Rail strikes discussion

[gazzaa2]

It's got to be in the government interest to get an agreement before the next round of strikes. Lynch is eviscerating them.and holding them to account in public the way Labour never do

 

[SynthD]

Invite those temporary skilled workers to the union.

I don't trust that the temporary people will be fully trained before being set free, out of desperation.

 

[Ivor]

Invite those temporary skilled workers to the union.

I don't trust that the temporary people will be fully trained before being set free, out of desperation.

No in that respect it shouldn’t happen, I’m Gateline trained, ramp trained, 4.5 years Rail work experience but you’re correct untrained staff cannot just be brought in out of desperation.

 

[Southern Dvr]

No in that respect it shouldn’t happen, I’m Gateline trained, ramp trained, 4.5 years Rail work experience but you’re correct untrained staff cannot just be brought in out of desperation.

They can and they will.
Then someone will be injured or worse still die because someone was insufficiently trained. The government will then blame the unions saying if they hadn’t been on strike the untrained staff wouldn’t be needed.

 

[Snow1964]

No in that respect it shouldn’t happen, I’m Gateline trained, ramp trained, 4.5 years Rail work experience but you’re correct untrained staff cannot just be brought in out of desperation.

But seems plan is to bring in agency workers so more managers can be allocated to tasks that are harder, not things like train dispatch

Removing these regulations will give employers more flexibility but businesses will still need to comply with broader health and safety rules that keep both employees and the public safe. It would be their responsibility to hire cover workers with the necessary skills and/or qualifications to meet those obligations.

It would also help mitigate against the impact of future strikes, such as those seen on our railways this week, by allowing trained, temporary workers to carry out crucial roles to keep trains moving. For instance, skilled temporary workers would be able to fill vacant positions such as train dispatchers, who perform vital tasks such as giving train drivers the signal they are safe to proceed and making sure train doors aren’t obstructed.

And now the RMT has induced the current Government to repeal 1970s union legislation that even the Thatcher Government didn’t dare touch, that is a union own goal (which TUC ought to be furious about the RMT causing)

Repealing these 1970s-era restrictions will give businesses freedom to access fully skilled staff at speed, all while allowing people to get on with their lives uninterrupted to help keep the economy ticking.

Government acts to make it easier for businesses to use temporary staff to help ease disruptions caused by strike action

New law to allow businesses to supply skilled agency workers to plug staffing gaps during industrial action.

www.gov.uk

 

[LOL The Irony]

If you’re not backing the RMT in this strike you’re basically saying that working class people should accept less pay and ultimately less share of wealth, whilst doing nothing to try and prevent it. It’s that simple.

Well then it look like I don't support working class people. OK boys, time to take me to the gallows for not supporting the working class.

 

[Exscrew]

Well then it look like I don't support working class people. OK boys, time to take me to the gallows for not supporting the working class

What a comedian

 

[35B]

Should they have their feet up with the wheels coming off down the road?

Simple question.

Which I addressed - and I notice a rather uncharitable assumption about workloads. When things go wrong somewhere, the answer is not always to throw labour at it and make that the sole priority.

It would be interesting to know why this example was used, and especially when that constraint has cause issues - if indeed it ever has. But, as the example is given, this outsider who opposes the strikes regards this as a red herring that fails to recognise the practical constraints that underpin team boundaries and work allocation.

 

[LOL The Irony]

What a comedian

To be honest, I'm not the one making the ridiculous claim that not supporting the rmt means you don't support the working class.

 

[Philip]

But seems plan is to bring in agency workers so more managers can be allocated to tasks that are harder, not things like train dispatch



And now the RMT has induced the current Government to repeal 1970s union legislation that even the Thatcher Government didn’t dare touch, that is a union own goal (which TUC ought to be furious about the RMT causing)

It won't make much difference if the signallers are on strike, nor if drivers start striking. The union could also go for action short of a strike/work to rule if they feel agency staff are undermining the strike.

 

[Snow1964]

If you’re not backing the RMT in this strike you’re basically saying that working class people should accept less pay and ultimately less share of wealth, whilst doing nothing to try and prevent it. It’s that simple.

Working class people,
why do people keep using this phrase from last century, so makes it sound as those who work hard are not entitled to better themselves. Can we please show those who work hard some respect.

 

[KGX]

Does anyone have any thoughts as to when the next batch of strike dates will be announced?

 

[Steddenm]

Are there any easements in place for advance tickets? I'm travelling between Peterborough and Nottingham (via London) and one of my tickets is an advance first ticket (PBO-KGX) and my STP-NOT is a Super Off Peak First Single. Thanks

 

[whoosh]

It was also part of a pre-agreed multi-year deal; it just so happened inflation was as high as it was (is). Not sure what the Jubilee comment is all about.

No it was a one year deal, no strings.

Obviously with the line about to open across the city after years of delay, it was thought best not to mess about and just make a reasonable offer.

 

[Smidster]

Does anyone have any thoughts as to when the next batch of strike dates will be announced?

My guess would be next Tuesday - That is when the RMT seem to have exec meetings.

Will be interesting to see which / how many days they go for next - Got to think the time around the Commonwealth Games are going to be targeted.

 

[142blue]

Commonwealth Games time hopefully

Remember TSSA will be able to put dates in around them and potentially ASLEF too

 

[2021_Signaller]

Imagine facing an energy crisis that is rapidly pushing up bills at home and for transport (£2 a litre for petrol now where I am), yet rather than address those issues the government chooses to try and place further restrictions on trade unions instead. I trust the public. They will consider such moves opportunistic and completely the wrong priority for them at this time.

The government might have held the PR advantage at the start of this dispute, getting all its lies in early about the railways. However, the sands are definitely shifting now.

I see that Sunak is in the FT attempting to defend giving a more than a 10% pay rise to pensioners while expecting those that are actually working, to carry on doing so for ... 2%? I don't think so. Pay us the same!

 

[Gerald Fiennes]

Does the ORR have the ability to make sure that any agency staff are trained to the same level of competence?

 

[2021_Signaller]

Does the ORR have the ability to make sure that any agency staff are trained to the same level of competence?

Even if it doesn't. I wouldn't worry at all about these threats. They are completely baseless.

Will government really put a price on the safety of passengers and workers on the line? Apparently so. Passengers might want to reflect on that ...

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

It has been said that somewhere in the RMT set of beliefs that the bringing-down of capitalism is one of those. Therefore the RMT should not be surprised that capitalism will not just collapse without first fighting back.

 

[2021_Signaller]

It has been said that somewhere in the RMT set of beliefs that the bringing-down of capitalism is one of those. Therefore the RMT should not be surprised that capitalism will not just collapse without first fighting back.

You think this isn't capitalism, workers striving for the pay increases that they deserve?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

You think this isn't capitalism, workers striving for the pay increases that they deserve?

Did I say it wasn't?

 

[uglymonkey]

As its pro-rata I don’t think their members will complain about the increased commission payment.

Well, the rights and wrongs of it is academic. We have NR and government saying maintenance is unproductive and therefore needs to be cut. You're making them unproductive! It's all lies from top to bottom. Our senior management are a disgrace.

But isn't this exactly what led to the Hatfield train crash & the collapse of Railtrack? ( And Potter's Bar ?)

 

[dk1]

But isn't this exactly what led to the Hatfield train crash & the collapse of Railtrack? ( And Potter's Bar ?)

Did you mean to quote me on this? lol

 

[ar10642]

If it was anyone else they would call that a Ponzi scheme.

Only if all other state benefits (and the state pension is the same as a benefit) and government spending in general are also Ponzi schemes. It's not a Ponzi scheme because there is no pension "pot".

 

[Bletchleyite]

If it was anyone else they would call that a Ponzi scheme.

It isn't as such because it doesn't require the working population to grow.

It is however an issue if the working population shrinks. As that may well start to happen, it's important that we shift to investment based pension funding instead, as almost all private sector businesses have.

 

[Ivor]

I see that Sunak is in the FT attempting to defend giving a more than a 10% pay rise to pensioners while expecting those that are actually working, to carry on doing so for ... 2%? I don't think so. Pay us the same!

Back on ‘pensioner bashing’ again.

Yesterday the thread I hoped covered this off with pensioners responding including myself a pensioner still working or was until the strike came in & all my shifts were cancelled immediately.

There are still working pensioners contributing albeit mostly on minimum wage or a little above, ‘having’ to work I might add & I’m not expecting anyone to carry on working for 2%, get as much as you can but please stop pointing the finger at what seems to be lazy, no good, done naff all in life living in luxury pensioners!

 

[SynthD]

The finger is pointed at anyone the government deems worthy of inflation matching increases. It’s vote buying.

 

[uglymonkey]

Did you mean to quote me on this? lol

Sorry

 

[Thermal]

I think both sides agree on modernisation here. I would go as far as to say both want modernisation. The problem is the two very different perspectives on what modernisation is.

Is it:

(1) Let's identify what areas can be improved, consult on implementation, agree a time period that allows for transition without forced redundancies and split the financial gain of each improvement equally between the employer requesting the change and the employees who will be changing their working practices to everyone's benefit.

or is it:

(2) This is what's changing, your quality of life will be worse, some of you will be forcibly unemployed, there will be financial benefit from your sacrifice, but the employer is keeping all of that and you will get a real terms cut to both pay and conditions, just be happy most of you still have a job.

I know which of these sounds like a modern approach, and which sounds like it belongs in the Victorian era to me, but as this thread shows, many disagree and no progress will be made until both sides can agree on what modernisation actually means.

I also think both sides need to put more thought into what modernising a workforce actually entails. With a modern workforce come demands for improved work/life balance, flexible shifts, flexible part time hours, better maternity/paternity provision, allowing the less able to undertake / remain in roles with reasonable adjustments, better cab ergonomics, access to sanitary facilities, protection from working in extreme environments and temperatures etc. The list of things that could ultimately end up reducing productivity further is endless and whilst staff are busy protecting their old working practices, there is less focus on demanding new modern protections. I've seen first hand in another public sector environment how overhaling working practices (very much in line with the second approach) can bring with it a whole raft of unforeseen circumstances that can drag down productivity that the railway is still very much in the dark ages on.