TPE leaving stations early

[Aaron1]

So I an currently on the TPE service from Doncaster to Grimsby and we seem to be running early!

We left Scunthorpe at 15:16 rather than the scheduled 15:18, but I note national rail enquiries states we left on time, we didn't we left 2 mins early.

We then left Barnetby at 15:30 rather than the scheduled 15:41! National rail enquires again states departed on time, we didn't depart on time we departed a full 11 mins early!

We was then stood at a signal between Barnetby and Habrough, I am assuming to give back some of the time we have gained.

Why is this happening? Obviously it isn't affecting me but what if somebody missed the train at Barnetby as they got to the station for 15:41 the scheduled departure time, would they be able to claim delay repay? Or are they ultimately stuffed as national rail enquires app is showing a totally different story to what actually happened, I leave a station 11 mins too early is very poor imo and could impact passengers and it's not their fault

 

[CyrusWuff]

Looking on Realtime Trains suggests an amended schedule for today, so it's possible the Driver and/or Guard may have failed to pick up the altered schedule card. Mistakes do happen, as they're only human after all.

 

[DanNCL]

Makes a change from them not running at all!

Things like this happen from time to time. Usually if the guard tries dispatching train early the driver will notice and stop the dispatch, but occasionally it happens where neither notice they're running early and therefore the train leaves early.

Is National Rail Enquiries capable of showing when a train is early? I've only ever seen it show 'on time' or a delay.

 

[dk1]

Looking on Realtime Trains suggests an amended schedule for today, so it's possible the Driver and/or Guard may have failed to pick up the altered schedule card. Mistakes do happen, as they're only human after all.

It’s normally a fresh printed diagram (Sheila) every day now & has been for around 10 or more years for us. I would assume most TOCs are the same.

 

[43066]

Looking on Realtime Trains suggests an amended schedule for today, so it's possible the Driver and/or Guard may have failed to pick up the altered schedule card. Mistakes do happen, as they're only human after all.

Virtually zero chance of that happening.

Things like this happen from time to time. Usually if the guard tries dispatching train early the driver will notice and stop the dispatch, but occasionally it happens where neither notice they're running early and therefore the train leaves early.

Virtually zero chance of this happening, either!

 

[Llandudno]

So I an currently on the TPE service from Doncaster to Grimsby and we seem to be running early!

We left Scunthorpe at 15:16 rather than the scheduled 15:18, but I note national rail enquiries states we left on time, we didn't we left 2 mins early.

We then left Barnetby at 15:30 rather than the scheduled 15:41! National rail enquires again states departed on time, we didn't depart on time we departed a full 11 mins early!

We was then stood at a signal between Barnetby and Habrough, I am assuming to give back some of the time we have gained.

Why is this happening? Obviously it isn't affecting me but what if somebody missed the train at Barnetby as they got to the station for 15:41 the scheduled departure time, would they be able to claim delay repay? Or are they ultimately stuffed as national rail enquires app is showing a totally different story to what actually happened, I leave a station 11 mins too early is very poor imo and could impact passengers and it's not their fault

Are sure it wasn’t the previous train running 49 minutes late…!

 

[800001]

Are sure it wasn’t the previous train running 49 minutes late…!

Here is the train from realtrain times

Realtime Trains | 1G82 1448 Doncaster to Cleethorpes | 13/11/2022

Real-time train running information for 1G82 1448 departure from Doncaster to Cleethorpes on 13/11/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[DanNCL]

Virtually zero chance of this happening, either!

Is it not the responsibility of all involved in the dispatch process to ensure that a train isn’t dispatched early? Therefore guard, driver, and (where present) platform dispatchers.

 

[muz379]

Why is this happening? Obviously it isn't affecting me but what if somebody missed the train at Barnetby as they got to the station for 15:41 the scheduled departure time, would they be able to claim delay repay? Or are they ultimately stuffed as national rail enquires app is showing a totally different story to what actually happened, I leave a station 11 mins too early is very poor imo and could impact passengers and it's not their fault

Id suspect TPE customer relations wont be using national rail enquiries to verify the time the train actually run .

And yes I would suspect if any passenger missed the early running train and ended up being late to the level that would trigger delay repay they would have a valid claim .

 

[Aaron1]

Are sure it wasn’t the previous train running 49 minutes late…!

Absolutely postive, I was actually on the train in question!

 

[Peterthegreat]

Trains between Doncaster and Cleethorpes were retimed today because of engineering work in the Sheffield area. This particular train had a large amount of pathing time inserted following a freight train. However the freight was late and the TPE one preceeded it.........

 

[43066]

Is it not the responsibility of all involved in the dispatch process to ensure that a train isn’t dispatched early? Therefore guard, driver, and (where present) platform dispatchers.

Nope. Dispatch is really down to the guard and/or platform staff. Drivers on guarded trains will get two on the bell, check the signal and go.

DOO at self dispatch locations is a different matter, of course.

 

[dk1]

In the days when the guard always dispatched us I regularly buzzed them before departing if it was too early. Would be the usual culprits who would then reply “have I done it again” lol.

 

[Driver2B]

Nope. Dispatch is really down to the guard and/or platform staff. Drivers on guarded trains will get two on the bell, check the signal and go.

DOO at self dispatch locations is a different matter, of course.

Agreed. I had a guard the other day whose watch was maybe a minute early! I agree that trains should not depart early (or earlier than 30 seconds early where it is advertised that train doors close 30 seconds early), but my TOC considers it a PTI (platform train interface) risk for me not to leave after being given the ready to start signal - potentially the longer I wait, the more chance of people arriving on the platform and touching the train.

However, if there's a sepcial timetable and we have a wait of sa 6 or 7 minutes and the guard gives me the ready to start, I do buzz them up and point out the timetabled dwell time.

A couple of months ago, I had a guard attempt to dispach me 7 minutes early at a station where we always have 7 minutes (if we arrive on time) at any time of the day and any day of the week. I buzzed him up then too.

 

[43066]

Agreed. I had a guard the other day whose watch was maybe a minute early! I agree that trains should not depart early (or earlier than 30 seconds early where it is advertised that train doors close 30 seconds early), but my TOC considers it a PTI (platform train interface) risk for me not to leave after being given the ready to start signal - potentially the longer I wait, the more chance of people arriving on the platform and touching the train.

However, if there's a sepcial timetable and we have a wait of sa 6 or 7 minutes and the guard gives me the ready to start, I do buzz them up and point out the timetabled dwell time.

A couple of months ago, I had a guard attempt to dispach me 7 minutes early at a station where we always have 7 minutes (if we arrive on time) at any time of the day and any day of the week. I buzzed him up then too.

Absolutely. If it’s an obvious mistake such as 10 mins early then clearly you might say something (albeit I’ve never known that happen - generally I won’t even be in the driving seat ten mins before departure!) . If it’s a minute or so it’s down to the guard and not for us to quibble about. There’s enough to do as a driver checking the signal etc. without worrying about precisely what time you’re being dispatched.

Typical of the self entitled “everything is someone else’s fault” attitude in society these days. I’ve seen it happen time and again; people arrive late for a train and, rather than take responsibility missing the train, they will start swearing at dispatch staff etc. Exactly the same people who will moan constantly if trains are a minute late (which is so often due to people holding doors open etc).

 

[Watershed]

Typical of the self entitled “everything is someone else’s fault” attitude in society these days.

Is it really that unreasonable to expect the train to leave on time (shock horror!), and not early?

Some of the things you say seem to suggest you want the rail industry to work like Yorkshire Airlines

 

[43066]

Is it really that unreasonable to expect the train to leave on time (shock horror!), and not early?

Yes and in all of the examples I’ve witnessed this happening the train is leaving on time; either closing doors slightly ahead of booked departure as advertised, or already running late. Do you think it’s acceptable for people to swear at and abuse platform staff in that scenario?

As someone who must have self dispatched as a DOO driver something into the hundreds of thousands of times, closing the doors 30 - 45 seconds ahead of booked departure is the only way to get the train to leave on time once all the various train/PTI safety checks are completed. Guard based procedures can be a little longer due to closing the local door.

Of course we know on here people want the impossible eg complaining the railway doesn’t hold trains for people, as well as expecting it to run on time etc.

(Off topic but airlines occasionally do leave slightly ahead of schedule when they have all the passengers aboard, but that’s a different scenario of course )

 

[LYuen]

Absolutely. If it’s an obvious mistake such as 10 mins early then clearly you might say something (albeit I’ve never known that happen - generally I won’t even be in the driving seat ten mins before departure!) . If it’s a minute or so it’s down to the guard and not for us to quibble about. There’s enough to do as a driver checking the signal etc. without worrying about precisely what time you’re being dispatched.

Typical of the self entitled “everything is someone else’s fault” attitude in society these days. I’ve seen it happen time and again; people arrive late for a train and, rather than take responsibility missing the train, they will start swearing at dispatch staff etc. Exactly the same people who will moan constantly if trains are a minute late (which is so often due to people holding doors open etc).

Reminded me the Japanese culture where, if the train is scheduled to depart at 11:01:55 and driver departs 30 seconds early, they can get away with it, because the passenger facing timetable does not print seconds. While if it is scheduled at 11:02:05 and it departs 10 seconds early, they are in big trouble as complaints will be flooding in, as passenger will think the train has departed '1 minute too early'.