birchesgreen
Established Member
Well its in the Mail as well if thats more your cup of tea.
Well its in the Mail as well if thats more your cup of tea.
Too true. As do 'Express' and 'Telegraph', two other papers I treat with scepticism.Not wanting to defend the Tory MP if the allegations are indeed true, but... that also begins with "Daily".
I suspect that the vast majority of MPs know who the person arrested is, and I think I do too, thanks to the Internet, although I'm not going to name him here - there are plenty of places where he's been named for anyone who wants to do a bit of searching.These are serious accusations. If they are true, we will doubtless find out in time. My concern is that someone will be named and shamed because they were not in Parliament last week for an entirely different reason than being told to stay away.
Oh, I don't disagree with that. I always thought that the Major era (Cash for Questions, Back to Basics - Mellor and Yeo, Aitken) was a low point but the current situation threatens to dwarf that. Major seemed unable to do anything to stop the events, Johnson seems unwilling to do so (as shown by Paterson and only 'Partygate' loser so far didn't even attend one).I think y'all missing the point, its just yet another scandal to add to the endless dripping tap of sleaze. Anyway lets await next week's one.
They voted Lib Dems, but some people ignore that because it could destroy the 'them vs us' party system.If all is as bad as most everyone on here feel it is, taking England as an example, why did the Labour Party make so few aggregate seat gains in the recent local elections? It is the people having their chance to voice their opinions at such times.
Wouldn't it be easier to list all the male MPs not currently under investigation?Big IF.
Later on in the piece it states
However, sooner of later, the name will come out in the media and his career will be trashed whether guilty or innocent.
When someone I trust prints it, I might believe it but that someone won't begin with 'Daily'.
Quite right - also some voted Green. Some may have followed the advice of the Party Politicals and voted on local issues rather national ones. Most stayed at home as they always do for local elections.They voted Lib Dems, but some people ignore that because it could destroy the 'them vs us' party system.
I admit I might be a little biased. I like to see Lib Dems doing well and highlight it because I want to see them upset the balance of power.Quite right - also some voted Green. Some may have followed the advice of the Party Politicals and voted on local issues rather national ones. Most stayed at home as they always do for local elections.
Isn't that what casting your vote on your perceived vision of what your local council has met the wishes of the local electorate in local elections is supposed to be all about? Was what occurred in Hull a case of a council being seen by its local electorate as not being good enough dealing with local issues?Some may have followed the advice of the Party Politicals and voted on local issues rather national ones.
You are right. That is why the Conservative vote held up to some extent. My issue is with this Prime Minister and (some) members of his cabinet. Maybe I am wrong but in #2587, you asked why Labour didn't make more gains. Part of the reason is that some Labour councils are rubbish, stuck in an ideological backwater (I'm reminded of the Kinnock speech), just as some Conservative ones are. Some Labour Councils are OK (or better) and that is where they will have made gains. It had nothing to do with Johnson but, in my eyes, he is the problem, not the party.Isn't that what casting your vote on your perceived vision of what your local council has met the wishes of the local electorate in local elections is supposed to be all about? Was what occurred in Hull a case of a council being seen by its local electorate as not being good enough dealing with local issues?
What you have to look at is the Tories lost over 1300 seats in the 2019 local elections and then added to that deficit with another 500 seats in the recent local elections. Those seats have gone to other parties but largely liberals and greens and herein lies the rub that will keep the Tories in power unless the opposition parties work together.If all is as bad as most everyone on here feel it is, taking England as an example, why did the Labour Party make so few aggregate seat gains in the recent local elections? It is the people having their chance to voice their opinions at such times.
Still a very strange matter in that the Labour Party, despite divesting itself from the Corbyn/Momentum connections and having had a new leader in Starmer and being the accepted main opposition political party, with the Conservatives losing the number of seats over the last two local elections that you state above, why was it in England that the Labour Party were not the main recipients of the stated lack of popularity of the Conservatives with the electorate who cast their votes and the reasons why that did not occur?What you have to look at is the Tories lost over 1300 seats in the 2019 local elections and then added to that deficit with another 500 seats in the recent local elections. Those seats have gone to other parties but largely liberals and greens and herein lies the rub that will keep the Tories in power unless the opposition parties work together.
Maybe many voters have had enough of the two main parties and want to vote elsewhere if they believe this will deliver. We saw a similar situation with the rise (and fall) of UKIP, which caused the Tory party to shift further towards UKIP alignment to avoid losing too many votes, knowing that their more moderate support would still prefer them over Corbyn's Labour. While it seems common for voters to directly switch from Tory-Labour and vice versa, the Lib Dems are arguably aligned in the middle of the two, and there have been voters recently, including in 2 Lib Dem by-election victories in this Parliament, who have had enough of the Tories for whatever reason, but probably haven't shifted left enough to get beyond Lib Dem alignment.Still a very strange matter in that the Labour Party, despite divesting itself from the Corbyn/Momentum connections and having had a new leader in Starmer and being the accepted main opposition political party, with the Conservatives losing the number of seats over the last two local elections that you state above, why was it in England that the Labour Party were not the main recipients of the stated lack of popularity of the Conservatives with the electorate who cast their votes and the reasons why that did not occur?
This would also explain why a number of Tory losses have not translated into a number of Labour gains, as in council elections, the higher number of seats and smaller populations in each one compared to General Elections allows smaller parties to fare better, despite the same voting system.
As an example, my local council area is split into two parliamentary constituencies (jointly they cover the exact same area as the local council). Both have returned Conservative MPs pretty much for ever, with the exception of 1997 when both went Labour. Yet the Conservatives have not had a majority on the council since 1982. The current council is a Labour/Lib Dem coalition. This demonstrates the need for caution when trying to predict national election results based on the outcome of council elections.
Having said that the Lib Dems gained quite a few votes last election and with the ward I live in (which has always voted Tory locally) it was a case that if the few hundred who voted Labour had voted Lib Dems the majority would have been the same but not for the Tories as it was fairly tight.
Is this the same Labour Party that in 2017 achieved it's second highest share of the vote (40%) in history?I very much doubt many people truly like him, bar anyone who he paid off.
He was the lesser of 'two evils' compared to Labour, and whether you agree with that or not, it speaks volumes that Labour is seen as worse than the Conservatives, and could still find a way to lose the next election.
Until we have a credible opposition, he'll likely (or at least the Conservatives will likely) stay.
If only there was some sort of system where that could happen automatically in the voting system.Having said that the Lib Dems gained quite a few votes last election and with the ward I live in (which has always voted Tory locally) it was a case that if the few hundred who voted Labour had voted Lib Dems the majority would have been the same but not for the Tories as it was fairly tight.
Yet were still unable to form a Labour government.Is this the same Labour Party that in 2017 achieved it's second highest share of the vote (40%) in history?
Is this the same Labour Party that in 2017 achieved it's second highest share of the vote (40%) in history?
What was the Labour Party share of the vote in the last General Election?40.0% was a good result for Labour, but definitely not it's 2nd highest share in history. As I recall, Labour got well above 40% in every election between 1945 and 1970, and also in 1997 and 2001. It was the highest vote share Labour has ever achieved since 2001 though.
I live somewhere where locally Lib Dems do well but nationally it's a very safe Tory seat.
Having said that the Lib Dems gained quite a few votes last election and with the ward I live in (which has always voted Tory locally) it was a case that if the few hundred who voted Labour had voted Lib Dems the majority would have been the same but not for the Tories as it was fairly tight.
I suspect that at the next national elections there'll be more of a swing towards the Lib Dems, whether it'll be enough to win is another matter. However the local elections do indicate a trend away from the Tories which had already been seen at the General Election and so it could continue at the next General Election.
I suspect that feat of Labour is a factor, however there's the possibility that there's a fear that 5 more years of Boris might be worse.
At least in coalition the Lib Dems moderated the Tories and could probably do the same to Labour (although there's probably a fair few on lower incomes, which may even be those on a little above average pay, who are starting to think that something that helps them a bit more and is less concerned about upsetting the very rich is probably a good thing).
It's also a ward which seems to be swinging away from the Tories in any case due to its demographics. If parliamentary seats similar in nature to this ward swing away from the Tories in the next election we might see the "Blue Wall" start to crumble properly.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_United_Kingdom_general_election says 32.1%What was the Labour Party share of the vote in the last General Election?
It's this attempting to defend the indefensible that makes it worse. They may have been under "extraordinary pressure", but so were lots of other people. My friend was under "extraordinary pressure" when his dad died from Covid while his mum was in ICO. But they still stuck to the 'only six people allowed at a funeral' rule.Someone called Simon Clarke MP, apparently Cheif Secretary to the Treasury, has tried to imply that "extraordinary pressure" caused people in Downing Street to break the law. He goes on to say "that in no way diminishes the seriousness of what happened" but that's clearly what he's trying to do by saying what he has said.
Do these people realise that they're inhabiting a bubble in Westminster and that a lot of us hold them in contempt for their hypocrisy and entitlement?
Maybe they don't care, if they don't rely on my vote to get re-elected then clearly they don't, but it's a continuing insult to those who obeyed the law rigorously and had real jobs which make the jobs of politicians pale into banality.
Yes I think had they just come clean, admitted all wrongdoing and accepted associated fines while telling the truth to Parliament then Partygate would have ended a long time ago, and Johnson may even have still been able to hold onto PM with enough remorse and truthfulness. But as you say the covering up/denial is only making it worse and prolonging it, while also sacrificing others to save himself. The problem with Johnsonism is eventually you run out of other people to throw under a bus.It's this attempting to defend the indefensible that makes it worse. They may have been under "extraordinary pressure", but so were lots of other people. My friend was under "extraordinary pressure" when his dad died from Covid while his mum was in ICO. But they still stuck to the 'only six people allowed at a funeral' rule.
Boris Johnson has been pictured drinking at an event in Downing Street during lockdown.
ITV News has published four photos, saying they were taken on 13 November 2020 at a leaving do for the PM's director of communications, Lee Cain.