Unadvertised stop - can passengers get on / off the train?

[miklcct]

There are a few night trains stopping at Cricklewood "for staffing reasons" in the timetable, which are not advertised calls. In practice, given that these trains are driver only operated, is it possible for a passenger to get on / off these trains at Cricklewood?

 

[1Q18]

There are a few night trains stopping at Cricklewood "for staffing reasons" in the timetable, which are not advertised calls. In practice, given that these trains are driver only operated, is it possible for a passenger to get on / off these trains at Cricklewood?

Even though such a stop is booked there’s no guarantee that it will stop. Even if it does, there’s again no guarantee that the passenger doors will be released.

 

[NSE]

If it’s not advertised for the public and just for operational purposes then I wouldn’t rely on it being used.

 

[Watershed]

There are a few night trains stopping at Cricklewood "for staffing reasons" in the timetable, which are not advertised calls. In practice, given that these trains are driver only operated, is it possible for a passenger to get on / off these trains at Cricklewood?

No, the doors would not be released and there is no guarantee that a crew change opportunity will even be taken up on the day (e.g. it may be a St Albans driver covering for 2 Cricklewood drivers, so no need to change over).

 

[londonbridge]

I was once on a late night Southern returning from Victoria to Croydon, which made an unadvertised stop at Selhurst. Can’t remember if the passenger got on or off but when the guard challenged him the passenger threatened to report the guard and driver for stopping where they shouldn’t have.

 

[DanNCL]

I made the mistake of relying on this at Heighington last year, unsurprisingly the train went straight past.

Some LNER guards were releasing all doors at Carlisle on last year's Tyne Valley diversions despite it being an unadvertised stop just for a crew change. It's back to being an advertised passenger stop this year.

 

[43066]

Can’t remember if the passenger got on or off but when the guard challenged him the passenger threatened to report the guard and driver for stopping where they shouldn’t have.

Sounds like the sort of passenger who deserves to be left behind .

 

[Bikeman78]

I was once on a late night Southern returning from Victoria to Croydon, which made an unadvertised stop at Selhurst. Can’t remember if the passenger got on or off but when the guard challenged him the passenger threatened to report the guard and driver for stopping where they shouldn’t have.

Presumably on a slam door train? If such a train got held at a red signal on the fast lines, people would often jump on or off.

 

[londonbridge]

It was some years back but not as far back as slam door stock so the doors must have been released.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I was once on a late night Southern returning from Victoria to Croydon, which made an unadvertised stop at Selhurst. Can’t remember if the passenger got on or off but when the guard challenged him the passenger threatened to report the guard and driver for stopping where they shouldn’t have.

"We don't stop here"
"Don't worry, I haven't got off"

Obviously a lot harder on stock with locked doors, but I have certainly alighted at Bletchley when a stop was made to exchange crew and the doors were released, and I was once stuck at Tring for ages due to a fatality, there was a Pendolino there with doors released and quite a few of our passengers went over and boarded it, presumably having intended to do so at MKC.

Sounds like the sort of passenger who deserves to be left behind .

If you release the doors, it is perfectly acceptable for a passenger to make use of that to leave the train early if they so wish. If you don't want them to do so, don't release the doors.

 

[PGAT]

I believe when mainline Southern trains are diverted from Victoria to London Bridge, they stop at Norwood Junction unadvertised, but the doors do open and sometimes the driver informs the passengers they can get off.

 

[WizCastro197]

I believe when mainline Southern trains are diverted from Victoria to London Bridge, they stop at Norwood Junction unadvertised, but the doors do open and sometimes the driver informs the passengers they can get off.

Yes I have seen this at Gatwick whilst waiting for a train to Redhill, a Southern train (normally to Victoria but during the disruption at the beginning of the year was diverted to LBG) rolled in and the departure board said calling at East Croydon and London Bridge but the Dot Matrix on the side of the train said the train would stop at Norwood Junction.


Passengers can get off yes. If the Driver released the doors, what else would they want the passenger to do? If the driver doesn't want anyone off as Bletchleyite said, they shouldn't release the doors.

 

[ComUtoR]

Passengers can get off yes. If the Driver released the doors, what else would they want the passenger to do? If the driver doesn't want anyone off as Bletchleyite said, they shouldn't release the doors.

What about trains that are set down or pick up only ?

 

[PGAT]

I think they are advertised still.

 

[ComUtoR]

Cheers

 

[zwk500]

What about trains that are set down or pick up only ?

These are counted as advertised stops, but would be suppressed on the appropriate Station and on-train boards. E.g. a train at East Croydon booked, Norwood Jn (PU only), New X Gate (SD only), London Bridge would only show calling at New Cross Gate and London Bridge. The New Cross Gate platform boards would show something like 'The next train is set-down only, please do not attempt to board the train' (exact message would vary according to the system in use).

 

[busestrains]

Plenty of trains make unscheduled stops at Norwood Junction and Selhurst and i have seen passengers board and alight on these. From what i have seen nobody will care if passengers use these stops. They always release all of the doors. Often the Driver or Guard or OBS even announces the additional stop to passengers. So as others have said if the doors are released then you are welcome to board and alight. Otherwise if they do not want people boarding and alighting they should not release the doors.

 

[thenorthern]

It varies for reason to reason, a couple of years ago a was at Longport and a Class 323 on the local Piccadilly to Stoke service made an additional unadvertised call there to pick up any passengers waiting as a lot of the trains were cancelled that day due to the weather.

At other times I have been at Stoke-on-Trent and the early morning service that used to run from Manchester to Euston direct non stop made an additional call there to let a member of staff off but not passengers.

 

[ComUtoR]

Otherwise if they do not want people boarding and alighting they should not release the doors.

But how do you then deal with set down / pick up only trains ?

If

'The next train is set-down only, please do not attempt to board the train' (exact message would vary according to the system in use).

The doors will have to be released. Talking out the advertised/unadvertised bit (thanks again) I believe that there are ticketing restrictions that will apply so a passenger boarding a set down only service may be liable for a penalty fare / fine / prosecution etc. I'm not sure if telling people if the doors are open, do what you like, is a message thats in the passengers best interest.

 

[geoffk]

Years ago a young guy from Bromsgrove who later became a work colleague told me he sometimes caught the Plymouth - Glasgow Sleeper from, let's say Bristol, and when the train stopped for the Lickey banker he jumped off and legged it off railway premises before anyone could catch him! I'm sure he always had a ticket.

 

[185143]

When I was on one of the overnight GTR Southern services from London Bridge heading south, the OBS made an announcement asking if there were any staff onboard requiring Norwood Junction to let him know, otherwise we weren't stopping. I assume the driver would have given full release if there were.

But how do you then deal with set down / pick up only trains ?

If



The doors will have to be released. Talking out the advertised/unadvertised bit (thanks again) I believe that there are ticketing restrictions that will apply so a passenger boarding a set down only service may be liable for a penalty fare / fine / prosecution etc. I'm not sure if telling people if the doors are open, do what you like, is a message thats in the passengers best interest.

What about someone with a rover ticket that would have been valid from the previous official pick up?

 

[rg177]

What about someone with a rover ticket that would have been valid from the previous official pick up?

I've boarded a set down only VT service at Watford Junction before with an ALR (considered one of those most 'notorious' examples of set down only trains).

Asked the dispatcher and she said "it probably won't be an issue" and the TM invited me to board as well. As it happens, we were then stuck around Queens Park for 90 minutes while Euston was evacuated, and the TM wrote a note to accompany my delay repay claim seeing as I "shouldn't" have boarded at WFJ.

So, in theory, it's possible!

 

[Neptune]

Some LNER guards were releasing all doors at Carlisle on last year's Tyne Valley diversions despite it being an unadvertised stop just for a crew change. It's back to being an advertised passenger stop this year.

Pedant alert but drivers release the doors on Azuma’s.

 

[Class2ldn]

On TL night work we have staff stops at selhurst or Norwood. We do release the doors but if coming from blackfriars you always get a lot of time so you end up crawling along as you don't want to be sitting there a long time with doors open as obviously its not advertised.
Some people announce the staff stop but I've had plenty of people get off there, nowt you can do tbh.
Always 1 that thinks its east croydon then realises and jumps back on lol. Same happens at cricklewood if you have a staff stop. The doors are always released but for as minimal time as possible.

 

[Cricketer8for9]

I believe when mainline Southern trains are diverted from Victoria to London Bridge, they stop at Norwood Junction unadvertised, but the doors do open and sometimes the driver informs the passengers they can get off.

This happened this morning. Stop was advertised by the driver. Don’t think anyone got off, but people certainly got on.

 

[PGAT]

This happened this morning. Stop was advertised by the driver. Don’t think anyone got off, but people certainly got on.

Saw a bunch of confused passengers on Platform 3: the station announcement said "This train is not in use" and then proceeds to open the doors.

 

[Horizon22]

The doors will have to be released. Talking out the advertised/unadvertised bit (thanks again) I believe that there are ticketing restrictions that will apply so a passenger boarding a set down only service may be liable for a penalty fare / fine / prosecution etc. I'm not sure if telling people if the doors are open, do what you like, is a message thats in the passengers best interest.

It's a crowding measure more than anything else. Lots of places do it: See Clapham Junction for SWR at Waterloo, Stratford for GA at Liverpool Street, Reading for GWR at Paddington. It helps (at least some) diffusion of passengers to other services. Of course all these areas are in the London zones so it doesn't really matter from a ticketing perspective when there are other available trains too.

 

[317 forever]

It varies for reason to reason, a couple of years ago a was at Longport and a Class 323 on the local Piccadilly to Stoke service made an additional unadvertised call there to pick up any passengers waiting as a lot of the trains were cancelled that day due to the weather.

At other times I have been at Stoke-on-Trent and the early morning service that used to run from Manchester to Euston direct non stop made an additional call there to let a member of staff off but not passengers.

I similarly had a "non-stop" London King's Cross - Cambridge train in 2020 make an originally unscheduled stop somewhere like Baldock (I forget exactly where) due to a previous cancellation. On that occasion the guard made an announcement a few minutes beforehand about that additional stop.

 

[zwk500]

I similarly had a "non-stop" London King's Cross - Cambridge train in 2020 make an originally unscheduled stop somewhere like Baldock (I forget exactly where) due to a previous cancellation. On that occasion the guard made an announcement a few minutes beforehand about that additional stop.

An Special Stop Order is different to a booked unadvertised stop though in that it is a short notice response to disruption and is intended to be used by passengers.

 

[Urban Gateline]

I similarly had a "non-stop" London King's Cross - Cambridge train in 2020 make an originally unscheduled stop somewhere like Baldock (I forget exactly where) due to a previous cancellation. On that occasion the guard made an announcement a few minutes beforehand about that additional stop.

Which Guard? GN and TL all run DOO so it was probably the Driver who made the announcement or Platform staff at Kings Cross!

The Norwood Jnc stops are a bit strange, for crewing purposes they usually only put them on specific trains but as said above they were indeed on the Brighton to London Bridge services yesterday!