Are there ANY Heritage Railway extensions being actively pursued?

[Jan Mayen]

Following on from the Pickering thread, I was wondering if any railways are pursuing extensions. I'm aware the Bluebell is/was consulting on re-opening Horsted Keynes to Ardingly. Are there any others?

 

[stuu]

Lynton and Barnstaple Railway is fund raising and has permission to start building back towards the south. They hope to rebuild the whole line, one day

 

[John Luxton]

Llangollen is currently completing the permanent Corwen station which now looks as though it will open Spring 2023 quite a few years after the original target. This will see the line extended by a few yards from the site of the temporary Corwen East closed 2018 to the new site. AS it is still being worked on then I guess the extension is being pursued.

 

[AndrewE]

Bala Lake Railway into the town?
Great Central N from Loughborough over the Midland Main Line?

 

[steamybrian]

Kent & East Sussex Railway/Rother Valley Railway awaiting outcome of their application for a Transport &Works Order to rebuild the section between Robertsbridge and Bodiam.
The track is already laid between Robertsbridge and Northbridge Street also site of Junction Road Halt to Bodiam

 

[Maude673]

The strathspey railway were still pursuing their extension to Grantown on Spey last time I was up there pre covid, although, I can’t see any update post 2020 on their website.

 

[pdeaves]

The heritage line at Alnwick extended fairly recently. I understand that this is temporary pending further extension towards Alnmouth; maybe someone can confirm.

 

[zwk500]

The GCR are doing some quite big work on the Loughborough gap, think @Flying Phil may be able to give more detail?

 

[kwrail]

Following on from the Pickering thread, I was wondering if any railways are pursuing extensions. I'm aware the Bluebell is/was consulting on re-opening Horsted Keynes to Ardingly. Are there any others?

I am not so sure that the Bluebell are actively pursuing the western extension. It's in their long-term plans but my understanding is that the recent planning application is more designed to keeping the extension alive. I am sure that someone from the Bluebell team can confirm whether I have got this right.

With the current economic situation leading to fewer passengers my guess is that most heritage railways are putting any investment in extensions on hold and simply concentrating on riding out the coming storm.

 

[zwk500]

I am not so sure that the Bluebell are actively pursuing the western extension. It's in their long-term plans but my understanding is that the recent planning application is more designed to keeping the extension alive. I am sure that someone from the Bluebell team can confirm whether I have got this right.

There are certainly more than a few hurdles for the Bluebell to clear before they can start any physical work, but this at least keeps the project ticking over.

With the current economic situation leading to fewer passengers my guess is that most heritage railways are putting any investment in extensions on hold and simply concentrating on riding out the coming storm.

I suspect most will be taking the Bluebell's approach unless there is a clear need for extension. Keeping the strategic level rolling along, talking to councils and the heritage fund etc, but not really buying land or permanent way materials unless they get a very good deal.

 

[Sm5]

what are North Staffs plans for Stoke, Leek, Alton Towers and Cauldon Low ?

That was a big push of a big expansion a decade ago..

 

[zwk500]

what are North Staffs plans for Stoke, Leek, Alton Towers and Cauldon Low ?

That was a big push of a big expansion a decade ago..

It turns up in the local paper about once a year when the MP needs a ratings boost, I think, but not much more.

 

[Sm5]

It turns up in the local paper about once a year when the MP needs a ratings boost, I think, but not much more.

I dont quite get it, I went for Cauldon Low reopening and everything was very optimistic, they were targetting trains to Stoke and Alton Towers.

I recall them clearing the line to Endon, but last thing I heard Endon hasnt reopened, Oakamoor was lifted, as was Cauldon Low (the very line they reopened). Looking on google maps Oakamoor looks to have been built on. it looks like in the last 10 years theyve shrunk back considerably, as opposed to expanding.

Seems a shame as it was so full of promise.

 

[zwk500]

I dont quite get it, I went for Cauldon Low reopening and everything was very optimistic, they were targetting trains to Stoke and Alton Towers.

I recall them clearing the line to Endon, but last thing I heard Endon hasnt reopened, Oakamoor was lifted, as was Cauldon Low (the very line they reopened). Looking on google maps Oakamoor looks to have been built on. it looks like in the last 10 years theyve shrunk back considerably, as opposed to expanding.

Seems a shame as it was so full of promise.

Maybe the promise turned out to be not as much as was thought? The 2007 financial crisis will have hit a lot of things badly, it wouldn't surprise me if sums done in 2003-04 were no longer true by 2010.

 

[A0]

Of those working on extensions:

Northampton & Lamport - southern extension to Boughton Crossing is coming together nicely, track in place and station platform being built. Once complete they're turning their attention to heading northwards from Chapel Brampton and towards, initially, Merry Tom Crossing.

Wensleydale Railway - Scruton to Northallerton and the Leyburn to Redmire - though that may be more restoring what they had than new extension.

Mid Norfolk - working towards Elham / County School.

 

[A0]

Maybe the promise turned out to be not as much as was thought? The 2007 financial crisis will have hit a lot of things badly, it wouldn't surprise me if sums done in 2003-04 were no longer true by 2010.

I think the Churnet Valley is struggling generally - this week is half-term in most of the country and they're running nothing at all. Whereas they were running mid-week trains throughout October which seems counter-intuitive.

They've got nothing for Hallowe'en which is usually a bit of an opportunity to get families in.

In reality they've probably got enough on their hands keeping their existing line running - yes I'm aware that Staffs and Moorland are technically separate to the CVR, but scratch beneath the surface and the two are not as separate as it appears.

 

[snowball]

Bala Lake Railway into the town?

Definitely being pursued. You can read about it on their website.

 

[Trainlog]

Kent & East Sussex Railway/Rother Valley Railway awaiting outcome of their application for a Transport &Works Order to rebuild the section between Robertsbridge and Bodiam.
The track is already laid between Robertsbridge and Northbridge Street also site of Junction Road Halt to Bodiam

I did ask the 4253 group and Rother valley railway back in the summer about this and they both came back with they are waiting on the Transport secretary atm to give permission after the resulting public consultation. They should have heard from them back in July but I haven't seen anything on RVR blogs on the topic neither has there been any articles in the railway related presses about this issue.

Hopefully there could be some form of update around the Spring on this extension, but as its not a priority i wouldn't be surprised if it took longer.

Edit: Was looking at the 4253 website Earlier today and managed to find a link they have posted from the Rother Valley railway site.

Inquiry - Statement from the RVR Trust

A message from Gardner Crawley, Chairman of the RVR Heritage Trust I would like to take this opportunity to thank all those who wrote in ...

rvrailway.blogspot.com

 

[Halifaxlad]

Kent & East Sussex Railway/Rother Valley Railway awaiting outcome of their application for a Transport &Works Order to rebuild the section between Robertsbridge and Bodiam.
The track is already laid between Robertsbridge and Northbridge Street also site of Junction Road Halt to Bodiam

I would have thought a T&WO wouldn't have been needed for simply rebuilding a line ?

 

[steamybrian]

I would have thought a T&WO wouldn't have been needed for simply rebuilding a line ?

It is not as simple as just relaying 2 miles of track.
There are three level crossings to reinstate - so a method of operating has to be agreed. Two local residents who bought sections of trackbed after BR closed the line are objecting to the line reopening. Those residents removed sections of embankments which will have to be rebuilt. The route runs along a flood plain so careful flood mitigation has to be planned.
Is permission going to be granted to reinstate the halts at Junction Road and Salehurst.? I understand that Salehurst may possibly only be rebuilt.?
Finally footpaths crossing the route will have to be considered.

 

[Halifaxlad]

It is not as simple as just relaying 2 miles of track.

I certainly never said it was or gave any indication that I thought it was!

My general point is this...

Permission for the railway has already been granted within the original enabling act.

T&WO are generally required for new bits of line that are outside of the original enabling act like what NR is proposing to do with TRU between Huddersfield and Ravensthorpe. If it wasn't for having to acquire land that previously wasn't a railway then NR wouldn't have submitted a T&WO!

 

[steamybrian]

I certainly never said it was or gave any indication that I thought it was!

My general point is this...

Permission for the railway has already been granted within the original enabling act.

T&WO are generally required for new bits of line that are outside of the original enabling act like what NR is proposing to do with TRU between Huddersfield and Ravensthorpe. If it wasn't for having to acquire land that previously wasn't a railway then NR wouldn't have submitted a T&WO!

I thought that once a railway was abandoned then operating and construction powers cease.

The route between Junction Road and Northbridge Street was abandoned by BR so the KESR/RVR will have to acquire the land. I am unsure whether any slight realignments will be necessary considering some sections of the embankments have been removed and the precise alignment lost. The level crossing over the A21 (Robertsbridge by-pass) will be new as the road was built after the railway was finally abandoned in the 1970s.

My local heritage railway (Spa Valley Railway) had to obtain a Light Railway in 1993 even though the track was in situ. The order transferred all operating powers and authority to undertake construction work.to the heritage railway

 

[Llanigraham]

The Corris Railway are actively proceeding southwards with the building of a small deviation and new culvert over a stream towards Pont Efans.
Ultimately they want to get to the Centre for Alternative Technology and then hopefully Machynlleth itself.

 

[Trainfan344]

Gwili railway only recently expanded their line, practically doubling their length and are now working on Abergwili Junction to expand further.

Gwili Railway Abergwili Junction Development

Heritage Train Rides and experiences in Carmarthen, Wales

gwili-railway.co.uk

 

[snowball]

Gwili railway only recently expanded their line, practically doubling their length and are now working on Abergwili Junction to expand further.

Gwili Railway Abergwili Junction Development

Heritage Train Rides and experiences in Carmarthen, Wales

gwili-railway.co.uk

However I think the idea of extending eventually to Carmarthen station has been dropped permanently. Flood defence walls alongside the river have been raised since the original railway was closed. I believe there is not enough headroom for the railway to go over these while going under the A484.

 

[47434]

Of those working on extensions:

Northampton & Lamport - southern extension to Boughton Crossing is coming together nicely, track in place and station platform being built. Once complete they're turning their attention to heading northwards from Chapel Brampton and towards, initially, Merry Tom Crossing.

Wensleydale Railway - Scruton to Northallerton and the Leyburn to Redmire - though that may be more restoring what they had than new extension.

Mid Norfolk - working towards Elham / County School.

Wensleydale have a live appeal for re-opening to Redmire. Makes huge sense. Northallerton less so. When they ran to Northallerton regularly despite all the noise about it being essential, very few people used the service - in fact not enough to even cover the diesel. It is also resource hungry with 3 crossings requiring keepers.

 

[izvor]

Weardale Railway from Wolsingham back down to Bishop Auckland and, ultimately, up the valley beyond Stanhope to Eastgate or Westgate.

 

[lil Bear]

I think the Churnet Valley is struggling generally - this week is half-term in most of the country and they're running nothing at all. Whereas they were running mid-week trains throughout October which seems counter-intuitive.

They've got nothing for Hallowe'en which is usually a bit of an opportunity to get families in.

In reality they've probably got enough on their hands keeping their existing line running - yes I'm aware that Staffs and Moorland are technically separate to the CVR, but scratch beneath the surface and the two are not as separate as it appears.

Don't know where you've got your information from, but nothing could be further from the truth.

Half Term running was cancelled after the agreement with the third party who was going to run the halloween trains was cancelled. There wasn't enough time to re-organise, so the week was spent prepping for the Polar Express instead (which this year attracted 55,000 passengers - not bad for a "struggling" railway). That's after attracting over 22,000 passengers on the dining services alone in 2022.

With regards to the extensions:
LEEK is progressing, if it wasn't for COVID / Lockdowns / red tape / supply issues the line would be open. Plan is to complete the extension in 2023 with proposed event openings later in the year.
CAULDON track was sold by Moorlands & City (not CVR) in 2014, but CVR acquired the lease in 2016. Once Leek is done thoughts can turn to reopening this section (and there are proposals).
OAKAMOOR/MONEYSTONE was lifted due to requirment for repairs, high levels of vandalism and need to purchase the trackwork for LBJ to Ipstones. However ownership remains with the CVR, nothing has been built on railway land and an external planning application has been submitted to convert the former quarry into an outdoor pursuits centre with provision for an accompanying railway station... We await further developments.
STOKE is with the council, CVR have been honest and said they will never have the finance themselves to re-open this line. Offers have been made to run an initial heritage service to Endon / Wall Grage over the years, and after seveeral falso dawns its still to happen. We have enough going on though to keep us busy without the distraction of a mainline connection (for now) and so until something more substantial occurs don't expect anything to head West any time soon.

Look forward to welcoming people to Leek later this year, we've quietly been getting on with things in Staffordshire and if you come and make a visit I think you'll be surprised with what has been achieved so far.

 

[A0]

Don't know where you've got your information from, but nothing could be further from the truth.

Half Term running was cancelled after the agreement with the third party who was going to run the halloween trains was cancelled. There wasn't enough time to re-organise, so the week was spent prepping for the Polar Express instead (which this year attracted 55,000 passengers - not bad for a "struggling" railway). That's after attracting over 22,000 passengers on the dining services alone in 2022.

With regards to the extensions:
LEEK is progressing, if it wasn't for COVID / Lockdowns / red tape / supply issues the line would be open. Plan is to complete the extension in 2023 with proposed event openings later in the year.
CAULDON track was sold by Moorlands & City (not CVR) in 2014, but CVR acquired the lease in 2016. Once Leek is done thoughts can turn to reopening this section (and there are proposals).
OAKAMOOR/MONEYSTONE was lifted due to requirment for repairs, high levels of vandalism and need to purchase the trackwork for LBJ to Ipstones. However ownership remains with the CVR, nothing has been built on railway land and an external planning application has been submitted to convert the former quarry into an outdoor pursuits centre with provision for an accompanying railway station... We await further developments.
STOKE is with the council, CVR have been honest and said they will never have the finance themselves to re-open this line. Offers have been made to run an initial heritage service to Endon / Wall Grage over the years, and after seveeral falso dawns its still to happen. We have enough going on though to keep us busy without the distraction of a mainline connection (for now) and so until something more substantial occurs don't expect anything to head West any time soon.

Look forward to welcoming people to Leek later this year, we've quietly been getting on with things in Staffordshire and if you come and make a visit I think you'll be surprised with what has been achieved so far.

I will stand by my assertion that Moorlands & City Railway and the Churnet Valley are not as separate as people are being led to believe.

Companies house lists the officers of any company, Moorlands City Railway has only ever had 2 serving officers of any length of time - there was a 3rd who served for a month during the initial set up and is listed as a solicitor and a professional services company which again served for 1 month during the initial set up.

So let's look at those two officers:

Currently, there is only one current officer who has been with the company since its inception in February 2009 - this same person was also a director of the Churnet Valley between 1994 and 2018.

A former officer of Moorlands & City Railway (who resigned in October 2019 having been with it since its inception) is a current director of the Churnet Valley and has been since 2004.

And in 2011 MCR listed under a 'Particulars of a Mortgage or Charge' a 'legal charge' where the Mortgagee was..... Churnet Valley Railway 1992 Ltd.

Lastly, guess who the main Shareholders for M&CR have been throughout this time........

Let's just say, I'm not sure it's all as transparent as you'd like to suggest it is.

In terms of my other information - usually the railway's website - which is what showed nothing was running during October half term, a time which most railways run as they know there are families looking for things to do.

On the Polar Express - if it secured 55,000 passengers, then that's encouraging - but the Santa Specials / Polar Express are a big thing and the railways know that.

Let's take a look at the middle of the summer holidays - throughout August the railway is only running Tues, Weds, Sat and Sun - and for "normal" i.e. non dining there are only 2 departures. Now it's clearly not reasonable to compare the CVR with the likes of the Great Central, the Severn Valley etc - but even against similar lines, that's not much of an offer. The Ecclesbourne Valley for example, less than an hour away from the CVR in August is running 5 days a week with 3 departures, plus special events pencilled in for August as well. The Midland Railway Centre at Butterley was also running 5 days a week with 6 departures.

How extending the line to Leek helps the railway is unclear - the line is already 10 miles, adding to that when running a fairly basic service feels like adding cost without increasing revenue.

 

[lil Bear]

As a named Director with one of associated companies, I can tell you Moorlands & City have no involvement with the current Churnet Valley Railway. That relationship ended with the transfer of the Cauldon lease, and the resignation of the directors from the respective companies as spotted. CVR bought shares under their Share Issue 4 which granted them free access to all lines controlled by MCR. Following SMDC rejection of MCR Reconnect Leek project, the CVR started their own project as MCR moved onto other projects away from the Staffs Moorlands. It is CVR own Reconnect Leek project which is bearing fruit, and will see some form of service in 2023.

As for the website, if you’d looked earlier than October you will have seen a Ghost Train experience shown. But as stated, this was cancelled when an arrangement with a third party was as cancelled. Events can’t just be put on at a whim, they take planning and the decision was made to focus on preparations for Polars instead of try to scrape a 2-3 day event together last minute.

As for service levels, have you actually travelled on all trains you list? If the CVR fills both its trips, whilst A.N.Other line only fills 1 out 6 who’s in the better state? The CVR knows its customer, and people aren’t tending to stay a full day. The service available basically offers a morning or afternoon trip, and we’re finding the enthusiasts are filling the morning trip before returning to their families etc, whilst the families are coming for an afternoon out having done whatever in the morning.

Success is about knowing your custom, and selling what sells. Not making guesswork from behind a pc.