explained in various threads, including the following:

• Masks again
• Fight on a train over masks
• Has the wearing of face masks become a left/right issue?
• The case for and against the effectiveness of face coverings and the mandating of their use

If you want to wear a mask (perhaps you distrust the vaccines?) you are welcome to wear a highly effective FFP3 mask which offers close to 100% protection (when correctly worn, providing they are also stored/handled correctly); you then don't need to worry about whether other people are wearing flimsy, loose fitting masks, or not.

 

[Feathers44]

Can you explain why cases in Wales, Scotland and N Ireland went up with a mask mandate longer than Englands?

No, nor do I need to. Again, I just don’t feel that strongly either way about this. I don't know if they work or not but it costs me next to nothing to wear one except an inability to see when my glasses steam up.

if medical authority says they might do some good, fine. I have a tendency to believe them more than rabid Tory backbenchers (for example) or even (no offence) internet acquaintances.

if TfL want me to wear one, also fine it’s their train/bus/tram and, again, it costs me next to nothing.

 

[yorkie]

No, nor do I need to. Again, I just don’t feel that strongly either way about this. I don't know if they work or not but it costs me nothing to wear one except an inability to see when my glasses steam up.

No-one is stopping you making the choice to wear an effective mask, an ineffective mask, or no mask

if medical authority says they might do some good, fine. I have a tendency to believe them more than rabid Tory backbenchers (for example).

Did you see the link I've provided in numerous previous threads regarding a real world study comparing the use of tight fitting FFP3 masks (which are designed to filter aerosols) versus the use of loose fitting flimsy masks (which aren't)?

 

[102 fan]

No, nor do I need to. Again, I just don’t feel that strongly either way about this. I don't know if they work or not but it costs me nothing to wear one except an inability to see when my glasses steam up.

if medical authority says they might do some good, fine. I have a tendency to believe them more than rabid Tory backbenchers (for example).

So the fact that they haven't worked in the devolved regions is conveniently overlooked by yourself? Do you always do what you're told without question?

 

[farleigh]

The general fear and anger I see around face masks is something I just don’t understand. They’re as annoying to wear as anything on earth but I really don’t understand the “got to go” stuff. It’s hardly that much of an imposition But if they frighten someone that much then they now don’t have to wear them.

i’m not trying to be provocative, so I hope it’s not taken that way, I simply don’t comprehend the strength of the emotion around this. I find it slightly…bizarre I guess is a good word.

I don't feel fear or anger - I am happy for you or anyone else to wear one.

I think the resentment some feel comes from people trying to force them to wear one.

It is a moot point now as they have lost the argument I feel.

 

[Feathers44]

So the fact that they haven't worked in the devolved regions is conveniently overlooked by yourself? Do you always do what you're told without question?

I’m not going into the “control” or “freedom” stuff I’m afraid that’s just a rather pointless excuse for an argument looking for a target.

i understand the opinions, what no one has yet explained is the vehemence with which they’re held and pushed in a lot of places.

Masks have been as “forced” as seatbelts (road traffic laws) and clothes (public decency laws). Why is a bit of cloth such a big pain point?

Edit: Just to acknowledge the last point really. Why is it an argument and who is it between? Science and politics? Science and different science? It’s a petty argument in either case. I certainly don’t think it justifies tha faux moral outrage I’ve seen elsewhere.

Interesting. Thanks all. I may not be any the wiser but perhaps a little more informed.

 

[Horizon22]

I’m not going into the “control” or “freedom” stuff I’m afraid that’s just a rather pointless excuse for an argument looking for a target.

i understand the opinions, what no one has yet explained is the vehemence with which they’re held and pushed in a lot of places.

Masks have been as “forced” as seatbelts (road traffic laws) and clothes (public decency laws). Why is a bit of cloth such a big pain point?

Edit: Just to acknowledge the last point really. Why is it an argument and who is it between? Science and politics? Science and different science? It’s a petty argument in either case. I certainly don’t think it justifies tha faux moral outrage I’ve seen elsewhere.

Interesting. Thanks all. I may not be any the wiser but perhaps a little more informed.

When seatbelts came in - although before my time - I've definitely seen public information films about them at the time vehemently against them and their freedoms. It might seem a bit ridiculous now, but that was certainly the feeling of some. This forum is probably more extreme than much of society on masks, but there are people who have dug up a lot of data about it. No doubt decades into the future we will also look at things over the past two years as being ridiculous (both too far and too little).

Clothes is a bit of a red herring, as the argument here is primarily around safety.

 

[Bantamzen]

The general fear and anger I see around face masks is something I just don’t understand. They’re as annoying to wear as anything on earth but I really don’t understand the “got to go” stuff. It’s hardly that much of an imposition But if they frighten someone that much then they now don’t have to wear them.

i’m not trying to be provocative, so I hope it’s not taken that way, I simply don’t comprehend the strength of the emotion around this. I find it slightly…bizarre I guess is a good word.

There are so many reasons it would take hours to work through. However here are some quick(ish) points:

• Despite being into the third year of the pandemic, there is still no real proof that masks when used in public, non-medical settings have any real impact on spread. There are numerous studies that have tried to prove their effectiveness but none can come up with any real data. Most conclude that masks may work, but that there might be other factors too. Yet masks are still sold by many politicians around the globe as "following the science".
• In addition to the above, in many countries where mask rules are tighter & compliance higher cases still rise as much as they did here, and sometimes even higher. How can this be when masks "work"?
• At the very start of the pandemic, the World Health Organisation recommended against their use in public settings as they would drive behavioural patterns that might aid the rapid spread of the virus. Despite this many countries went ahead and mandated masks, which seems to have then driven the WHO to flip their advice despite no new evidence coming to light. So was this purely a politically motived change of policy?
• From a societal point of view, many cultures rely on facial expressions as part of communication. Many people don't just listen to what people say, but subconsciously observe people's eyes & mouths to gain more context in a conversation, or where no words are spoken to judge whether someone is friendly, benign or even a possible threat. Masks act as a barrier to these key interactions.
• Face coverings have been used in history & still are in some parts of the world as a means of suppression and dehumanisation. Hence many cultures are naturally adverse to them. They are also often associated with people wishing to conceal their identity in order to commit crime, or hide from authority. If in 2019 you were in a bank and someone walked in wearing a balaclava, what would your reaction have been?
• Finally for now, there is the environmental factor. Imagine 7 billion people using disposable masks correctly, i.e. changing them at least every 4 hours? Even if the average mask use was 2 a day, that would be 14 billion masks to dispose of every single day. Of course this is the extreme limit, but it is safe to say that every day hundreds of millions of disposable masks find their way to landfill sites, or often just left discarded on the streets, or in waterways to make their way to the planet's oceans. In 2019 the world was concerning itself with the impact of disposable consumables. In 2020 it didn't matter any more it seems.

 

[21C101]

The general fear and anger I see around face masks is something I just don’t understand. They’re as annoying to wear as anything on earth but I really don’t understand the “got to go” stuff. It’s hardly that much of an imposition But if they frighten someone that much then they now don’t have to wear them.

i’m not trying to be provocative, so I hope it’s not taken that way, I simply don’t comprehend the strength of the emotion around this. I find it slightly…bizarre I guess is a good word.

Imagine if the government decided that everyone was under spritual threat and decided to make it mandatory for everyone to wear a small brooch on their lapel with (depending on what type of government it was) a cross or a crescent for spiritual welfare reasons which their spritual welfare experts claimed was proven to work despite the only randomised control trial conducted finding it made very little or no difference.

The supporters fiercely denounced those who refused to comply as endangering others.

Many others couldn't see what the fuss was about, after all it was tiny and didn't get in the way, why do people make such a fuss about such a minor inconvenience.

Meanwhile the newspaper columnist Peter Hitchens was denounced by the great and good and ridiculed for refusing to comply and wear a cross brooch, despite being a Christian. Then denounced as a hypocrite when photos emerged showing that he wore one before they became compulsory but stopped when the law started mandating them.

Piers Corbyn went mad meanwhile and started picketing churches, denouncing attenders as "Deluded Cretins" and was fined £10,000 to general acclaim.

 

[Hadders]

I don't know if they work or not but it costs me next to nothing to wear one except an inability to see when my glasses steam up.

A flimsy loose fitting mask can't really be effective if your glasses keep steaming up.

 

[ainsworth74]

Edit: OK at the point of “state control” I’m out. We’re to far into the weird. As I say, that sort of depth of feeling is just incomprehensible.

I must admit that's where I check out also. The fact that they seem ineffective or at least any effect on a population scale seems to be almost undetectable (even if for some individuals who are wearing FFP2/FFP3 masks correctly there is a positive impact on their risk of spreading/catching) is as good a reason as any to do away with any mandating and adopt a sensible each to their own approach (you wanna wear one? Crack on it's no skin off my nose. You don't wanna wear one? crack on it's no skin off my nose). But I just cannot understand how we end up with there being a strong under current to the discussion being that it's all about "state control" and some sort of plan to soften us up for something undefined rather than it just being pathetic politicians desperately grasping for something that makes it look like their not just winging it and so grabbing the first thing any scientist might suggest has an effect and which isn't going to damage the politician's reputation to badly either with those who are in favour of more restrictions or with those who are in favour of fewer restrictions.

It's similar to who I just don't get those who attack more generally the scientists who say things that aren't popular with those that, perfectly understandably and reasonably, want the pandemic to be over and restrictions to end and so then accuse those scientists of having some sort of agenda to "control" the population (see my thread here for more on that).

It's all just so bizarre to me and always feels only a few steps removed from going full Piers Corbyn (which I hope we could all agree one should not do!) or talking about there being a "plandemic".

 

[kristiang85]

There are so many reasons it would take hours to work through. However here are some quick(ish) points:

• Despite being into the third year of the pandemic, there is still no real proof that masks when used in public, non-medical settings have any real impact on spread. There are numerous studies that have tried to prove their effectiveness but none can come up with any real data. Most conclude that masks may work, but that there might be other factors too. Yet masks are still sold by many politicians around the globe as "following the science".
• In addition to the above, in many countries where mask rules are tighter & compliance higher cases still rise as much as they did here, and sometimes even higher. How can this be when masks "work"?
• At the very start of the pandemic, the World Health Organisation recommended against their use in public settings as they would drive behavioural patterns that might aid the rapid spread of the virus. Despite this many countries went ahead and mandated masks, which seems to have then driven the WHO to flip their advice despite no new evidence coming to light. So was this purely a politically motived change of policy?
• From a societal point of view, many cultures rely on facial expressions as part of communication. Many people don't just listen to what people say, but subconsciously observe people's eyes & mouths to gain more context in a conversation, or where no words are spoken to judge whether someone is friendly, benign or even a possible threat. Masks act as a barrier to these key interactions.
• Face coverings have been used in history & still are in some parts of the world as a means of suppression and dehumanisation. Hence many cultures are naturally adverse to them. They are also often associated with people wishing to conceal their identity in order to commit crime, or hide from authority. If in 2019 you were in a bank and someone walked in wearing a balaclava, what would your reaction have been?
• Finally for now, there is the environmental factor. Imagine 7 billion people using disposable masks correctly, i.e. changing them at least every 4 hours? Even if the average mask use was 2 a day, that would be 14 billion masks to dispose of every single day. Of course this is the extreme limit, but it is safe to say that every day hundreds of millions of disposable masks find their way to landfill sites, or often just left discarded on the streets, or in waterways to make their way to the planet's oceans. In 2019 the world was concerning itself with the impact of disposable consumables. In 2020 it didn't matter any more it seems.

Excellent post. I can't add any more.

 

[GC class B1]

To emphasise the stupidly of mask wearing in schools, a school was featured on BBC breakfast this morning where they are still requiring masks in class. The lad next to the teacher was wearing a mask with a valve and the valve was pointing towards the teacher and he stated he believed they protected others. Even scientist have explainEd that masks with valves are totally ineffective and not intended for this purpose. The government and science misinformation is greatly annoying and risks young people believing government lies in the futrue.

 

[John Luxton]

i’m not trying to be provocative, so I hope it’s not taken that way, I simply don’t comprehend the strength of the emotion around this. I find it slightly…bizarre I guess is a good word.

Put it this way masks are not natural.

I reached 60 years of age and had never been asked to wear a mask in my life.

Was a child during the 68/9 flu pandemic and all I recall about that was my mother being ill in bed for a couple of days - no one wore masks and I don't recall it being a big topic of media news at the time either.

Besides when Covid started the so called experts kept telling us masks were not required.

I am still convinced there only purpose was for governments to be seen to be doing something in response to the fears of the "worried well" who through the actions of behavioural insights teams had worked many up into something of a frenzy.

Basically psychological crutches - nothing else.

Masks have been as “forced” as seatbelts (road traffic laws) and clothes (public decency laws). Why is a bit of cloth such a big pain point?

The science behind car seat belts is unquestionable.

Most people know that if a vehicle suddenly stops you will keep moving if not restrained and be more likely injured or killed, in particular in a small vehicle such as a car or van.

Belts became a requirement around the time I passed my driving test in 1982. I never questioned the logic of them.

However, whilst I always wear a seat belt in a car and wouldn't ever think of going even a few yards without one - that's if I could in my current car as an audible warning sounds as well as a warning light.

I still won't wear them on a coach as they are not fitted to buses or trains thus why coaches?

 

[Cdd89]

I just cannot understand how we end up with there being a strong under current to the discussion being that it's all about "state control" and some sort of plan to soften us up for something undefined rather than it just being pathetic politicians desperately grasping for something that makes it look like their not just winging it

I must admit that I also cringe when I read such things. However there is one grain of truth, which is that actions initially imposed with good intentions may get exploited by people (including states) who see opportunities in those actions.

I think it’s verging on the conspiratorial to think this is happening in England, but there are examples. I started a thread on Hong Kong which didn’t really take off, but major/respected Western media outlets, including The Times, have reported on how their Zero Covid approach may be being used to cut the country off from the West and suppress democracy. This is wildly off topic for this thread, but I mention it as an example of where I do believe the “state control” angle has legs (so to speak).

 

[Smidster]

I think for me it comes down to trying to make an assessment of the costs and benefits.

We know that there are costs - They do hinder communication (especially the hard of hearing / kids) , are uncomfortable which may impact (at least it does for me) willingness to go out as well as just the signalling element of somewhere being so dangerous you must where "protective" equipment. I am pleased that you and many others do not find them to be much of a burden but that is not the case for everyone.

So then we look to the benefits and to be clear if there were clear health benefits I would support them but there just aren't. The evidence that they make anything but the most marginal impact on transmission is negligible and even less for the types of cloth facial decoration that most have and they are being used in settings where transmission really doesn't happen anyway.

If people choose to wear them that is their right and there are options which can, if used as diligently as a Surgeon would in theatre, provide them with genuine protection but that should always be a personal decision and not imposed on everyone when the case is so flimsy and the appropriate response for most should be to get their vaccines and get on with life - time is risk as well.

 

[scarby]

Mod Note: Posts #1 - #15 originally in this thread.

The general fear and anger I see around face masks is something I just don’t understand. They’re as annoying to wear as anything on earth but I really don’t understand the “got to go” stuff. It’s hardly that much of an imposition But if they frighten someone that much then they now don’t have to wear them.

i’m not trying to be provocative, so I hope it’s not taken that way, I simply don’t comprehend the strength of the emotion around this. I find it slightly…bizarre I guess is a good word.

I don't feel fear about them. But personally I find face masks incredibly dystopian.

Living in Sweden, where their use is rare, so I am not and never have become used to it, when I go abroad (as I am now, in France), I find it quite depressing to see everybody in masks. We need to see people's faces to communicate properly - to smile (or even to scowl), to flirt, to show you are open to communication, to show you are pleased with another person, to bring a bit of light into another person's day.

From an outside view I find it just incredible that people around the world have complied with this, but human obedience seems to be so embedded that if people were told by the authorities they had to burn their own home down and go and live in a communal barracks they would do that as well.

Where I am in France, where mask enforcement is so embedded, there is a drawing on a local timetable leaflet of a person wearing a mask, staring down at their phone (presumably to get travel info). It is such a depressing and dystopian image.

 

[Y Ddraig Coch]

And I'll add to that: how come France had over 2 million infections in a week?

Also, we've been here before: on 19 July 2021 the mask mandate ended in England; what happened? Cases plummeted in England while remaining stubbornly high for a while elsewhere in the UK.

@Feathers44 this is all explained in various threads, including the following:

• Masks again
• Fight on a train over masks
• Has the wearing of face masks become a left/right issue?
• The case for and against the effectiveness of face coverings and the mandating of their use

If you want to wear a mask (perhaps you distrust the vaccines?) you are welcome to wear a highly effective FFP3 mask which offers close to 100% protection (when correctly worn, providing they are also stored/handled correctly); you then don't need to worry about whether other people are wearing flimsy, loose fitting masks, or not.

That simply isn't true, look at the cases in Wales & Scotland compared to England on the 30th July just after the masks stopped being mandatory in England. They are much higher in England in all areas.

Interactive map of cases | Coronavirus in the UK (data.gov.uk)

 

[MikeWM]

When seatbelts came in - although before my time - I've definitely seen public information films about them at the time vehemently against them and their freedoms. It might seem a bit ridiculous now, but that was certainly the feeling of some.

Before my time too, so I'm not certain what the arguments were on the 'shouldn't be made law' side, but it seems one rather good argument is the usual 'slippery slope' perspective - if the government can *force* me to do this 'for my own good', what else may that later extend to?

Such an argument has a reasonable degree of merit in my view - after all, how many billions of times has the example of seatbelts been used over the past couple of years as part of an argument for making various Covid measures mandatory?

 

[NorthOxonian]

For me it's a visceral thing. I just find the sight of masks dystopian and dispiriting - especially when you see people walking down the street on their own wearing one. A lot of the people who argue for masks claim it makes people feel safe - while I'm sure that's true for some it has the exact opposite effect on me. I can't rationally expain it - but having tried many times it isn't something I can get over.

I think the other issue I have is the way some seem to want them to become a permanent part of our way of life. I made the mistake of looking at Twitter last night, and I saw so many people saying things like, "I'm going to wear my mask forever!" or "They wear them in Asia so why should we stop?". I don't think I'd have so much of a problem with masks if I thought they were temporary - but the thought of seeing them for the rest of my life really does frighten me. Even if it's only 5-10% of people wearing them, that small minority will be enough for me to never really feel like we're back to normal.

 

[Smidster]

That simply isn't true, look at the cases in Wales & Scotland compared to England on the 30th July just after the masks stopped being mandatory in England. They are much higher in England in all areas.

Interactive map of cases | Coronavirus in the UK (data.gov.uk)

View attachment 109014

You can't really use data for a single day as evidence one way or the other - It is the case that cases were rising in England and then fell after "freedom day" although most of that is thought to be because of the Euros when you had lots of gatherings going on.

In the longer term between July and November the rates for Wales , Scotland and England are all very similar and indeed there was a long period where rates for Sco / Wales were higher than in England despite having more restrictions.

Now of course there will be other things at play such as previous infection etc but in the round the evidence for masks - especially when you have a much more contagious variant like Omicron - is scant.

 

[ainsworth74]

especially when you see people walking down the street on their own wearing one

It's the people in cars that get me! You're sat in a car by yourself why on earth are you wearing a face covering?!? Two people in car fine, could be giving a someone a lift and using high levels of caution (though you'd be better just cranking the window and letting fresh air do the job). But sat by yourself in your car? Bizarre.

 

[kristiang85]

It's the people in cars that get me! You're sat in a car by yourself why on earth are you wearing a face covering?!? Two people in car fine, could be giving a someone a lift and using high levels of caution (though you'd be better just cranking the window and letting fresh air do the job). But sat by yourself in your car? Bizarre.

Probably the same reason why most of these people have an NHS and EU bumper sticker...

 

[yorkie]

That simply isn't true, look at the cases in Wales & Scotland compared to England on the 30th July just after the masks stopped being mandatory in England. They are much higher in England in all areas.

Interactive map of cases | Coronavirus in the UK (data.gov.uk)

View attachment 109014

If you look a little later than that, you will see that after the initial fall after 19th July relaxations, cases then stablished and didn't really peak in England until the onset of Omicron.

In contrast, Scotland had a large spike in the Summer, just after the date you quoted.





There is no evidence that the mandating of masks does anything to reduce case rates.

Before my time too, so I'm not certain what the arguments were on the 'shouldn't be made law' side, but it seems one rather good argument is the usual 'slippery slope' perspective - if the government can *force* me to do this 'for my own good', what else may that later extend to?

Such an argument has a reasonable degree of merit in my view - after all, how many billions of times has the example of seatbelts been used over the past couple of years as part of an argument for making various Covid measures mandatory?

If anyone wants to talk about analogies, seat belts are like vaccines. It's ludicrous to compare seat belts to masks.

If anyone really wants to compare seat belts with masks, then I would ask if seat belts are to be worn, should they be made of effective materials designed to cope well in a crash, or would we say that people would be free to wear flimsy loose fitting seat belts made of materials that are not in any way designed for that purpose on the basis that "anything is better than nothing" even if real world studies demonstrated that injuries by those wearing flimsy seat belts occured at a rate 47 times greater than injuries by those wearing seat belts designed for that purpose.