ASLEF accept (subject to members agreement) 5% Scotrail Pay Offer

[Huntergreed]

News just in:

The train drivers' union Aslef has rejected the latest 4.2% pay offer from ScotRail.
The union's national executive said it would ballot for industrial action unless ScotRail offers further talks.

(https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-61664953)

Disappointing from the passenger perspective, and clearly means this disruption will last a while longer. Are they going to push for 5%+ I wonder, or will they only accept their requested 9%?

 

[507020]

News just in:


(https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-61664953)

Disappointing from the passenger perspective, and clearly means this disruption will last a while longer. Are they going to push for 5%+ I wonder, or will they only accept their requested 9%?

If inflation is >9%, then anything below this constitutes a pay cut in real terms, so I do wonder…

 

[PaulMc7]

News just in:


(https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-61664953)

Disappointing from the passenger perspective, and clearly means this disruption will last a while longer. Are they going to push for 5%+ I wonder, or will they only accept their requested 9%?

I'd be amazed if they budge from 9% to be honest. It's a guaranteed ticket price increase for passengers off of the back of it too if they do get it

 

[Ex-controller]

I do wonder where we go if this dispute continues.

ScotRail being unable to provide any reasonable return service from Glasgow Central or Queen Street tonight after the Scotland v Ukraine match is a pretty big deal. If this sort of unreliability continues over the summer there’s potential for reputational damage that could take years to fix - and that’s on top of the rest of the Abellio/Covid hangover. My fear is that both sides won’t baulk at the railway being decimated in Scotland for years to come, so it’s not off the table.

 

[hello]

I wonder if any of the Scotrail directors have had any pay rises/bonuses this year

 

[Horizon22]

This is going to set an interesting precedent for the rest of the railway. I really fear this is going to end up as a long-term stalemate considering that 4.2% is quite decent (in times of normal inflation) and that Scotrail have previously said "the new pay offer was final and could not be improved". Ultimately its the passengers who are going to suffer considerably and morale will also fall off a cliff.

 

[dk1]

This is going to set an interesting precedent for the rest of the railway. I really fear this is going to end up as a long-term stalemate considering that 4.2% is quite decent (in times of normal inflation) and that Scotrail have previously said "the new pay offer was final and could not be improved". Ultimately its the passengers who are going to suffer considerably and morale will also fall off a cliff.

But to be honest, I’ve heard that “this is the final offer” so many times over the years but magically some more appears out of the hat at a later date.

 

[andystock22]

I'd personally like to see pay increases linked to passenger growth and freight growth across the industry.

Do this would really focus the industry on adapting to new consumer trends.

 

[PaulMc7]

I'd personally like to see pay increases linked to passenger growth and freight growth across the industry.

Do this would really focus the industry on adapting to new consumer trends.

I agree with this to be fair but in reality it will take a lot to get a lot of growth with ticket prices as they are. It's too expensive compared to alternatives in a lot of places.

 

[43066]

This is going to set an interesting precedent for the rest of the railway. I really fear this is going to end up as a long-term stalemate considering that 4.2% is quite decent (in times of normal inflation) and that Scotrail have previously said "the new pay offer was final and could not be improved". Ultimately its the passengers who are going to suffer considerably and morale will also fall off a cliff.

It’s certainly difficult to see how any *less* than that can credibly now be offered elsewhere.

I'd personally like to see pay increases linked to passenger growth and freight growth across the industry.

Do this would really focus the industry on adapting to new consumer trends.

No problem with that for those in the business who are charged with actually increasing demand. That doesn’t include many operational grades, however, who have no control whatsoever over this aspect of the business.

There are some limited aspects of traincrew remuneration which tend in this direction, for example commission on ticket sales acts provided an incentive for guards to maximise revenue.

 

[mmh]

No problem with that for those in the business who are charged with actually increasing demand. That doesn’t include many operational grades, however, who have no control whatsoever over this aspect of the business.

There are some limited aspects of traincrew remuneration which tend in this direction, for example commission on ticket sales acts provided an incentive for guards to maximise revenue.

However "operational grades" have decided it's a better idea to push online and app ticket buying, thereby reducing the number of tickets guards can sell and the commission paid by companies.

 

[theking]

I'd personally like to see pay increases linked to passenger growth and freight growth across the industry.

Do this would really focus the industry on adapting to new consumer trends.

Lucky you're not in charge then.

How on earth do drivers have any influence on passenger or freight growth.

They drive the train safely and efficiently they have no say in anything to do with passenger growth or attracting passengers to the railways.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

This is going to set an interesting precedent for the rest of the railway. I really fear this is going to end up as a long-term stalemate considering that 4.2% is quite decent (in times of normal inflation) and that Scotrail have previously said "the new pay offer was final and could not be improved". Ultimately its the passengers who are going to suffer considerably and morale will also fall off a cliff.

ASLEF executive rejected the offer didn't put it to the members.

 

[Horizon22]

ASLEF executive rejected the offer didn't put it to the members.

Okay, but not really relevant to my point at hand. It would see ASLEF will out of hand reject 4.2% increases elsewhere in the country too. Will a 5+% rise be tolerable to the Treasury? That is the question. If its "no", buckle up for the long haul or until one side cracks.

 

[Tomnick]

Okay, but not really relevant to my point at hand. It would see ASLEF will out of hand reject 4.2% increases elsewhere in the country too. Will a 5+% rise be tolerable to the Treasury? That is the question. If its "no", buckle up for the long haul or until one side cracks.

I get the impression that the clause relating to Sundays was what scuppered this one, not the 4.2% on its own.

 

[LoogaBarooga]

I get the impression that the clause relating to Sundays was what scuppered this one, not the 4.2% on its own.

Bingo

 

[Bertie the bus]

It’s certainly difficult to see how any *less* than that can credibly now be offered elsewhere.

Wishful thinking in the extreme. What Scotland decides to do with a devolved issue has no bearing at all on what the UK Government will do. In fact by rejecting 4.2% the UK Government could well decide to not bother offering more than the 2% civil servants are getting because it will just be rejected anyway.

 

[InOban]

How much will Sunak's largesse offset the inflation in energy prices and so what staff need to maintain their living standards? I guess it will mainly go to the lower paid grades so ASLEF members lose out.

 

[driverd]

How on earth do drivers have any influence on passenger or freight growth.

They drive the train safely and efficiently they have no say in anything to do with passenger growth or attracting passengers to the railways.

Speaking as a driver, this is broadly irrelevant. If your business is losing money, how on earth does it justify a pay rise for staff?

In most other walks of life, if the business does well, so do the staff. Why should the railways be a special case?

And let's be honest, there's numerous ways drivers can influence customer experience. Firstly, there's personal performance. Book on duty on time; don't delay your train for reasons you could otherwise avoid; be helpful and diligent - offer help to supervisors when spare (we all have those colleagues who do all they can to fall off the radar); provide genuinely useful customer service (eg: when asked a question don't just grunt, shrug the shoulders and go "I don't know, I'm a driver").

Then there's in the execution of driving duties. You can maximise performance of the unit to maintain/recover time. Plenty on these forums will adjust their driving style as appropriate (in a safe manner), and things like being on time really help improve public perception. If held at a signal, call the signaller and negotiate. I've done it enough times - sometimes you actually have been forgotten about or a message hasn't been passed to me/the signaller from control and overall delay is minimised by an efficient bit of comms. Sometimes a well timed call can prevent poor regulation too.

Then there's information sharing. Plenty of drivers wont pass details to guards or make announcements themselves and all these things have an impact on customer experience.

So yes, actually, there's a fair bit drivers can do to influence passenger or freight growth...

 

[91101]

Lucky you're not in charge then.

How on earth do drivers have any influence on passenger or freight growth.

They drive the train safely and efficiently they have no say in anything to do with passenger growth or attracting passengers to the railways.

It's a very clear link.

Biggest driver of passenger satisfaction on the railway is punctuality and reliability.

If the drivers, one of the main operational components are there at their train with their well paid bum in the seat 100% of the time then that will drive passenger satisfaction and passengers will come back and be attracted to the network.

 

[theking]

It's a very clear link.

Biggest driver of passenger satisfaction on the railway is punctuality and reliability.

If the drivers, one of the main operational components are there at their train with their well paid bum in the seat 100% of the time then that will drive passenger satisfaction and passengers will come back and be attracted to the network.

Show me where drivers just decide ad hoc not to turn upto work.

Don't quote days which are not in their contract or days that they're not booked to work.

 

[Siggy1980s]

It's a very clear link.

Biggest driver of passenger satisfaction on the railway is punctuality and reliability.

If the drivers, one of the main operational components are there at their train with their well paid bum in the seat 100% of the time then that will drive passenger satisfaction and passengers will come back and be attracted to the network.

Why should drivers HAVE to work their days off? You're taking your frustration out on the wrong people.

 

[91101]

Well going on strike certainly isn't providing a reliable train service!

Why should drivers HAVE to work their days off? You're taking your frustration out on the wrong people.

I mentioned nothing about RDW

 

[43066]

Speaking as a driver, this is broadly irrelevant. If your business is losing money, how on earth does it justify a pay rise for staff?

It’s patently ludicrous to compare the railway to a purely commercial business - what you say the same about education or the NHS?

TOCs themselves are also not losing money, they’re being paid a management fee to operate the business which enables them to generate a profit from the enterprise (otherwise they’d hand the keys back).

If the drivers, one of the main operational components are there at their train with their well paid bum in the seat 100% of the time then that will drive passenger satisfaction and passengers will come back and be attracted to the network.

Except that - as the RDW withdrawals show - there aren’t anywhere near enough drivers to cover the work 100% of the time. So you’d better thinking about incentivising some to do overtime, or get used to a *much* bigger basic wage bill.

Also delays are not down to drivers in 99% of cases (and you’re made to account for every minute).

A little knowledge is clearly a dangerous thing…

 

[ADIRU]

Speaking as a driver, this is broadly irrelevant. If your business is losing money, how on earth does it justify a pay rise for staff?

In most other walks of life, if the business does well, so do the staff. Why should the railways be a special case?

And let's be honest, there's numerous ways drivers can influence customer experience. Firstly, there's personal performance. Book on duty on time; don't delay your train for reasons you could otherwise avoid; be helpful and diligent - offer help to supervisors when spare (we all have those colleagues who do all they can to fall off the radar); provide genuinely useful customer service (eg: when asked a question don't just grunt, shrug the shoulders and go "I don't know, I'm a driver").

Then there's in the execution of driving duties. You can maximise performance of the unit to maintain/recover time. Plenty on these forums will adjust their driving style as appropriate (in a safe manner), and things like being on time really help improve public perception. If held at a signal, call the signaller and negotiate. I've done it enough times - sometimes you actually have been forgotten about or a message hasn't been passed to me/the signaller from control and overall delay is minimised by an efficient bit of comms. Sometimes a well timed call can prevent poor regulation too.

Then there's information sharing. Plenty of drivers wont pass details to guards or make announcements themselves and all these things have an impact on customer experience.

So yes, actually, there's a fair bit drivers can do to influence passenger or freight growth...

What a well reasoned and refreshing post. Thank you for putting forward your point of view

 

[91101]

Speaking as a driver, this is broadly irrelevant. If your business is losing money, how on earth does it justify a pay rise for staff?

In most other walks of life, if the business does well, so do the staff. Why should the railways be a special case?

And let's be honest, there's numerous ways drivers can influence customer experience. Firstly, there's personal performance. Book on duty on time; don't delay your train for reasons you could otherwise avoid; be helpful and diligent - offer help to supervisors when spare (we all have those colleagues who do all they can to fall off the radar); provide genuinely useful customer service (eg: when asked a question don't just grunt, shrug the shoulders and go "I don't know, I'm a driver").

Then there's in the execution of driving duties. You can maximise performance of the unit to maintain/recover time. Plenty on these forums will adjust their driving style as appropriate (in a safe manner), and things like being on time really help improve public perception. If held at a signal, call the signaller and negotiate. I've done it enough times - sometimes you actually have been forgotten about or a message hasn't been passed to me/the signaller from control and overall delay is minimised by an efficient bit of comms. Sometimes a well timed call can prevent poor regulation too.

Then there's information sharing. Plenty of drivers wont pass details to guards or make announcements themselves and all these things have an impact on customer experience.

So yes, actually, there's a fair bit drivers can do to influence passenger or freight growth...

Well said, quite frankly the level of professionalism employed in the basic disciplines of just showing some care for what you are doing and the people you are transporting would go a long way. Far too many of the grade forget the link between the hunk of metal they operate and the fact that its full with people who pay for that service. Those people aren't there, the service doesn't exist...

 

[Moonshot]

I get the impression that the clause relating to Sundays was what scuppered this one, not the 4.2% on its own.

What is the clause related to Sundays?

 

[320320]

Speaking as a driver, this is broadly irrelevant. If your business is losing money, how on earth does it justify a pay rise for staff?

In most other walks of life, if the business does well, so do the staff. Why should the railways be a special case?

And let's be honest, there's numerous ways drivers can influence customer experience. Firstly, there's personal performance. Book on duty on time; don't delay your train for reasons you could otherwise avoid; be helpful and diligent - offer help to supervisors when spare (we all have those colleagues who do all they can to fall off the radar); provide genuinely useful customer service (eg: when asked a question don't just grunt, shrug the shoulders and go "I don't know, I'm a driver").

Then there's in the execution of driving duties. You can maximise performance of the unit to maintain/recover time. Plenty on these forums will adjust their driving style as appropriate (in a safe manner), and things like being on time really help improve public perception. If held at a signal, call the signaller and negotiate. I've done it enough times - sometimes you actually have been forgotten about or a message hasn't been passed to me/the signaller from control and overall delay is minimised by an efficient bit of comms. Sometimes a well timed call can prevent poor regulation too.

Then there's information sharing. Plenty of drivers wont pass details to guards or make announcements themselves and all these things have an impact on customer experience.

So yes, actually, there's a fair bit drivers can do to influence passenger or freight growth...

I don’t believe you‘re a driver for a minute. This reads like an enthusiasts essay on the way they think a driver should be behaving.

How on earth do you ‘negotiate’ with the signaller? He tells you what’s happening and why you’re being held, it’s not a bargaining opportunity to get the train moving.

 

[Tomnick]

What is the clause related to Sundays?

I don't know the detail, I'm afraid. Hopefully someone else will be along shortly to elaborate further. I understand that it was a commitment of sorts of bring Sundays inside by 2027, though, one that'd presumably tie ASLEF's hands in terms of further negotiation on that subject.

 

[ComUtoR]

If held at a signal, call the signaller and negotiate. I've done it enough times -

Could you explain this a little further please. I don't understand how you would negotiate with the Signaller ?

Cheers in advance.