When Will It All Go Wrong For The Tories/ Johnson?

[Yew]

rather worrying Momentum movement which had agendas that many people of differing political hues would not accept.

Surely that can be said for any political party or group? I note that you are also misrepresenting your opinion as fact here.

 

[Ediswan]

New road signs will no longer show distances in kilometres. Just the way that existing signs don't.

Except those which do: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driver_location_sign

Driver location signs are signs placed every 500 metres (550 yd) along each side of English motorways, and some other major English roads, to provide information that will allow motorists to know their precise location. As of July 2009, roads in England, but not Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland, have these signs. This information might be useful in the event of an emergency or breakdown. They were first introduced in 2003, and they complement distance marker posts (small roadside posts used for road maintenance and administrative purposes). Both types of sign display a unique location number. The number, although given without units, is the distance in kilometres from a designated datum location for the road, although signs meant for driver navigation are in miles.

 

[birchesgreen]

The difference between Momentum and another extremist group like Britannia Unchained is that the latter is in power.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The difference between Momentum and another extremist group like Britannia Unchained is that the latter is in power.

It appears that the electorate had heard much about Momentum in the media leading up to that General Election, but I cannot recall Britannia Unchained as a named entity having much in the way of media coverage at the time.

 

[birchesgreen]

It appears that the electorate had heard much about Momentum in the media leading up to that General Election, but I cannot recall Britannia Unchained as a named entity having much in the way of media coverage at the time.

I wonder why that is.

 

[brad465]

The Sunday Times are reporting that Senior Officials watered down the Sue Gray report to remove key information:

Muzzled? How senior officials fought to water down Sue Gray report

When Boris Johnson got Sue Gray’s final report on the parties scandal, the paper was still warm from the printer. It was Wednesday morning and the prime minister was in his office with Steve Barclay, his chief of staff, and Guto Harri, his director of communications. Samantha Jones, the permanent se

www.thetimes.co.uk

When Boris Johnson got Sue Gray’s final report on the parties scandal, the paper was still warm from the printer. It was Wednesday morning and the prime minister was in his office with Steve Barclay, his chief of staff, and Guto Harri, his director of communications. Samantha Jones, the permanent secretary at No 10, rushed the report in, pages still loose.

They had expected the document at 8am. It was now 10am and they had just an hour to prepare Johnson’s statement to the Commons and pass it to Sir Lindsay Hoyle, the Speaker, and Sir Keir Starmer, the leader of the opposition. Johnson and Barclay began to read while Harri flicked to the end to read the conclusions. Then the silence was shattered...

"It's not the crime, it's the cover up."

 

[jon0844]

I would quite like petrol and diesel to be sold in gallons at the pump.

I bet there's nothing stopping that already, but as said - who wants to show fuel at £5, £6 or £7 a gallon?

I think we can be pretty certain that most petrol stations would refuse, or just claim it to be too hard (cost of upgrading digital signs), to do it anyway (but that then gives the Daily Express and Daily Mail loads of stories for months about how they're caving in to the EU*).

Surely most people who only understand imperial measurements are pretty old now and have either adapted, or know how to convert - either from memory or a calculator. Oh, and the fact many products have both measurements anyway.

What next? Change our currency also?

* I know the EU has nothing to do with the metric system, but does everyone?

 

[87 027]

I note that you are also misrepresenting your opinion as fact here.

I also note @Xenophon PCDGS hasn't substantively addressed the points made in the posts at #2838 and #2843 above

Personally I am politically neutral, I think we are some way off the next general election and it will be decided on the choices facing the electorate at the time - which could be very different from today.

 

[birchesgreen]

What next? Change our currency also?

I half expect him to announce the banning of streaming video and the return of VHS.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

And yet another story to try and distract:

Boris Johnson to reportedly bring back imperial measurements to mark platinum jubilee

Move is an apparent attempt to win support from Brexit voters in seats Tories fear losing

www.theguardian.com

Is it the new law amongst Government opponents now that *everything* the Government does has to be interpreted as an attempt to try to distract, rather than (more sensibly) the Government doing stuff that they believe in?

As I understand it, the proposals are to end the current ban on shops from using imperial units - so those retailers that wish to use imperial units may do so. Personally, I have rather mixed feelings about it - but it's something that's been talked about for a long time as a consequence of Brexit (although obviously pushed to the sidelines in Covid times) so hardly anything new. See for example, this report from last year: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58597693. What's been announced over the last few days is only a review, not any definite legislation, so the headline in the Guardian seems a tad misleading to me.

 

[Shrop]

Except those which do: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driver_location_sign

True, but these are for a different purpose. When the new (and still current) Traffic Signs Regulations were issued in 2016, it was actually illegal for local authorities to show distances to towns and cities in kilometres. Similarly with distances to road junctions, which have to be shown in yards and NOT metres. But ... bridge height warnings MUST be shown in metres.
You might think this is confusing, and double standards. Hmm, double standards? Now that brings something else to mind ...

 

[Typhoon]

I bet there's nothing stopping that already, but as said - who wants to show fuel at £5, £6 or £7 a gallon?

I think we can be pretty certain that most petrol stations would refuse, or just claim it to be too hard (cost of upgrading digital signs), to do it anyway

Using the RAC average costs, diesel is just over £8.25 a gallon which is probably too close to £10 for comfort

Surely most people who only understand imperial measurements are pretty old now and have either adapted, or know how to convert - either from memory or a calculator. Oh, and the fact many products have both measurements anyway.

True. When I started in education, over half a century ago, we were teaching metric (although I think we used imperial for surveying) so I would be surprised if there are more than a handful who hanker for the return of Imperial. One, of course, who might be is the Minister for Brexit Opportunities but I am sure that most cabinet members would see it as a potential minefield, recalling the difficulty the likes of Johnson and Cameron had remembering how much bread costs; the cost of petrol in Imperial units would defeat most of them.

 

[Falcon1200]

And yet another story to try and distract:

Maybe worth highlighting;

The story is in the Guardian (only ?), not exactly a Tory-friendly newspaper;
The word 'reportedly' is used - So where has this story come from ?;
All that is mentioned is allowing pounds and ounces to be used - No mention of any other measurement.

Personally I never understood the fuss about having to sell, for example, fruit and veg in metric ONLY measurements; Use metric by all means but why not allow imperial as well ?
And I doubt that being able to buy, say, a pound instead of a kilo of apples again is really going to win Boris the next election.

 

[jfollows]

And I doubt that being able to buy, say, a pound instead of a kilo of apples again is really going to win Boris the next election.

I just have a feeling, and it's only that, I can't substantiate it, that there's a significant number of voters who would vote for a party with these sorts of policies, I agree with you that it's nonsense and irrelevant to us, but people who vote do so in the strangest of ways.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Can anyone confirm that the matter in question was actually included in the Conservative Party manifesto prior to the last General Election?

 

[317 forever]

40.0% was a good result for Labour, but definitely not it's 2nd highest share in history. As I recall, Labour got well above 40% in every election between 1945 and 1970, and also in 1997 and 2001. It was the highest vote share Labour has ever achieved since 2001 though.

Labour also achieved more votes in 2017 than in their 2001 landslide.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Labour also achieved more votes in 2017 than in their 2001 landslide.

But that did not translate into winning that particular 2017 General Election.

 

[317 forever]

The coming by-elections might make the trickle become a deluge. The Honiton and Tiverton result, if the Tories lose or only just hold onto it, is much more significant in my eyes because nowhere is more solid Conservative territory currently than S.W. England. Watch the rabbit MPs scurrying back to their burrows before they re-emerge en masse to make the surprise announcement that some of them have discovered an unused part of their anatomies i.e. a backbone. Hopefully it will not save too many of them, though the Member for the British Virgin Islands might survive.

If the Tories lose the Tiverton & Honiton by-election it may well send shock waves through the Parliamentary party in view of the swing involved.

Their loss of Wakefield is almost inevitable and could be played down, unless the swing to Labour is huge.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Using the RAC average costs, diesel is just over £8.25 a gallon which is probably too close to £10 for comfort

Can someone say how much per gallon in the "just over £8.25" quoted figure is made up of fuel tax?

 

[317 forever]

Been looking a bit at electoralcalculus.co.uk and their predictions.

Not sure what their methodology is, or whether it's accurate, but currently they are suggesting hung parliament with Labour the largest party. Obviously that's just a snapshot of now.

Some interesting patterns in the predicted seat changes. One of the seats predicted to flip is somewhere called Uxbridge and South Ruislip. Will its incumbent stay to fight the seat or flee to a true-blue rural seat?

Interesting regional patterns in the predictions: Cannock Chase, a former Labour seat and former seat of highly-controversial Tory Aiden Burley (which you might think might put certain voters off), appears to now be a safe true-blue Tory stronghold. Contrast that to places like Crawley and Milton Keynes which are predicted to flip.

On the other hand, they are predicting Hartlepool to be Labour with a reasonable majority, that's perhaps enough to be somewhat sceptical about their model - as if it hasn't fully factored in recent swings.

The honourable member for Uxbridge & South Ruislip could go on the chicken run to Reigate & Banstead.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

If the Tories lose the Tiverton & Honiton by-election it may well send shock waves through the Parliamentary party in view of the swing involved.

Their loss of Wakefield is almost inevitable and could be played down, unless the swing to Labour is huge.

I am sure that the predicted loss in the Tiverton & Honiton will not "send shock-waves" through the incumbent parliamentary party, as this has been the case in certain by-elections over the years in differing areas of the country under both Conservative and Labour administrations.

 

[SteveM70]

Can someone say how much per gallon in the "just over £8.25" quoted figure is made up of fuel tax?

Fuel duty on diesel is 57.95ppl so £2.63 per gallon

VAT is 20% on both product cost and fuel duty so a pump price of £8.25 means £1.375 is VAT

Therefore the total tax take is £4 plus half a penny

 

[nw1]

The honourable member for Uxbridge & South Ruislip could go on the chicken run to Reigate & Banstead.

I was going to suggest hopping on the Tube at Uxbridge and crossing London to the other terminus... but it doesn't look like either line from Uxbridge ends in a safe Tory seat.

 

[brad465]

Is it the new law amongst Government opponents now that *everything* the Government does has to be interpreted as an attempt to try to distract, rather than (more sensibly) the Government doing stuff that they believe in?

As I understand it, the proposals are to end the current ban on shops from using imperial units - so those retailers that wish to use imperial units may do so. Personally, I have rather mixed feelings about it - but it's something that's been talked about for a long time as a consequence of Brexit (although obviously pushed to the sidelines in Covid times) so hardly anything new. See for example, this report from last year: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58597693. What's been announced over the last few days is only a review, not any definite legislation, so the headline in the Guardian seems a tad misleading to me.

Johnson has form for "dead cat throwing" as it's sometimes known. Not everything he's done is to distract I agree, but a lot of stories exist at least in part to distract from something else. This article from the FT when more covid restrictions were brought in last winter even used the term "dead cat":

Subscribe to the Financial Times

A subscription to the Financial Times provides you with the insights and perspective you need to succeed, now.

on.ft.com

Boris Johnson looked strained as he entered the House of Commons..., hoping that a “dead cat” and an apology over Downing Street parties would dig him out of his latest political hole...

The technique even has its own Wikipedia page, citing Lynton Crosby as the master of it, who also advises Boris Johnson.

I don't really see imperial units taking off again in the way being looked at in this review, the metric system is much simpler (which is its intention) and has been in use long enough that I doubt few establishments will use them, and if they do they'd likely also have metric values clearly labelled as well.

 

[dosxuk]

Maybe worth highlighting;

The story is in the Guardian (only ?), not exactly a Tory-friendly newspaper;
The word 'reportedly' is used - So where has this story come from ?;
All that is mentioned is allowing pounds and ounces to be used - No mention of any other measurement.

Also mentioned in the decidedly more Tory-friendly Sunday Telegraph.

A government source said: "We measure our walks in miles and our beer and milk by the pint. And nobody knows what a four-and-a-half-kilo baby looks like, but we all know a 10-pounder is a whopper. It's time we held our heads high about our long history of traditional measures.
The source added: "And what better way to celebrate Her Majesty's Platinum Jubilee than restoring the crown emblem back onto the side of pint glasses so that we can toast her health and service to this country?"

Who knew that is was the lack of crown symbol on pint glasses that was preventing us from toasting the queen?

Peter Bone, a prominent Tory Brexiteer, said it was "common sense" to look at using imperial measurements again, not least because on of Britain's biggest trading partners is the US, which uses that weights and measures system."

Bonus points for the Tory Brexiteer demonstrating his lack of knowledge on a subject that's close to his heart, as the US imperial measurements are different to those formerly used in the UK, and that a large part of US business is now working solely in metric because the rest of the world does.

Personally I never understood the fuss about having to sell, for example, fruit and veg in metric ONLY measurements; Use metric by all means but why not allow imperial as well ?

The point is that if you can label things differently it becomes impossible for people to compare. And if retailers can choose the measurement, they can use that to measure different things in the most advantageous measurement for them.

It's much easier on everyone to say everything is weighed in kilos, and you can show an imperial measurement for ease of use.

And I doubt that being able to buy, say, a pound instead of a kilo of apples again is really going to win Boris the next election.

It's the sort of story that sits well with the ex-UKIP / ex-Labour supporters who still want to stick one to the Europeans, an group of supporters that the Tory party are rather keen to prop up around now.

 

[nw1]

Johnson has form for "dead cat throwing" as it's sometimes known. Not everything he's done is to distract I agree, but a lot of stories exist at least in part to distract from something else. This article from the FT when more covid restrictions were brought in last winter even used the term "dead cat":

Subscribe to the Financial Times

A subscription to the Financial Times provides you with the insights and perspective you need to succeed, now.

on.ft.com

The technique even has its own Wikipedia page, citing Lynton Crosby as the master of it, who also advises Boris Johnson.

I don't really see imperial units taking off again in the way being looked at in this review, the metric system is much simpler (which is its intention) and has been in use long enough that I doubt few establishments will use them, and if they do they'd likely also have metric values clearly labelled as well.

With the caveat it may indeed just be a "dead cat"...

Given imperial units were deprecated for most things (with a few exceptions, such as beer and road distances) in around 1971, it seems crazy to focus on something like this.

What is the point of this? Granted the more conservative members of the generation who grew up before then might lap it up, but they are scarcely the demographic likely to swing elections.

It just sounds like a rejection of modernism for the sake of it. Just as Brexit was; a similar desire to turn the clock back to the period before the early 70s.

Like making a thing of blue passports. Again antimodernism for the sake of it, and no more.

 

[Gloster]

The crown was never banned on pint glasses by the EU. All that happened was that glasses to the approved standards were to have a CE mark. There was nothing to prevent there being a crown on it as well, so long as it didn’t overlap the CE mark or cause confusion. Any advice that might have been given to cease using it seems to be as a result of over-interpretation of the rules by the British Government, despite clear statements by the EU. There was also the problem that, as it seems that many glasses are produced in Czechia, there would have been increased costs as glasses for Britain would have to be finished separately. (Or so I understand.)

 

[nw1]

The crown was never banned on pint glasses by the EU. All that happened was that glasses to the approved standards were to have a CE mark. There was nothing to prevent there being a crown on it as well, so long as it didn’t overlap the CE mark or cause confusion. Any advice that might have been given to cease using it seems to be as a result of over-interpretation of the rules by the British Government, despite clear statements by the EU. There was also the problem that, as it seems that many glasses are produced in Czechia, there would have been increased costs as glasses for Britain would have to be finished separately. (Or so I understand.)

And quite frankly, who gives a damn whether there is a crown on a pint glass or not?

Does it make the beer taste better? Of course not.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

On an associated matter, it always seems the case that on the definitive postage stamps of this country (not the other regular series set versions), has always carried a head image of the reigning monarch.

 

[jfollows]

The point is that if you can label things differently it becomes impossible for people to compare. And if retailers can choose the measurement, they can use that to measure different things in the most advantageous measurement for them.

I agree; of particular value are the labels in my local supermarket which are probably required but may be in response to customer demand in which most items are both priced and come with a "pence per kg" price. Of course if the latter were changed consistently to "groats per ounce" then it wouldn't matter, as long as the comparison could be made. I'm sure many of us know that it's often the case that smaller items can be cheaper than larger ones, so buying a number of smaller packets can work out cheaper than one large packet, and the pricing labels are very helpful here.