Great British Railways - Competition for new location of GBR Headquarters

[BrianW]

Waste of time and our money. Just DECIDE and get on with it. A list of six means five losers. There are already scores of losers. How much money ('consultants') and emotional energy spent, ie wasted. Even with all the biding (sp!!), lobbying, words etc the Secretary of State will decide. What are his criteria and evaluations?? Only real question is who to agree with. Voting will only complicate matters. What is this 'HQ' for?

 

[pdeaves]

I'm a little surprised by Newcastle being on there

Politics; 'being seen' to spread options around, give all the regions a chance, etc.

 

[43066]

Not MK, not Derby either. York the best of the options. Should be London really.

this is utter nonsense

Indeed.

 

[Grumpy Git]

Network Rail in MK have had lousy recruitment and staff retention problems, who would want to replicate that?! Besides, unless you want to travel on the WCML it's transport links aren't all that great.

I'm a little surprised by Newcastle being on there, it's the furthest removed, so will likely have staff recruitment/long term retention problems, and doesn't have great numbers of staff nearby already which will contribute to that. I'd probably say it's between York, Derby and Birmingham.

Maybe Crewe could also be a problem as property surround Crewe isn’t exactly cheap?

Purely by chance, I had a browse at engineering vacancies yesterday and of the few that did publish a salary, it’s scary how poorly paid the profession is.

 

[Davester50]

Should’ve been London

No. That's the problem with this country.

 

[InTheEastMids]

this is utter nonsense

+1

I'd also add that I wouldn't pick York as it gives quite a rose-tinted view of the railway - a magnificent station served by fast, frequent and modern electric trains from London and elsewhere.
The last thing that's needed is a set of leaders who even tacitly start to believe that this is a typical customer experience.

Ideally the HQ should be somewhere served only by 40yo sprinters and crush-loaded XC services.
Even better if it overlooks a yard full of brand new 701s that can't seem to get into service.

Derby might therefore be the best choice, particularly if we can persuade EMR to remove their Inter City calls once the 810s arrive.

And everyone should all have to get there as wheelchair users once a month.

OK, I know this is a pretty flippant take, but the serious point I'm trying to make is that it's really hard to understand customers' issues until you experience them, and I just don't believe that the experience you get from travelling to York is really representative of the national network.

 

[SynthD]

• Birmingham Central Birmingham is Labour
• Crewe Tory
• Derby Station is in Labour's Derby South
• Doncaster Donny north and central are Labour
• Newcastle upon Tyne Solidly Labour area
• York York Central is Labour

I'm being cynical here. It must be Crewe to reward a Tory voting constituency.

 

[zwk500]

Has any more been said about what this 'HQ' will actually contain? AFAIK there's no intent to move central functions from Quadrant:MK (e.g. Timetable planning), and NR are presumably going to hang on to the large London Offices it does have so will there actaully be much more than a reception desk, letter box and conference room at Crewe/York or wherever?

 

[thomalex]

Waste of time and our money. Just DECIDE and get on with it. A list of six means five losers. There are already scores of losers. How much money ('consultants') and emotional energy spent, ie wasted. Even with all the biding (sp!!), lobbying, words etc the Secretary of State will decide. What are his criteria and evaluations?? Only real question is who to agree with. Voting will only complicate matters. What is this 'HQ' for?

I must admit when I saw DestinationGBR trending this morning I thought they'd finally announced where they'd be based, not a list of all the cities that have been talked about for a long time now. Do we even know when the decision will be made yet?

 

[Snow1964]

Out of all those Birmingham is the only sensible choice, purely because it’s closer to the capital.

Birmingham is one of the cities the Department of Transport is relocating to (650 people to Birmingham and Leeds)

Although that is only relevant if the buildings are short stroll from each other.

DfT announces 650 roles to be created in Birmingham and Leeds

The Department for Transport to create a second HQ in Birmingham and a northern hub in Leeds as part of government commitment to level up all parts of the UK.

www.gov.uk

If the aim is to put lots of administrative staff there, and recruit locally then Crewe is probably going to be least appealing.

 

[zwk500]

If the aim is to put lots of administrative staff there, and recruit locally then Crewe is probably going to be least appealing.

Most HR and admin roles like that are based in Square One, Manchester at the moment I believe. Could be interesting if they're moving very few roles out of London but a lot out of Manchester!

 

[Bletchleyite]

• Birmingham Central Birmingham is Labour
• Crewe Tory
• Derby Station is in Labour's Derby South
• Doncaster Donny north and central are Labour
• Newcastle upon Tyne Solidly Labour area
• York York Central is Labour

I'm being cynical here. It must be Crewe to reward a Tory voting constituency.

Absolutely amazed Crewe is Tory given how run down it is. Is it because the constituency includes somewhere posh like Nantwich?

 

[grumpyoldman01]

When BR was created in 1948, the regions had a great deal of autonomy and many functions weren't centralised. Beeching addressed this issue, and workshops, M&EE, supplies, and some others were brought together and it was decided that these functions/headquarters offices be based in Derby; offices for them were constructed as part of the Railway Technical Centre development (Derwent and Trent Houses in particular).

These two office blocks, built specifically as BR HQ offices, are still owned by the DfT; currently, most - possibly all - are leased out, but leases have end dates and GBR will not come into existence overnight

 

[DelayRepay]

I have no strong view on where the HQ should be, but I do think holding a public vote to decide is very strange. Surely you decide based on things like the availability of land/premises, the location of your existing workforce, the ability to recruit workers with the skills needed etc? And I do understand why the public sector would want to consider where best to provide employment opportunities.

But this competition approach is just odd. I guess it means the government can blame the people who voted (or didn't vote) when they get complaints from the regions that missed out.

 

[zwk500]

I have no strong view on where the HQ should be, but I do think holding a public vote to decide is very strange. Surely you decide based on things like the availability of land/premises, the location of your existing workforce, the ability to recruit workers with the skills needed etc? And I do understand why the public sector would want to consider where best to provide employment opportunities.

But this competition approach is just odd. I guess it means the government can blame the people who voted (or didn't vote) when they get complaints from the regions that missed out.

The vote is purely consultative, it has been made quite clear it will have very little bearing on the final decision.

 

[Grumpy Git]

No doubt the way this has been arranged has lead to a lot of nice lucrative work for the PR companies, who also probably donate significant sums to a certain political party? Not that it makes the railway work any better.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

No. That's the problem with this country.

It’s the capital city. If everything was centred around a random city it would be different.

 

[Davester50]

It’s the capital city. If everything was centred around a random city it would be different.

BFD.
Federalised Germany isn't all centred on it's Capital, and never really has been before the wars.
Spreading the wealth around the nation is far more beneficial than focussing on one (overpriced) city.

See also Switzerland, Italy, US, Canada, Australia...

 

[DarloRich]

Which bit?

the "competition"

 

[Spartacus]

Given the housing crisis around London that's probably the last place it should be.

 

[Wynd]

As it's clear Scotland is likely to secede fairly soon, and even if it doesn't there's more than a passing chance its bit of Network Rail will end up completely devolved due to the pressure they will put for more devolution, then I think I wouldn't take Scotland into account in this way. Crewe isn't too far from the Central Belt by rail, anyway.



Euston-New St 1h24
Euston-Crewe 1h30

If you consider that Crewe is such that they'll be able to build it right next to the station (and so they should) due to plentiful, cheap land (there's a load of street level parking it could be put on, with capacity restored by building a multi storey), but in Birmingham it'd have to go on an industrial park or in a suburb due to lack of available urban land and high cost of it, I'd say Crewe actually wins there, because the end to end journey from London will be quicker (1h30 plus a short walk vs. 1h24 plus a bus, tram or rail connection or more likely a taxi).

If that was a genuine concern, why not have Edi or Gla on the list? It would demonstrate the value of the Union.

I voted for Newcastle, as I think its wise to spread the wealth about a bit.

That being said, Derby, Donny, Crewe and York are all natural candidates.

 

[Bald Rick]

As it's clear Scotland is likely to secede fairly soon, and even if it doesn't there's more than a passing chance its bit of Network Rail will end up completely devolved due to the pressure they will put for more devolution, then I think I wouldn't take Scotland into account in this way. Crewe isn't too far from the Central Belt by rail, anyway.



Euston-New St 1h24
Euston-Crewe 1h30

If you consider that Crewe is such that they'll be able to build it right next to the station (and so they should) due to plentiful, cheap land (there's a load of street level parking it could be put on, with capacity restored by building a multi storey), but in Birmingham it'd have to go on an industrial park or in a suburb due to lack of available urban land and high cost of it, I'd say Crewe actually wins there, because the end to end journey from London will be quicker (1h30 plus a short walk vs. 1h24 plus a bus, tram or rail connection or more likely a taxi).

Euston - New St will be quicker than that later this year, every 30 minutes. And rather quicker still in 8 years time.

plenty of land specifically identified for regeneration right next to Curzon St / Moor St, and elsewhere in the city centre. And a nice new tram linking them all.

Finally, which of the above has direct regular rail services to the most of each of the regional centres plus MK, and is already a regional centre…

Has any more been said about what this 'HQ' will actually contain? AFAIK there's no intent to move central functions from Quadrant:MK (e.g. Timetable planning), and NR are presumably going to hang on to the large London Offices it does have so will there actaully be much more than a reception desk, letter box and conference room at Crewe/York or wherever?

I can’t see it being much. The current NR ‘HQ’ doesn’t have more than a couple of hundred people nominally based there.

Although can’t understand why Camborne missed out

 

[DarloRich]

Has any more been said about what this 'HQ' will actually contain? AFAIK there's no intent to move central functions from Quadrant:MK (e.g. Timetable planning), and NR are presumably going to hang on to the large London Offices it does have so will there actaully be much more than a reception desk, letter box and conference room at Crewe/York or wherever?

in my mind this "HQ" will be the big cheeses and thier top support people and not much else. It is going to be very disappointing for the "winner" who may well be expecting Q:MK mkii!

I am sure Shapps will be pictured going in and out every now and again pretending he knows what day of the week it is.

 

[BrianW]

in my mind this "HQ" will be the big cheeses and thier top support people and not much else. It is going to be very disappointing for the "winner" who may well be expecting Q:MK mkii!

I am sure Shapps will be pictured going in and out every now and again pretending he knows what day of the week it is.

So Shapps will still be the main man then?

 

[DarloRich]

So Shapps will still be the main man then?

or A.N. Other. It wont make a difference. The current crop of Tory MP's are hardly the ministry of all the talents!

 

[Davester50]

The current crop of Tory MP's are hardly the ministry of all the talents!

Get Nadine in to sing the praises of Wonderful York, in the county of Humberside, hosting GB Road...

 

[ac6000cw]

I know the public vote is just a bit of PR, but I've voted for Birmingham, party because AFAIK it's never had a railway HQ before (I mean a real, integrated, railway not just an TOC/FOC etc.), whereas most of the others on the shortlist have been HQ locations in the past, and because of its good rail connectivity.

 

[pdeaves]

If that was a genuine concern, why not have Edi or Gla on the list? It would demonstrate the value of the Union.

Did they even bid to host the HQ? Only those who bid can be on the list.

 

[BrianW]

• Birmingham Central Birmingham is Labour
• Crewe Tory
• Derby Station is in Labour's Derby South
• Doncaster Donny north and central are Labour
• Newcastle upon Tyne Solidly Labour area
• York York Central is Labour

I'm being cynical here. It must be Crewe to reward a Tory voting constituency.

Crewe Town Deal

I campaigned for Crewe to get a Town Deal because I knew it would be a huge opportunity. I walked the Minister in charge around Crewe in 2019 and got him speaking to residents so he could hear about the challenges straight from the horse’s mouth. It's been a long journey since then!

www.drkieranmullan.org.uk

Welcome to my website

Latest news and campaigns from Kieran Mullan, MP for Crewe and Nantwich

www.drkieranmullan.org.uk

QED

Bandwagon rolling

 

[Bald Rick]

I know the public vote is just a bit of PR, but I've voted for Birmingham, party because AFAIK it's never had a railway HQ before (I mean a real, integrated, railway not just an TOC/FOC etc.), whereas most of the others on the shortlist have been HQ locations in the past, and because of its good rail connectivity.

Birmingham certainly did have a railway HQ - LM Region moved there (from Euston) in the late 80s IIRC. It is also the HQ of NRs NW& C Region, Avanti, Cross Country and WMT.

• Birmingham Central Birmingham is Labour
• Crewe Tory
• Derby Station is in Labour's Derby South
• Doncaster Donny north and central are Labour
• Newcastle upon Tyne Solidly Labour area
• York York Central is Labour

I'm being cynical here. It must be Crewe to reward a Tory voting constituency.

Birmingham does have a Conservative Mayor of course, who is very active in Transport matters. (And rather well connected).