endicomark69@g
Member
It often strikes me reading arguments about "paying their way" - especially when figures are broken down so well by some posters like above - that it's necessary not only to agree that facts are facts, but that Public Transport either has a social role to play in an urbanised Society like ours or it doesn't.
So much of what people vote for seems conditioned on what they are told is real, and not necessarily on what actually is real.
London, and the South East do NOT vampire up all the financial goodies meaning the people of Ramsbottom can't have a tram-system.
The Mayor of London isn't responsible for what goes on in Berwick.
Tube Workers being adequately paid for their knowledge, skills base and accountabilities aren't stopping Midwives and Cleaners from getting a decent living wage.
The economics of running a bus in London are just different from trying to run one in rural Shropshire. They just are.
If you actually had competent, fair, economically literate Govt that could accept a few such "facts" without having to view everything through the prism of selfish personal politics (selfish from their point of self interest first) it wouldn't be necessary to have to view every funding decision as a zero sum game with cheerleaders actively wanting "the other side" to lose.
But we don't have that, and haven't been anywhere near it in a Generation and more.
London doesn't "need" higher bus fares - ultimately they end up counter productive to all kinds of benefits - including environmental targets (remember those?)
London doesn't need "punishing" because they don't want to vote for mismanagement and impunity, that they vote against such "should" be viewed as a necessary rebuke to those in power that they should be forced to take account of. And strive to improve their act. But they don't.
Cutting provision only ends up precipitating a spiral of decline that ultimately costs Society as a whole - the 70s/80s actually taught us that.
TfL Bus services - like anything else in life - could be better organised and rearranged if necessary - but not just because a hostile entity with one eye on its money and the other on its opposition's throat knows the process they can force will "damage" that same opposition, and ultimately everyone else too.
Whatever your Politics, that shouldn't be something to disagree on.
So much of what people vote for seems conditioned on what they are told is real, and not necessarily on what actually is real.
London, and the South East do NOT vampire up all the financial goodies meaning the people of Ramsbottom can't have a tram-system.
The Mayor of London isn't responsible for what goes on in Berwick.
Tube Workers being adequately paid for their knowledge, skills base and accountabilities aren't stopping Midwives and Cleaners from getting a decent living wage.
The economics of running a bus in London are just different from trying to run one in rural Shropshire. They just are.
If you actually had competent, fair, economically literate Govt that could accept a few such "facts" without having to view everything through the prism of selfish personal politics (selfish from their point of self interest first) it wouldn't be necessary to have to view every funding decision as a zero sum game with cheerleaders actively wanting "the other side" to lose.
But we don't have that, and haven't been anywhere near it in a Generation and more.
London doesn't "need" higher bus fares - ultimately they end up counter productive to all kinds of benefits - including environmental targets (remember those?)
London doesn't need "punishing" because they don't want to vote for mismanagement and impunity, that they vote against such "should" be viewed as a necessary rebuke to those in power that they should be forced to take account of. And strive to improve their act. But they don't.
Cutting provision only ends up precipitating a spiral of decline that ultimately costs Society as a whole - the 70s/80s actually taught us that.
TfL Bus services - like anything else in life - could be better organised and rearranged if necessary - but not just because a hostile entity with one eye on its money and the other on its opposition's throat knows the process they can force will "damage" that same opposition, and ultimately everyone else too.
Whatever your Politics, that shouldn't be something to disagree on.