Carlisle to Newcastle LNER first

[Getbacktowork]

Good evening all

I want to travel from Carlisle to Newcastle on Saturday evening, first class, on the 21.08 LNER service.

I can't seem to find an easy way to do this.

No first advances.
First advances from Edinburgh (very reasonably priced with a railcard) not technically valid as starting short.
Weekend first is more than the above option for a much shorter journey which doesn't appear reasonable to me, especially considering the original standard ticket cost.
Splits/anomalies etc don't seem to help.

I have drawn a bit of a blank here and just wondered if anyone had any better options? If not will probs go option 2 and hope for the best.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Anything to do with this being a diversionary route for LNER, and the fare setter being Northern, who don't normally ever provide first class accommodation the Tyne Valley line?

 

[Getbacktowork]

Anything to do with this being a diversionary route for LNER, and the fare setter being Northern, who don't normally ever provide first class accommodation the Tyne Valley line?

Yes exactly.

Although one assumes LNER would have the ability (and capacity based upon the seat selector tool) to introduce advances to and from Carlisle on a temporary basis.

 

[hexagon789]

I thought that since the Azumas took over exclusively, that it was no longer possible to alight at Carlisle off the LNER diverts?

Going by this thread: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/lner-diversion-via-carlisle.222747/

 

[yorkie]

I thought that since the Azumas took over exclusively, that it was no longer possible to alight at Carlisle off the LNER diverts?

It is possible; just on some trains last year it wasn't.

 

[Getbacktowork]

I thought that since the Azumas took over exclusively, that it was no longer possible to alight at Carlisle off the LNER diverts?

Going by this thread: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/lner-diversion-via-carlisle.222747/

Thank you for this interesting thread. I'm not sure from a quick read through an overall concensus was reached as to the correct position.

The stop is showing in the journey planner which leads me to believe it is open to passengers. I would therefore be hopeful that any issues regarding trains not opening their doors has been resolved.

 

[yorkie]

Thank you for this interesting thread. I'm not sure from a quick read through an overall concensus was reached as to the correct position.

The stop is showing in the journey planner which leads me to believe it is open to passengers. I would therefore be hopeful that any issues regarding trains not opening their doors has been resolved.

It's an old thread, no longer relevant in 2022.

 

[hexagon789]

It is possible; just on some trains last year it wasn't.

Thanks for the clarification, @yorkie

Thank you for this interesting thread. I'm not sure from a quick read through an overall concensus was reached as to the correct position.

The stop is showing in the journey planner which leads me to believe it is open to passengers. I would therefore be hopeful that any issues regarding trains not opening their doors has been resolved.

Indeed, it appears not. It did seem that, however, at that period you couldn't rely on the doors always being opened for passengers at Carlisle.

But as mentioned by Yorkie above, that is not the case now.

 

[Wallsendmag]

This threads turned up a little late this time around

 

[BluePenguin]

This threads turned up a little late this time around

Seeing as you have made it onto this thread, can you confirm anything for us?

 

[zero]

I travelled on this route again this year. Unlike last year, there was no indication that Carlisle was anything but a normal stop (from the perspective of a person who does not know that it's a diversionary route).

 

[AlterEgo]

I travelled on this route again this year. Unlike last year, there was no indication that Carlisle was anything but a normal stop (from the perspective of a person who does not know that it's a diversionary route).

I also travelled this year, just a few weekends ago. Again, Carlisle was advertised as a regular stop, and indeed the train did stop and passengers alighted and boarded.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Seeing as you have made it onto this thread, can you confirm anything for us?

Sorry no, as in previous years we don't price a FDS/FHR or any Advance for the four or so weekends that we operate this way.

 

[zero]

What would happen if someone boarded at Carlisle and sat in First (either with or without having purchased a standard ticket before boarding)

 

[AlterEgo]

What would happen if someone boarded at Carlisle and sat in First (either with or without having purchased a standard ticket before boarding)

Surely they’d be sold the appropriate ticket between Carlisle and London or Carlisle and Edinburgh, as per the NRCoT?

 

[zero]

Surely they’d be sold the appropriate ticket between Carlisle and London or Carlisle and Edinburgh, as per the NRCoT?

The OP wanted to go to Newcastle though

 

[Haywain]

What would happen if someone boarded at Carlisle and sat in First (either with or without having purchased a standard ticket before boarding)

They would be charged for a standard class ticket and a weekend first upgrade, I guess.

 

[Watershed]

Surely they’d be sold the appropriate ticket between Carlisle and London or Carlisle and Edinburgh, as per the NRCoT?

The NRCoT gives TOCs the right to charge the fare to the next stop. Which, in the direction towards London, would be Newcastle. The NRCoT are thus silent on exactly what fare is due in this circumstance.

 

[philthetube]

What would happen if someone boarded at Carlisle and sat in First (either with or without having purchased a standard ticket before boarding)

If without they could end up in court, though if they had tried to buy before boarding and the ticket was not available that could be interesting.

 

[Wallsendmag]

A ticket is available, SDS CAR-NCL and a weekend first

 

[Watershed]

A ticket is available, SDS CAR-NCL and a weekend first

There does not appear to be an LNER Weekend First fare defined for this flow. Although I suspect it would just be charged as Edinburgh to Newcastle.

 

[Wallsendmag]

There does not appear to be an LNER Weekend First fare defined for this flow. Although I suspect it would just be charged as Edinburgh to Newcastle.

I would doubt very much if anyone would actually buy one

 

[Haywain]

There does not appear to be an LNER Weekend First fare defined for this flow. Although I suspect it would just be charged as Edinburgh to Newcastle.

Either way it would qualify as a short journey with a weekend first rate of £35.

 

[Watershed]

Either way it would qualify as a short journey with a weekend first rate of £35.

Probably. But if the ticket office were (as you might expect) unable to sell a ticket and told the passenger to buy onboard, that would mean that section 51 of the CRA would apply. I'm unconvinced that £35, one-way, would be seen as a "reasonable price" given the standard fare is £18.70 return.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Either way it would qualify as a short journey with a weekend first rate of £35.

Wow, that's got expensive. £35 for London to Stevenage? Wow. £15 for Avanti Standard Premium for a comparable trip, and I doubt you'd get £20 worth of freebies for a short trip!

First Anytime Day Return for London to Stevenage is just £36.20! I hope if anyone asks for that they just excess them up instead.

 

[Haywain]

Probably. But if the ticket office were (as you might expect) unable to sell a ticket and told the passenger to buy onboard, that would mean that section 51 of the CRA would apply. I'm unconvinced that £35, one-way, would be seen as a "reasonable price" given the standard fare is £18.70 return.

It's the same as would be paid for many shorter journeys on LNER, so I don't see it can suddenly be unreasonable.

 

[Watershed]

It's the same as would be paid for many shorter journeys on LNER, so I don't see it can suddenly be unreasonable.

On most other journeys where a day return is around £18.70 (Darlington to Newcastle, or London to Stevenage, for instance), the availability of 'normal' first class fares means that the extortionate Weekend First rate won't be charged. For instance, a Darlington to Newcastle upgrade would be just £2.70, whilst London to Stevenage would be £10.50 (at most, depending on what standard class fare is used as the comparator).

In any event, there is no requirement for the price to be "reasonable" if it is agreed before the contract is entered into. The CRA doesn't prevent consumers from knowingly agreeing to poor bargains. It does, however, regulate prices that aren't defined prior to the service being provided - as is the case here.