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Mossley (Greater Manchester): issues with those houses and electrification.

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61653 HTAFC

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Very likely Marsden to Greenfield because of the little issue of the waterway that goes over the railway at the eastern end of the tunnel.
Or Mossley because of the houses. I'm not a civil engineer so I've no idea which of the two would be more difficult. Probably depends on the details of each, the spillway looks like it would be difficult, but there might be a simple solution that's obvious to those qualified to make that call. The houses at Mossley have people in them, and they'll have questions and concerns that need to be handled sensitively. A stream, not so much!
 
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Ken H

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Or Mossley because of the houses. I'm not a civil engineer so I've no idea which of the two would be more difficult. Probably depends on the details of each, the spillway looks like it would be difficult, but there might be a simple solution that's obvious to those qualified to make that call. The houses at Mossley have people in them, and they'll have questions and concerns that need to be handled sensitively. A stream, not so much!
I would build a covered way behind the houses at Mossley.
 

matacaster

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Or Mossley because of the houses. I'm not a civil engineer so I've no idea which of the two would be more difficult. Probably depends on the details of each, the spillway looks like it would be difficult, but there might be a simple solution that's obvious to those qualified to make that call. The houses at Mossley have people in them, and they'll have questions and concerns that need to be handled sensitively. A stream, not so much!
Not familiar with the location but could they put a concrete slab over the top of the railway and extend the gardens of those houses over it to make them happy?.....or is it more awkward than that... Buy the houses knock em down?
 

edwin_m

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Not familiar with the location but could they put a concrete slab over the top of the railway and extend the gardens of those houses over it to make them happy?.....or is it more awkward than that... Buy the houses knock em down?
The houses have no gardens, just small yards that back straight onto the railway. A roof over the railway would be much higher than those yards.
 

adamedwards

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"The houses have no gardens, just small yards that back straight onto the railway. A roof over the railway would be much higher than those yards."

Are steps up possible? The gardens idea is such a win win.
 

snowball

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"The houses have no gardens, just small yards that back straight onto the railway. A roof over the railway would be much higher than those yards."

Are steps up possible? The gardens idea is such a win win.
Would you like a blank wall immediately in front of your windows?
 

zwk500

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Would you like a blank wall immediately in front of your windows?
to be fair, plenty of houses in the country have gardens steep enough to block the view from the windows. Landscaping could mask the worst of the impact. What are the alternatives? Giant sheets of transparent plastic that will get dirty and mucky almost immediately? or some new and novel way of reducing clearances?
The other (Probably very expensive) solution would be to buy the houses (compulsory if need be), build whatever need be done, then sell them on with the new garden feature just part of the property. I'm not sure how strong the housing market is in the area to know if that would be feasible to secure a quick enough sale to recover some costs.
 

Fokx

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Not familiar with the location but could they put a concrete slab over the top of the railway and extend the gardens of those houses over it to make them happy?.....or is it more awkward than that... Buy the houses knock em down?
The houses have the equivalent of a balcony for a yard, in fact the length of which it extends is probably smaller than most balconies. It’s not a very big space by any stretch of the imagination

In terms of height it’s around 3ft above the ballast height

If you search “Mossley railway houses” on Google image search, the second image shows the ‘garden’ size
 

zwk500

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The houses have the equivalent of a balcony for a yard, in fact the length of which it extends is probably smaller than most balconies. It’s not a very big space by any stretch of the imagination

In terms of height it’s around 3ft above the ballast height

If you search “Mossley railway houses” on Google image search, the second image shows the ‘garden’ size
For context, here's a link to the street view image: https://www.google.com/maps/@53.514...4!1sHUPZKgzLXSCm0Jdft-BG9A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
 

Bevan Price

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The houses have no gardens, just small yards that back straight onto the railway. A roof over the railway would be much higher than those yards.
Taken a few years ago, but this shows the houses & railway at Mossley.
 

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Andyh82

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Change the railings into some windows, like the side of a conservatory, 6 feet tall?

Although I suppose you’d still have the issue of never being able to wash the track side of them
 

Bald Rick

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The Mossley issue has been mentioned before, repeatedly, but I don’t believe it will be a big problem.
 

61653 HTAFC

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The Mossley issue has been mentioned before, repeatedly, but I don’t believe it will be a big problem.
No doubt there are ways of getting round it. In fact, if Network Rail end up having to compulsory purchase those houses, I'd be fine buying one from them if it was on sale at a reasonable price... as long as the view of the railway wasn't going to be obstructed!
 

Bald Rick

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I haven’t seen the drawings, but it looks to me that there is more than enough clearance from back yard to wire height.
 

SuperNova

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No doubt there are ways of getting round it. In fact, if Network Rail end up having to compulsory purchase those houses, I'd be fine buying one from them if it was on sale at a reasonable price... as long as the view of the railway wasn't going to be obstructed!
They won't be. Station will be relocated and a neutral section past the houses.
 

AndrewE

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The houses have no gardens, just small yards that back straight onto the railway. A roof over the railway would be much higher than those yards.
It's not even a back yard... just a footpath between the door and the rail boundary, I believe!
I could envisage a "whalebone arch" cross-section thin concrete shell (a short tunnel) which could incorporate the OLE supports. Doubt whether a vertical fence with no gaps would be acceptable or reliable enough into the future - grp will degrade with time, and the OLE will only a yard or two from the boundary.
Probably better to offer to buy and then either demolish, or re-sell when the protection is done. This was discussed at length in another thread maybe a year ago.
 

Revaulx

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Would you like a blank wall immediately in front of your windows?
Most of the houses round here are built into the sides of hills so have that anyway.

I haven’t seen the drawings, but it looks to me that there is more than enough clearance from back yard to wire height.
Agreed. It seems to have acquired a totally unjustified “difficult” status, like the Standedge tunnel and (a bit further afield) the Forth Bridge.

There are tunnels either side of Mossley (Stalybridge and Scout) that do look a bit snug though.
 

Senex

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It's not even a back yard... just a footpath between the door and the rail boundary, I believe!
I could envisage a "whalebone arch" cross-section thin concrete shell (a short tunnel) which could incorporate the OLE supports. Doubt whether a vertical fence with no gaps would be acceptable or reliable enough into the future - grp will degrade with time, and the OLE will only a yard or two from the boundary.
Probably better to offer to buy and then either demolish, or re-sell when the protection is done. This was discussed at length in another thread maybe a year ago.
Might not a generous compulsory purchase actually prove the cheapest solution?
 

CdBrux

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Seems to me that almost everyone here seems to speculate more or less as fact that there is a very big issue with the Mossley houses apart from the one person who would seem to have the most direct knowledge!
 

adamedwards

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Looking at the houses (sorry, catching up), if the railway was in a tunnel, you could fit each house with French Windows at 1st floor level with a link to the new garden, so yes, down stairs there would be a loss of light but upstairs you gain a new feature and direct access to the garden. My late parents in law lived in such a house, but arranged with the bed rooms downstairs (cooler) and the living room and kitchen upstairs with the link to the first floor garden, all due to being built into a hillside. So I'd also offer to fund internal rearrangements if wanted. I am sure this is doable in some way.

I would guess Network Rail will be keeping fairly tight lipped on this because they will be having to negotiate with each owner and don't want to prejudice the outcomes.
 

sjm77

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Here is another picture of the Mossley Houses which gives a clearer indication. In my (not an expert) opinion the cheapest option maybe to move/extend the Manchesterbound platform 150 metres to the East. That way EMU stoppers would easily be able to reach ~25mph on the falling gradient before hitting a neutral section next to the houses. All other traffic could cope without power for the section I am sure. I imagine most freight would be diesel hauled even after the wires go up.


1659630497014.png
 
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snowball

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Here is another picture of the Mossley Houses which gives a clearer indication. In my (not an expert) opinion the cheapest option maybe to move to extend the Manchesterbound platform 150 metres to the East. That way EMU stoppers would easily be able to reach ~25mph on the falling gradient before hitting a neutral section next to the houses. All other traffic could cope without power for the section I am sure.
This appears to be similar to what SuperNova (with apparent inside knowledge) has said in #5774 - except that the "eastbound" line here is actually going very slightly west of north, and I assume that's the direction of movement you're referring to.
 
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61653 HTAFC

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If nothing else, that photo shows why those of us who aren't "in the know" would assume that there would be problems to solve there. Very few problems are actually insurmountable, depending on how much money you throw at it.
 

GRALISTAIR

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In picture post 25 above, it would make sense, to my simple mind anyway, to have twin-track cantilevers on the left piled or augered into the embankment and definitely no metal on the other side close to the houses. Polymethyl methacrylate (aka Perspex) made in special batches with extra UV inhibitor and HALS (Hindered Amine Light Stabilizer) in as screens near the houses so they still have a view of some of the greenery. The existing metal railings would be very heavily earth bonded of course or removed.

I trust engineers. They will get it done.
 
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AndrewE

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In picture 5791 above, it would make sense, to my simple mind anyway, to have twin-track cantilevers on the left piled or augered into the embankment and definitely no metal on the other side close to the houses. Polymethyl methacrylate (aka Perspex) made in special batches with extra UV inhibitor and HALS (Hindered Amine Light Stabilizer) in as screens near the houses so they still have a view of some of the greenery. The existing metal railings would be very heavily earth bonded of course or removed.

I trust engineers. They will get it done.
I do too, but given that the railway is dug into the bedrock in most of that area I think that it will either be core-drilling and cementing your uprights in, or chiselling a ledge in and then boring 3 or 4 holes in to resin-bond anchor bolts for the cantilevers!
If the vertical screens were an obvious choice I think they would have been at the forefront of any plans... unfortunately I think they will have to be 3 storeys high and weather-proof for a few decades at least...
 

Cletus

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Here's a link to a picture from Rightmove showing the back garden of number 22.
 

trebor79

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Here is another picture of the Mossley Houses which gives a clearer indication. In my (not an expert) opinion the cheapest option maybe to move/extend the Manchesterbound platform 150 metres to the East. That way EMU stoppers would easily be able to reach ~25mph on the falling gradient before hitting a neutral section next to the houses. All other traffic could cope without power for the section I am sure. I imagine most freight would be diesel hauled even after the wires go up.


View attachment 118705

This appears to be similar to what SuperNova (with apparent inside knowledge) has said in #5774 - except that the "eastbound" line here is actually going very slightly west of north, and I assume that's the direction of movement you're referring to.
Would you even need to move the platform? There's a neutral section northbound immediately after Maningtree and the class 90' and rakes of 9 Mk3 coaches would be doing not much more than walking pace when they hit it (especially if a 90 was leading dragging the usual consist + failed 90 on the back). Coped just fine. EMU's accelerate much more quickly and the falling gradient will help too of course.
 
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