Worst Rail Routes for fare collection in members' experience?

[dk1]

With regard to late evenings on many more local routes almost everyone will be on a return ticket, so the tiny amount of revenue lost is not worth the cost of the staff.

I know a lot of guards used to like football or event days before ticket gates where installed. Knowing that many slipped through the net on the way in they could nab them as return was more staggered through the evening. Also with a single only around a quid less than a return, the revenue loss was quite negligible.

 

[LowLevel]

With regard to late evenings on many more local routes almost everyone will be on a return ticket, so the tiny amount of revenue lost is not worth the cost of the staff.

Really? I regularly pay in 300 quid plus on late shifts.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Really? I regularly pay in 300 quid plus on late shifts.

Perhaps the SE is different as Travelcards are what most people buy?

 

[Huntergreed]

I know a lot of people on Scotrail (including some friends and fellow students) take the view that they may as well not buy at the station, as if they’re challenged onboard they don’t lose out at all (it doesn’t cost more) and if they aren’t they’re quids in and get a free ride.

I’ve noticed a huge drop in the frequency of checks on the suburban Glasgow routes - regional and intercity seem about the same.

The different policy really makes a big difference up here - It’s nice not fearing getting slapped with an MG11 if we can’t convince an RPI that a queue was too long, but it’s also potentially losing Scotrail significant revenue. I think somewhere between the two is likely most proportionate.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

An ongoing issue is that in recent times onboard staff have become used to the idea that ticket checking is a very low priority activity, either due to the social distancing necessary at the height of the pandemic or due to poor industrial relations causing low morale. While it can be expected that some people have sufficient self-motivation to find their own way back to previous standards of revenue protection for very many others it will take decent leadership from management. Unfortunately the currently increasing level of DfT intervention in TOC management seems unlikely to encourage such leadership.

 

[LowLevel]

An ongoing issue is that in recent times onboard staff have become used to the idea that ticket checking is a very low priority activity, either due to the social distancing necessary at the height of the pandemic or due to poor industrial relations causing low morale. While it can be expected that some people have sufficient self-motivation to find their own way back to previous standards of revenue protection for very many others it will take decent leadership from management. Unfortunately the currently increasing level of DfT intervention in TOC management seems unlikely to encourage such leadership.

It does of course go back before that anyway. When I started as a guard nearly all my work was pay trains. I regularly cleared £500-£1000 per shift (the most I took in one day was £1750).

At 3.5% commission I made a decent little extra bit of money and we still regularly sold long distance tickets, seasons etc.

The creeping in of TVMs e-tickets, smartcards etc has significantly reduced the amount that you take, although I still far more often than not take more than my wage for day, and often several times it. We did not ask for our routes to become Penalty Fare Zones.

This reduced the reward to the staff involved and the company has been quite happy to reduce their take home wage, whilst still wanting them to check the tickets, but leaving them to sell small cash fares and have a far greater proportion of time dealing with those who don't want to pay, rather than collecting fares on a pay train.

I personally am self motivated anyway, I like that side of the job, but for those who are now expected to accept more hassle for less pay whilst the company shrug and ignore the issue the result is obvious. I am happy to grind 200 plus quid in local fares on an evening train, others won't handle the hassle.

COVID also didn't help and nor does the perception that getting into arguments causes delays that are expensive.

It wouldn't take a management genius to come up with a comparatively cheap scheme to get people back into the habit of checking tickets, but I'm yet to see much of it.

Northern's pay to scan seems to work quite well - you regularly see the guards on their trains again now. Of course bean counters only look at it in pure quantitative terms and I bet even with scanning payments and commission in place, even with some refinement of the scheme to challenge misuse, they would pay out less to their guards than they did in commission 15 years ago.

 

[scrapy]

With regard to late evenings on many more local routes almost everyone will be on a return ticket, so the tiny amount of revenue lost is not worth the cost of the staff.

That used to be the case but nowadays with advance tickets being available on local routes and only being singles, people will but an advance to go out on then chance barriers being open and no ticket checks on board on late night services. Much cheaper than a return and if they end up getting a taxi home instead they not lost out buying a return.

 

[perstreperous]

I was just counting it up and I must have done 3000 journeys Waterloo-Dorking and 1000 journeys on each of St Albans City/Bedford-Sutton and Victoria-Dorking over my working life. Number of ticket checks: three.

That number is right because they were so memorable. All were on SWR. One was late at night and the other two were in the morning - bizarrely, on successive days just after the pandemic was called. Not a single check on either of Thameslink or Southern.

My home station (HNH) is ungated for some reason …

The contrast with the Croydon Tramlink is unbelievable. I’ve been checked every time I’ve travelled, no doubt because the halts are completely open.

 

[Taunton]

On the subject of onboard checks, and a reason why it's probably so uncommon on certain lines with certain tocs- I am currently on a Northern 150/1 on the Chester to Manchester via Northwich line. The guard in all fairness is giving a good effort checking tickets where he can, but the stops are every couple of minutes and he is having to constantly go back and forth to the rear cab to open and close the doors.

Understandably a lot of guards wouldn't bother with the back and forth so may just opt for one check on a longer stretch between stations.

This poses the question - Why did Northern removed the intermediate guards door panels? I say removed they are still fitted on this unit but the lock has been plated over. Doesn't make sense given intermediate panels are common practice on a lot of other TOCs.

The DLR stops every 60 seconds or so, just one crew member, yet the full train gets checked on most trips, as the train conductor can key on at any door to a simple control panel. One does wonder why this approach never seems to get replicated on the main railway, and why the few control panels that are provided are so complex in comparison.

 

[dk1]

The DLR stops every 60 seconds or so, just one crew member, yet the full train gets checked on most trips, as the train conductor can key on at any door to a simple control panel. One does wonder why this approach never seems to get replicated on the main railway, and why the few control panels that are provided are so complex in comparison.

It would have to be fully agreed by the rail unions which seems highly unlikely. Wessex did add extra door control panels to their 150s several years ago but it’s not a cheap fix.

 

[Timmyd]

A question on this subject for those in the know about such things. the Sunday before last I took a trip down the Uckfield line. On the way down, the Guard came through the train checking everyone’s tickets. On the way back, the Guard came through the train asking if she could sell me a ticket. When I said I had one and went to get it out to show her, she said ‘don’t worry about showing me, you only have to do that if the revenue people get on.’ Why the difference? Different grades or just different approaches to their job.

 

[Edsmith]

A question on this subject for those in the know about such things. the Sunday before last I took a trip down the Uckfield line. On the way down, the Guard came through the train checking everyone’s tickets. On the way back, the Guard came through the train asking if she could sell me a ticket. When I said I had one and went to get it out to show her, she said ‘don’t worry about showing me, you only have to do that if the revenue people get on.’ Why the difference? Different grades or just different approaches to their job.

I think all guards are different, some will just walk through the train asking if anyone wants to buy a ticket but aren't interested in checking tickets that people already have, some do ask to see tickets, some look at them closely to make sure everything is in order whilst some will barely even glance at them.

 

[Taunton]

It would have to be fully agreed by the rail unions which seems highly unlikely.

This is one of those things that those outside the Railway Bubble just can't understand. In the rest of the world (unionised or not) the job is what the job is. Why the difference?

 

[Edsmith]

The DLR stops every 60 seconds or so, just one crew member, yet the full train gets checked on most trips, as the train conductor can key on at any door to a simple control panel. One does wonder why this approach never seems to get replicated on the main railway, and why the few control panels that are provided are so complex in comparison.

I'm not sure the full train does get checked on most trips, I've certainly been on the DLR many times when there has been no ticket checks at all.

 

[dk1]

This is one of those things that those outside the Railway Bubble just can't understand. In the rest of the world (unionised or not) the job is what the job is. Why the difference?

As long as it’s within the current way trains operate ie just another door control panel then it wouldn’t be a problem. If it involves any change in the way the train is despatched or door control then it will certainly be a very difficult thing to change.

 

[route101]

Northbound from Preston to Scotland on Avanti and Virgin before that. Rarely get checked.

 

[PedroHav]

Not checking tickets makes a mockery of advance tickets which often require a specific train to travel on. Therefore why not go on any train you like ....

 

[Solent&Wessex]

Not checking tickets makes a mockery of advance tickets which often require a specific train to travel on. Therefore why not go on any train you like ....

Many people do.

Which then causes lots of grief for those colleagues who do actually check tickets properly and delaying them doing the rest of the train.

 

[Chriso]

After complaining about London North Western pleased to report a check on the 16:22 MK to Watford Junction (originated Northampton).

 

[AlastairFraser]

It was happening pre-COVID, so not new. It relates to them doing a survey to find out how many people aren't buying before boarding. Presumably they'll use it to decide which stations need armies of RPIs sent to them. (They don't seem to use the data to decide which routes have guards that hide in the cab). But it's not very passenger friendly if they come along to check your ticket and then the guard does a subsequent check a few minutes later!

Wonder what these people were for! Saw them on an afternoon Preston to Colne service, came along to double check a passenger's ticket after the guard had gone.
Very confusing.

 

[L401CJF]

I caught the 2340ish Manchester Picc to Chester via Northwich last night. Shocked to see tickets being checked throughout! Can't remember the last time I was asked for a ticket on a late service!

 

[scotrail170407]

I caught the 2340ish Manchester Picc to Chester via Northwich last night. Shocked to see tickets being checked throughout! Can't remember the last time I was asked for a ticket on a late service!

Was very surprised to be checked on the last Lancaster - Preston service of the night on Monday too, the northern one that leaves carlisle just after 19:00

 

[Tallguy]

Yesterday I took the London North Western railway 1 stop from Watford Junction to Kings Langley. A journey of 4 minutes. Never been on that bit of line before. At Watford Jct 2 ticket inspectors/RPI’s or what ever got on and started working their way through the carriage behind me. Two guys sat near me were discussing how they were ‘going to get done for not having tickets’ and the RPI’s entered the carriage we were in as we pulled into Kings Langley. The doors opened and the 2 fare dodgers and myself got off with the 2 fare dodgers sprinting down the platform to get into the rear of the train where the RPI’s had started and re-board, thus missing the ticket check. I pointed this out to the RPI’s and mentioned what I had heard. They thanked me and walked down the platform after the 2 guys…..I saw them re-board the train at the same doors the fare dodgers had. My good deed for the day done!

 

[MCSHF007]

Yesterday I took the London North Western railway 1 stop from Watford Junction to Kings Langley. A journey of 4 minutes. Never been on that bit of line before. At Watford Jct 2 ticket inspectors/RPI’s or what ever got on and started working their way through the carriage behind me. Two guys sat near me were discussing how they were ‘going to get done for not having tickets’ and the RPI’s entered the carriage we were in as we pulled into Kings Langley. The doors opened and the 2 fare dodgers and myself got off with the 2 fare dodgers sprinting down the platform to get into the rear of the train where the RPI’s had started and re-board, thus missing the ticket check. I pointed this out to the RPI’s and mentioned what I had heard. They thanked me and walked down the platform after the 2 guys…..I saw them re-board the train at the same doors the fare dodgers had. My good deed for the day done!

Great work!

 

[Edsmith]

Yesterday I took the London North Western railway 1 stop from Watford Junction to Kings Langley. A journey of 4 minutes. Never been on that bit of line before. At Watford Jct 2 ticket inspectors/RPI’s or what ever got on and started working their way through the carriage behind me. Two guys sat near me were discussing how they were ‘going to get done for not having tickets’ and the RPI’s entered the carriage we were in as we pulled into Kings Langley. The doors opened and the 2 fare dodgers and myself got off with the 2 fare dodgers sprinting down the platform to get into the rear of the train where the RPI’s had started and re-board, thus missing the ticket check. I pointed this out to the RPI’s and mentioned what I had heard. They thanked me and walked down the platform after the 2 guys…..I saw them re-board the train at the same doors the fare dodgers had. My good deed for the day done!

A few years ago I drew a couple of Southeastern ticket inspectors attention to a group of chavs who were clearly doing their best to avoid them, they thanked me but seemed in no hurry to pursue them, probably took the view that they would be nothing but trouble.

 

[L401CJF]

A few years ago I drew a couple of Southeastern ticket inspectors attention to a group of chavs who were clearly doing their best to avoid them, they thanked me but seemed in no hurry to pursue them, probably took the view that they would be nothing but trouble.

Similar happened to me a few years back. Boarded an Arriva Trains Wales 150. Conductor came through. The other lad who got on at my stop went straight in the bog. I did tell the guard who replied "spending the journey in one of our toilets is punishment enough" and that was that!

 

[david1212]

A question on this subject for those in the know about such things. the Sunday before last I took a trip down the Uckfield line. On the way down, the Guard came through the train checking everyone’s tickets. On the way back, the Guard came through the train asking if she could sell me a ticket. When I said I had one and went to get it out to show her, she said ‘don’t worry about showing me, you only have to do that if the revenue people get on.’ Why the difference? Different grades or just different approaches to their job.

Looking at the National Rail page for Uckfield it is an open station.

For the return would the majority be travelling to or through a station with barriers? If so hence presuming in use a ticket would be required so effectively a check with the guard just taking the minimum work option of giving those without a ticket the opportunity to buy one.

 

[Amos]

After complaining about London North Western pleased to report a check on the 16:22 MK to Watford Junction (originated Northampton).

Yesterday we traveled from Milton Keynes to Liverpool with London North Western.5 trains in total with no ticket checks on any of them.The only barriers in operation were at Milton Keynes on the outbound journey.

 

[satisnek]

I might have to eat my words. I went to Stafford yesterday (the LNW Birmingham-Crewe service now looping via Tame Bridge Parkway which is... different) and had my ticket checked on both the outward and return journeys (by different guards, perhaps I should add). Mind you, I don't think this new-found enthusiasm has permeated the Snow Hill lines yet...

 

[Rob F]

St Ives branch rarely sees tickets checked in my experience. Had a free journey from Lelant into St Ives this afternoon on a lightly loaded train. The other 6 who got on at Lelant no doubt did not pay either.