Worst Rail Routes for fare collection in members' experience?

[VideozVideoz]

Very rare to be checked on Southern. Often they announce the are walking through the train but never show presumably because they are at certain positions for short platforms. Although technically DOO there are more similarities with the Guard role than originally envisaged ie keying in at each station.

I was once on a service from SOUTHAMPTON to BRIGHTON and somewhere nearer Brighton, on came 2 inspectors who checked the whole train and got off at Brighton. They were not backwards in coming forwards. That’s my only experience of Southern ticket checking

 

[Clansman]

Glasgow Central to Mount Florida whenever something is on at Hampden. Too many crowds to enforce ticket checks, so the barriers are always open.

 

[Kite159]

I've had a couple checks on Southern in the last couple months on the 377 operated services (between Southampton & Swanwick on a Brighton train & on a Portsmouth train around Angerming), but it is still quite rare. I suspect if you travelled between two stations which don't have barriers you will chance it to avoid paying.

Although as some of the West Coastway trains can get hopelessly overcrowded, you can't blame the OBS for not checking tickets. Probably working on the basis that most passengers will be travelling to/from one of the main stations which have barriers

 

[43066]

Although as some of the West Coastway trains can get hopelessly overcrowded, you can't blame the OBS for not checking tickets. Probably working on the basis that most passengers will be travelling to/from one of the main stations which have barriers

Indeed.

This also applies to the southern section of the WCML and might well explain @Bletchleyite ‘s observations of lack of checking on WMR services.

 

[bramling]

I’m pretty certain (after reading a particular page on Facebook), that the attitude comes from the fact the island line has been absorbed into the wider SWR network from a control point of view where as they were largely self regulated.

This was the feeling I picked up. I don’t want to post too much, however one could certainly pick up a feeling that stuff was being imposed which was upsetting the apple cart.

 

[DannyMich2018]

The Birmingham-Nuneaton-Leicester route is awful for revenue collection. Ticket checks are rare. The Nuneaton to Birmingham section always been poor even back in Central Trains days for this.

 

[Sussex Ben]

My recent experience of travelling on the Brighton Main Line has been unusual in that I am significantly more likely to get my ticket checked on my DOO Thameslink service in the morning than on my OBS worked Southern service in the evening.

Frustrating to say the least, especially as the OBS often walks through the train, they just have no intention of checking tickets for whatever reason.

 

[VideozVideoz]

The Birmingham-Nuneaton-Leicester route is awful for revenue collection. Ticket checks are rare. The Nuneaton to Birmingham section always been poor even back in Central Trains days for this.

I’ve been checked everytime! Travelled the route a few times in the past month. A guard found a young lad with an invalid ticket with no means to buy another. His details were taken

 

[Bogallan]

As a Conductor working out a depot on the south WCML I must say I find it depressing how few of my colleagues venture out from their hideaways, let alone check tickets. There are some conductors that have recently started with us and most of these, at the moment, from what I have seen, seem to be pro active which is good. I become bored if I’m not doing something, and on most trains you can have a “craick” with the passengers especially on the more lightly loaded ones. So it passes the time. I was on yesterday, Sunday, and to be fair I would say, at a rough guess, 97% had valid tickets on the 5 trains I worked. I have a ticket scanner, so picked up one chap who showed a ticket “Cancelled by TTL (that’s the Trainline), he bought another… another who had exited with a ticket at New St on 5th August, he bought another…as well a one person with an out of date, by 6 months railcard, she bought another. All were perfectly pleasant though, trying I suppose to dodge the the fare, but paid up. I find, if you are quiet and pleasant in the vast majority of cases all can be resolved without the “red mist” descending. By my walking through the train too, some will undoubtedly have bought tickets when they saw me enter the carriage - this shows up as “Purchase after depart” in red on the ticket, so I have a gentle word with them and ask them if I hadn’t come around checking your ticket, would you have bought one? A few, genuine people, smile and say “No”. At least they are being honest I suppose. Even if conductors would only walk through the train, telling people to take their feet off the seats and stopping any loud music playing or any other anti social behaviour it would help and re-assure passengers too. I put the general malaise down to few checks by our bosses and staff not being pulled up on the matter. I was once told many years ago, there are “Railwaymen” and men who work on the railway. Sadly, I have witnessed fewer and fewer “Railwaymen”. Most now, seem to join for the money, rather than the love of the job. Just my two penny worth.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

The OBS staff on Gatwick Express now announce over the PA that any ticket Thameslink or Southern are valid up to Gatwick. After that, the correct GX ticket must be held. I don’t remember this being the policy before covid ?

If you have recently been told your Thameslink or Southern ticket will be invalid on Gatwick Express north of the airport, I advise you to make @yorkie aware of this, particularly if you have been charged an additional fare.

 

[winks]

I wasn’t charged - it was just a PA announcement as we were getting into Gatwick.

Are you saying that thameslink and southern tickets are valid north of Gatwick into L Vic as I don’t believe they are, surely this defeats the object of Gatwick Express ?

 

[43066]

Are you saying that thameslink and southern tickets are valid north of Gatwick into L Vic as I don’t believe they are, surely this defeats the object of Gatwick Express ?

Don’t open up that can of worms .

(Yes they are appears to be the consensus).

 

[Watershed]

Are you saying that thameslink and southern tickets are valid north of Gatwick into L Vic as I don’t believe they are, surely this defeats the object of Gatwick Express ?

There is a class action lawsuit underway against GTR for charging people new tickets/Penalty Fares, as well as telling them they must buy an Any Permitted ticket, to travel on Gatwick Express branded service.

Suffice it to say, it's something which has long been discussed on the forum and which should soon be definitively answered from a legal perspective.

 

[Bertiethebobby]

As a Conductor working out a depot on the south WCML I must say I find it depressing how few of my colleagues venture out from their hideaways, let alone check tickets. There are some conductors that have recently started with us and most of these, at the moment, from what I have seen, seem to be pro active which is good. I become bored if I’m not doing something, and on most trains you can have a “craick” with the passengers especially on the more lightly loaded ones. So it passes the time. I was on yesterday, Sunday, and to be fair I would say, at a rough guess, 97% had valid tickets on the 5 trains I worked. I have a ticket scanner, so picked up one chap who showed a ticket “Cancelled by TTL (that’s the Trainline), he bought another… another who had exited with a ticket at New St on 5th August, he bought another…as well a one person with an out of date, by 6 months railcard, she bought another. All were perfectly pleasant though, trying I suppose to dodge the the fare, but paid up. I find, if you are quiet and pleasant in the vast majority of cases all can be resolved without the “red mist” descending. By my walking through the train too, some will undoubtedly have bought tickets when they saw me enter the carriage - this shows up as “Purchase after depart” in red on the ticket, so I have a gentle word with them and ask them if I hadn’t come around checking your ticket, would you have bought one? A few, genuine people, smile and say “No”. At least they are being honest I suppose. Even if conductors would only walk through the train, telling people to take their feet off the seats and stopping any loud music playing or any other anti social behaviour it would help and re-assure passengers too. I put the general malaise down to few checks by our bosses and staff not being pulled up on the matter. I was once told many years ago, there are “Railwaymen” and men who work on the railway. Sadly, I have witnessed fewer and fewer “Railwaymen”. Most now, seem to join for the money, rather than the love of the job. Just my two penny worth.

That’s nice to know that you check tickets. I do get frustrated when I see teenagers jumping on and off at unstaffed stations, judgemental I know! Do the TOC management not look at the disparity between conductor’s takings on the same route?

 

[paul1609]

There is a class action lawsuit underway against GTR for charging people new tickets/Penalty Fares, as well as telling them they must buy an Any Permitted ticket, to travel on Gatwick Express branded service.

Suffice it to say, it's something which has long been discussed on the forum and which should soon be definitively answered from a legal perspective.

Realistically since the revenue risk on the route has been with the Dft for many years they must be confident of winning. If not surely they would have reorganised GTR as a holding company in the same model as OLR /LNER/Northern.

 

[Watershed]

Realistically since the revenue risk on the route has been with the Dft for many years they must be confident of winning. If not surely they would have reorganised GTR as a holding company in the same model as OLR /LNER/Northern.

Indemnity will be something for GTR and the DfT to agree between each other, if it isn't explicitly defined in the management contract terms. With such a huge claim, it's almost always going to be better for them to fight it rather than to accept it - the legal costs would be far outweighed by the amount being claimed for.

 

[paul1609]

Indemnity will be something for GTR and the DfT to agree between each other, if it isn't explicitly defined in the management contract terms. With such a huge claim, it's almost always going to be better for them to fight it rather than to accept it - the legal costs would be far outweighed by the amount being claimed for.

Have Govia reported the claim to the stock market?

 

[Watershed]

Have Govia reported the claim to the stock market?

They would be in serious trouble if they hadn't!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I do get frustrated when I see teenagers jumping on and off at unstaffed stations

Well you shouldn't. If you assume someone has dodged paying simply because they got on/off at an unstaffed station and are a teenager, then shame on you frankly. How unfortunate to be that sort of person.

 

[LowLevel]

Well you shouldn't. If you assume someone has dodged paying simply because they got on/off at an unstaffed station and are a teenager, then shame on you frankly. How unfortunate to be that sort of person.

That's life. We all have innate prejudices, it's part of being human. Denying them is more problematic than being open about them. I have to regularly remind myself not to be cynical and being surprised/humbled every now and then is very useful.

I've lost count how many times my years of experience have made me go "oh bugger, here we go, they'll be fun and games" in my head when someone has boarded my train - including individuals I've had problems with in the past.

It is quite pleasing that the majority of the time it is unfounded, either producing a ticket or means of payment, and backing up my personal belief that circumstances and foibles aside, most people are perfectly pleasant if you treat them in a pleasant fashion by return.

We used to have a chap who I've not seen for years who used to go through the train bins looking for leftovers for his dog/himself. People would assume he was a fare evader but he always bought a ticket (before boarding) with the proceeds of his activities that day (he went busking in one of the satellite towns of the city I am based at as he got less trouble there, and returned to the city at night to sleep around other homeless folk for safety in numbers) and he was always perfectly nice to talk to for 2 minutes between stations.

The same goes for groups of kids generally. My innate reaction is to sigh, but actually they're usually fine.

 

[Bertiethebobby]

Well you shouldn't. If you assume someone has dodged paying simply because they got on/off at an unstaffed station and are a teenager, then shame on you frankly. How unfortunate to be that sort of person.

Shhh… it’s a chat about trains, stop overreacting

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Shhh… it’s a chat about trains, stop overreacting

I hope nobody ever discriminates you due to stereotypes and prejudice, that's all I'll say.

_

I was checked on the North Downs line today for the first time in ages. Very pleasant inspector.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

As a Conductor working out a depot on the south WCML I must say I find it depressing how few of my colleagues venture out from their hideaways, let alone check tickets. There are some conductors that have recently started with us and most of these, at the moment, from what I have seen, seem to be pro active which is good. I become bored if I’m not doing something, and on most trains you can have a “craick” with the passengers especially on the more lightly loaded ones. So it passes the time. I was on yesterday, Sunday, and to be fair I would say, at a rough guess, 97% had valid tickets on the 5 trains I worked. I have a ticket scanner, so picked up one chap who showed a ticket “Cancelled by TTL (that’s the Trainline), he bought another… another who had exited with a ticket at New St on 5th August, he bought another…as well a one person with an out of date, by 6 months railcard, she bought another. All were perfectly pleasant though, trying I suppose to dodge the the fare, but paid up. I find, if you are quiet and pleasant in the vast majority of cases all can be resolved without the “red mist” descending. By my walking through the train too, some will undoubtedly have bought tickets when they saw me enter the carriage - this shows up as “Purchase after depart” in red on the ticket, so I have a gentle word with them and ask them if I hadn’t come around checking your ticket, would you have bought one? A few, genuine people, smile and say “No”. At least they are being honest I suppose. Even if conductors would only walk through the train, telling people to take their feet off the seats and stopping any loud music playing or any other anti social behaviour it would help and re-assure passengers too. I put the general malaise down to few checks by our bosses and staff not being pulled up on the matter. I was once told many years ago, there are “Railwaymen” and men who work on the railway. Sadly, I have witnessed fewer and fewer “Railwaymen”. Most now, seem to join for the money, rather than the love of the job. Just my two penny worth.

Travel infrequently on the Abbey Line but did one day last Thursday , and I have to say the (young) conducter was superb in both PA announcements , keeping the train going at intermediate calls, and especially on revenue sales and checking.

So yes - well done , and he said he had a very proactive view on ticket selling when I thanked him for his diligence and service.

 

[mikeg]

It depends on the day as much as anything around here. On almost every route they're quite active on the weekdays. However on a Saturday for example fare evasion into York is rife. I've even overheard people make comments such as 'oh I never pay to York? You mean you bought a ticket?' This on a penalty fare service. Also can count on one hand the number of times tickets have been checked going back in the evening. Can't say I blame the guards for not wanting to check, but wouldn't some proper RPIs not go amiss rather than a few hired goon security guards with no revenue training?

 

[Kite159]

I guess the Abbey line is better for revenue since it went over to 350 run, as don't they have more door panels in which the guard can do the doors?

Whereas on the 319 the guard could only do the doors from the back cab (so all those pay when challenged would go towards the front coach)

It depends on the day as much as anything around here. On almost every route they're quite active on the weekdays. However on a Saturday for example fare evasion into York is rife. I've even overheard people make comments such as 'oh I never pay to York? You mean you bought a ticket?' This on a penalty fare service. Also can count on one hand the number of times tickets have been checked going back in the evening. Can't say I blame the guards for not wanting to check, but wouldn't some proper RPIs not go amiss rather than a few hired goon security guards with no revenue training?

Especially on TPE on the trains from Redcar, all those people who think payment is optional into the front unit for a reduced chance of getting gripped (as the guard has to stay in the rear unit).

 

[VideozVideoz]

By my walking through the train too, some will undoubtedly have bought tickets when they saw me enter the carriage - this shows up as “Purchase after depart” in red on the ticket, so I have a gentle word with them and ask them if I hadn’t come around checking your ticket, would you have bought one?

but how is that possible because when you try and buy a retrospective ticket for an already departed service, it says “not available” on the apps. You have to buy a ticket for a later service

 

[py_megapixel]

but how is that possible because when you try and buy a retrospective ticket for an already departed service, it says “not available” on the apps. You have to buy a ticket for a later service

It'll be based on which service the scanner has been set up for, not which one has been chosen when buying the ticket

 

[XAM2175]

but how is that possible because when you try and buy a retrospective ticket for an already departed service, it says “not available” on the apps. You have to buy a ticket for a later service

It'll be based on which service the scanner has been set up for, not which one has been chosen when buying the ticket

Which is to say that the passenger will have got around the already-departed restriction by selecting a later train.

 

[Kite159]

And no doubt some of those passengers who only buy a ticket when they see the guard coming through would have only purchased it from the last station the train called at, rather than where they started from hoping to get away with paying less.

 

[VideozVideoz]

Unless the guard

And no doubt some of those passengers who only buy a ticket when they see the guard coming through would have only purchased it from the last station the train called at, rather than where they started from hoping to get away with paying

Unless the guard recognises where they got on and challenges them. Not sure how well guards spot these things