Avanti West Coast cancellations

[Bletchleyite]

Starmer has said Labour WONT renationalise the railways.

He also hasn't said he'll reprivatise them. It is looking rather like most if not all of it will be under the OLR before he even gets a chance to look at it. And Scotland and Wales are already nationalised to their respective Governments with the exception of the Sleeper which I expect to join ScotRail at whatever breakpoint opportunity arises.

 

[Howardh]

probably most TOC's will eventually be taken back one-by-one as they can't make a profit going forward, so it's nationalisation by stealth. Starmer may not be "for nationalisation" but he may have no choice.

 

[jayah]

The government is a monopsonist of public sector work. The review bodies are expressly intended to link the market to the government's pay

There is no shortage of people wanting to be an MP, but nursing vacancies and high turnover persist for years.

It doesn't work and we shouldn't be surprised either - what would happen if government tried to artificially set the price of cabbages?

 

[gazzaa2]

Agreed, which is why if the railways are to be nationalised again, which currently seems to be a likely eventuality, with more franchises failing and being taken back into public operation and a highly likely Labour or centre-left coalition around New year's 2025, who since Corbyn times has explicitly outlined that it wants to renationalise the network, it has to be done as part of a wider wave of British reform, or it will just go down the toilet like BR did and be crippled with the problems other public services have been suffering since late blairite times. In almost all centrist to left wing thinking, a national railway is a sensible idea, and most of the rest of Europe would agree, but this country has a habit of not correctly funding big public services, even under Labour. At least half of BR's tenure was under Labour, and it was no less in the toilet in those times than under the periodic tory rule. It's not the tories or the neoliberalist ideals this government operates under that needs to change, its the attitude of the British public towards funding public services, and political infrastructure, that have to change if the railways, and eventually other national services like the NHS, are going to survive the next couple decades in their current state.

The problem is nobody wins elections by pledging to raise taxes to pay for public services. Instead the public are bribed with tax cuts and then complain when nothing works.

 

[jayah]

If the DfT try and force this through, I can see the RMT heading for an all out strike. Which may well be the aim of the government anyway.

They'll last two weeks, three at most. Then it will be over.

These disputes can go on for a year or more at the current tempo.

The problem is nobody wins elections by pledging to raise taxes to pay for public services. Instead the public are bribed with tax cuts and then complain when nothing works.

Public spending is at a record high both in cash terms and relative to GDP.

Politicians need to decide what taxpayers money is for and for what it isn't.

 

[Bletchleyite]

They'll last two weeks, three at most. Then it will be over.

These disputes can go on for a year or more at the current tempo.

Must admit I was surprised at how long the all-out Arriva bus strike on Merseyside carried on - wasn't it over a month? I know Liverpool tends to be more traditional in industrial relations terms than elsewhere, but most people on a working class wage (which driving buses certainly is) aren't going to be able to afford a month's lost pay.

A few spread out days is rather different, foresaking the annual holiday or cutting back Christmas plans is likely to be able to fund that, particularly among drivers who are paid better than most other staff.

 

[317 forever]

The Moretti available in this country is brewed in Manchester. It's about as Italian as Pizza Express.

This means that nobody can reach that brewery quickly from London anymore

 

[Starmill]

There is no shortage of people wanting to be an MP, but nursing vacancies and high turnover persist for years.

It doesn't work and we shouldn't be surprised either - what would happen if government tried to artificially set the price of cabbages?

There's not one single buyer of cabbages. It's not comparable.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I don't agree. yes if it was Sunak and he kept dishing out the dosh he would be safe till it stopped but if Truss wins and sticks by what she's said she's going to/not going to she.ll be gone by Christmas.

Who's going to turn her out?
Either her own MPs (like Boris) or a vote of no confidence in parliament (which the Tories won't support).
We are stuck with a Tory government till the 5 year term of this parliament is up (end-2024).
Unless Truss does a Theresa May and calls an early election and loses her majority.
Even then, Labour has to actually win.

 

[TheBigD]

...what would happen if government tried to artificially set the price of cabbages?

The value of the shadow cabinet* would increase?

*or current cabinet depending on your political bias!!!

 

[jayah]

There's not one single buyer of cabbages. It's not comparable.

There isn't a single buyer of a lot of things the government thinks it can control the price of.

 

[Clarence Yard]

probably most TOC's will eventually be taken back one-by-one as they can't make a profit going forward, so it's nationalisation by stealth. Starmer may not be "for nationalisation" but he may have no choice.

They don’t make a profit now! They just earn fees for running the TOC on the DfTs behalf. There is a fixed fee and a performance related fee, the latter relates to all kind of performance measures, it’s not just train performance that counts here. So no TOC is going to now fail financially - that risk has completely gone.

In an act of stupidity, Shapps looks as if, in the forthcoming GBR legislation, he is proposing that GBR can run its own trains so, if someone doesn’t change that proposal, it would be a simple matter for Labour just to gently take back the TOCs when they wanted to. Shapps has been well and truly stitched up by his civil servants, once again.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

They don’t make a profit now! They just earn fees for running the TOC on the DfTs behalf. There is a fixed fee and a performance related fee, the latter relates to all kind of performance measures, it’s not just train performance that counts here. So no TOC is going to now fail financially - that risk has completely gone.

In an act of stupidity, Shapps looks as if, in the forthcoming GBR legislation, he is proposing that GBR can run its own trains so, if someone doesn’t change that proposal, it would be a simple matter for Labour just to gently take back the TOCs when they wanted to. Shapps has been well and truly stitched up by his civil servants, once again.

The Tories made a bad call cancelling the franchises as they had no idea what they were dealing with and are utterly ill equipped to manage them

 

[thedbdiboy]

The Tories made a bad call cancelling the franchises as they had no idea what they were dealing with and are utterly ill equipped to manage them

They had no choice - the franchise model assumed a 'steady state' railway but the fragmenting of contracts meant that whole industry evolution was not possible. The problem was that the ideological extermination of any kind of overall railway authority in the 1993 Railways Act meant that when COVID summarily destroyed the remaining franchise structure at a stroke, there was no easy route to establish a railway authority - it needs legislation. Until then, the only choice available to Government is to run the operating contracts from DfT or the devolved authorities and, via those contracts, try and direct the machinery of the industry, without the skills base to manage it and with no space between running the railway and playing politics.
It is clearly a long way from ideal to both be attempting to manage a crisis situation with a sub-optimal management structure and undertake major reorganisation at the same time. But the seeds were laid in the scorched-earth extermination of any industry-wide control mechanisms in the 1990s which meant that when the time came to undertake, for example, either a major timetable reorganisation or to reform and update fares and retailing, there was no-one actually in charge. Hence the painful experience of the 2018 GTR timetable change or the wonders of smart ticketing that didn't for many years replicate the utility of the paper ticketing system.

 

[gazzaa2]

The Tories made a bad call cancelling the franchises as they had no idea what they were dealing with and are utterly ill equipped to manage them

The Transport minister doesn't even know what a direct train service is.

 

[Fokx]

Must admit I was surprised at how long the all-out Arriva bus strike on Merseyside carried on - wasn't it over a month? I know Liverpool tends to be more traditional in industrial relations terms than elsewhere, but most people on a working class wage (which driving buses certainly is) aren't going to be able to afford a month's lost pay.

A few spread out days is rather different, foresaking the annual holiday or cutting back Christmas plans is likely to be able to fund that, particularly among drivers who are paid better than most other staff.

They didn’t lose a months pay, Unite were paying drivers who attended the picket line £70 because they knew the impact an all out strike would have on both the cause and the drivers income

The Transport minister doesn't even know what a direct train service is.

I don’t think he even knows where Manchester is, let alone how many direct trains per hour there are

 

[Bletchleyite]

They didn’t lose a months pay, Unite were paying drivers who attended the picket line £70 because they knew the impact an all out strike would have on both the cause and the drivers income

How was that funded? Could the RMT or ASLEF afford it?

 

[Hugh Young]

Tim Farron is probably better at keeping an eye on things than most public services are!

Agree though that it probably wasn’t the first port of call.

My dealings with help points are that you get put through to India and the poor people at the other end have no idea what do to do.

 

[800001]

My dealings with help points are that you get put through to India and the poor people at the other end have no idea what do to do.

Northern all go to Uk, Scotrail go to Uk there only ones Ive dealt with.
I presumed they were in the control rooms of the TOCs?

 

[the sniper]

My dealings with help points are that you get put through to India and the poor people at the other end have no idea what do to do.

That can be the case if you push the information button, but failing that you'd be using the emergency button if you were locked in a station. Though I'm not sure whether it was ever confirmed that Oxenholme has help points.

 

[Bantamzen]

How was that funded? Could the RMT or ASLEF afford it?

Unite is a very big union, but even they would struggle to afford strike pay if a large proportion of their membership were on strike. So I'd be very surprised if the the rail unions could afford it for more than the briefest time.

 

[Moonshot]

Unite is a very big union, but even they would struggle to afford strike pay if a large proportion of their membership were on strike. So I'd be very surprised if the the rail unions could afford it for more than the briefest time.

Both RMT and ASLEF have stated there will be no strike pay available

 

[wilbers]

That can be the case if you push the information button, but failing that you'd be using the emergency button if you were locked in a station. Though I'm not sure whether it was ever confirmed that Oxenholme has help points.

This map shows 3 of them.

Find a Station | National Rail

You can find information about every single National Rail served station in Great Britain – and there are 2,589 of them! From facilities to access information, ticket buying and collection, onward travel and more helpful knowledge.

www.nationalrail.co.uk

 

[Carlisle]

The Tories made a bad call cancelling the franchises as they had no idea what they were dealing with and are utterly ill equipped to manage them

Several franchises had already failed to successfully deliver proposed timetable, & efficiency improvements whilst others were in financial trouble too. The model was broken.

 

[duncanp]

Can't ee this mentioned anywhere else.

One train per day, on one day per week, won't make a lot of difference, but any competition may give Avanti a well deserved kick up the backside.

Heritage train firm in Crewe starts new London service

Locomotive Services Group begins operating a first class-only service between Crewe and Euston.

www.bbc.co.uk

Heritage train firm in Crewe starts new London service​

A heritage railway company has launched a new charter service to London after the main regional operator announced a reduced timetable.
Locomotive Services Group said it was running a £75 first class-only service between Crewe and London Euston.
The train, which only runs on Fridays, will travel at up to 110mph (177km/h) using electric locomotives.
It comes after Avanti West Coast reduced its number of services due to "severe staff shortages".
The heritage service will depart from Crewe at 14:29 BST, running non-stop to arrive at London Euston at 16:12.
The train will set off to return north at 17:27 calling at Birmingham International, Birmingham New Street, Wolverhampton, Stafford, Crewe and Wilmslow before arriving at Manchester Piccadilly at 20.45.

Passengers can travel "in comfort and style without the stress of normal rail services", the operator said.
Avanti West Coast reduced its number of services following industrial action.
It apologised for the disruption and said the amended timetable would be in place until further notice as it continued to "monitor and review the situation".
The rail operator's full reduced service includes four direct trains an hour from London to Glasgow, Liverpool, Manchester and Birmingham.
Every two hours, trains are scheduled to run through to Edinburgh via the West Midlands.
Charter trains have not been used for regular services on Britain's railways since summer 2018.

 

[yorkie]

Can't ee this mentioned anywhere else.

One train per day, on one day per week, won't make a lot of difference, but any competition may give Avanti a well deserved kick up the backside.

Heritage train firm in Crewe starts new London service

Locomotive Services Group begins operating a first class-only service between Crewe and Euston.

www.bbc.co.uk

Intercity Fridays Only to/from Euston

Locomotive Intercity Limited to launch the Friday Charter train service from Friday 19th August 2022...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[duncanp]

Intercity Fridays Only to/from Euston

Locomotive Intercity Limited to launch the Friday Charter train service from Friday 19th August 2022...

www.railforums.co.uk

I didn't see that thread in the Railtours And Preservation section

 

[HamworthyGoods]

I didn't see that thread in the Railtours And Preservation section

Where else would a railtour be? That’s all this is a weekly railtour!

 

[duncanp]

Where else would a railtour be? That’s all this is a weekly railtour!

I am not sure that this is a railtour.

As the thread says, the Northbound train is aimed at the Friday evening commuter market from London to Manchester, and I think it is an experimental service.

However if it proves a success, other services could follow.

 

[whoosh]

If i were the RMT i.d get together with the companies agree on as many things as they can then and then come out and say we have a deal the only person stopping it is Schappes and then see if he's happy to go on Breakfast tv.

Apart from coming out and saying it, that seems to be what has happened between ASLEF and South Eastern. Perhaps this is what prompted Steve White's tweet?

376/2022 IR/SE/42 Consideration to a report from G Morris, District Organiser, District No.1 dated 27th April 2022
Re: Southeastern - 2022 Pay Claim

The report before the Executive Committee is in relation to the Southeastern 2022 Pay Claim.

The Lead Officer reports that the company made a commitment as part of the 2019 pay settlement that they would enter into meaningful discussions by way of setting up a working group with ASLEF to discuss a multi-year deal linking future productivity gains to salary uplifts.
The pandemic and Lockdown had interrupted talks until a meeting was held on 5th November 2021, however the meeting was not fruitful as the company were waiting to hear what funding if any would be available. There were no further talks until January, March and April 2022 where various
productivity items were discussed that would result in a pay award in addition to any RPI increase agreed and sanctioned by the DFT. The Company confirmed in the meeting on 13th April 2022, that following DFT guidelines they were not in a position to make a formal pay offer.
Further, due to the company making no satisfactory 2022 pay offer the Lead officer and Company Council recommend balloting members for industrial action.

The Executive Committee dealt with the matter by adopting the following resolution:
480/497

Proposed Colombini, seconded Hudd

"That the report be noted, and the General Secretary be instructed to advise
Southeastern that company's failure to provide a suitable pay offer for 2022 is
not acceptable to ASLEF.
Further, that the General Secretary be instructed to serve Southeastern with
statutory notice of our intention to ballot our Driver members employed by the
company for strike action and action short of a strike.
The closing date for the return of ballot papers is to be 10:00 on Monday 11th July
2022.
The provisions of the statutory regulations to apply.
All Branches and Reps Southeastern be advised"

Absent: Baxter, Kaye, Wilkinson
For: All the others

Carried