Temporary Timetable 13th Dec - 7th Jan

[yorksrob]

With regard to this posting I've just seen, on a FB group, the attached poster which is on display at Lancaster. Without retyping the whole lengthy thing, it seems to suggest issues (potentially no service at all) between 11th-18th Dec (reduced service on 18th) and 1st-9th Jan (reduced service on 1st, normal on 2nd, reduced on 9th).

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Where does it say that on the website, do you have a link?

Does it say what service that relates to ?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Does it say what service that relates to ?

It's in Avanti West Coast's colours and displayed at Lancaster so I suspect them.

 

[yorksrob]

It's in Avanti West Coast's colours and displayed at Lancaster so I suspect them.

Ah thanks.

The Northern service to Lancaster from my neck of the woods is in the unusual position of being generally reliable, but any whiff of industrial action and its ditched.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Ah thanks.
The Northern service to Lancaster from my neck of the woods is in the unusual position of being generally reliable, but any whiff of industrial action and its ditched.

The Lancaster poster must be for Avanti, as it includes their Train Manager strike days which won't affect other TOCs.
But if NR can't resource signalling everything will stop.
The WCML normally manages some sort of special service on NR strike days, but not much on the branches.

 

[yorksrob]

The Lancaster poster must be for Avanti, as it includes their Train Manager strike days which won't affect other TOCs.
But if NR can't resource signalling everything will stop.
The WCML normally manages some sort of special service on NR strike days, but not much on the branches.

Thanks for the info. I wasn't previously aware that Avanti train managers had their own strike days.

 

[Jan Mayen]

Information from https://www.gwr.com/strike
extract: "Train services could also be disrupted from 18 December 2022 to 2 January 2023 as Network Rail may only be able to provide a reduced window of operation. This means a reduced timetable would be in operation, with train services not starting until 07:30 and all journeys being completed before 18:30"

 

[cygnus44]

No, it just shows what happens when you have obsolete plant equipment being used to run an obstensibly modern railway.

If a signal box controlling something important is out of action the entire line is out of action, that is just the way it is with this sort of equipment

This is why modernisation of signalling is such an important thing, and why the railways continuous failures in this respect are going to cause serious problems moving forward.

Well if another person can not be found , it just goes to show how badly the service is run . Is it there for
the convenience of the public who pay for it, or the staff

 

[bramling]

Well if another person can not be found , it just goes to show how badly the service is run . Is it there for
the convenience of the public who pay for it, or the staff

It isn’t really convenient for staff having positions uncovered.

A location I know has something like 10 vacancies, a trickle in training (there’s only so much training that can happen at any one time), and a whole load of retirements imminent. It really isn’t good on numerous levels to be running a place on that level of overtime, though of course someone somewhere is probably still making a saving as that’s ten times all the incidental costs of staff not needing to be paid.

 

[Horizon22]

If all trains have to have completed their journey by 1830 there won't really be an evening peak.

On strike days, people do tend to shift their journeys back to 1730ish, but if its 0600-1800 that's worse than 0700-1900 for your average 9-5 workers.

As has been suggested, a full on overtime ban by NR staff wouldn't affect just signallers, but some critical response and control roles too.

 

[The Planner]

It is going to be horrific.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It is going to be horrific.

But what it would do is have the same effect as an all-out strike on bringing this to a head, I reckon. Giving the Government the choice of negotiating or trying a "miners" or "dockers" approach.

 

[zwk500]

But what it would do is have the same effect as an all-out strike on bringing this to a head, I reckon. Giving the Government the choice of negotiating or trying a "miners" or "dockers" approach.

Trying to bait the government into the fight many of the ministers want is not going to do the economy, government, unions, or railway any good at all. And losing out worst of all will be the ordinary people, who'll have to pick up the tab one way or another.

 

[nuneatonmark]

I am sure there will be an agreement eventually. However, I suspect that for many rail workers it's going to be quite a pyrrhic victory when the customers don't come back, investment is reduced and redundancies happen. Us travelling public, sod 'em. I am sure the unions will probably strike over that too. Having said that the government just exacerbated the issues by failing to negotiate. Maybe, they see it as good way of reducing costs in the long term? Talk about an omni-shambles.

 

[Jan Mayen]

I understand there was a meeting with the RMT and The Transport Secretary today. Anyone know how that went?

 

[350401]

For those of us not involved in the industry, the general impression is that the railway just is not reliable. We don’t care whose fault it is, please just get it sorted. I can WFH so I’m fortunate, but I’m still facing a 6 hour coach or £150 flight to see my family for Christmas. As a result, I’m learning to drive. The disruption risk is now so regular, that despite living in London, it is worth buying a car, paying local authority parking charge, tax, ULEZ charge etc. Next year, I won’t be using the railway for my Christmas visit home. Or for many trips. I imagine a lot of people are feeling the same - this really risks starting a nasty circle of decline.

 

[zwk500]

For those of us not involved in the industry, the general impression is that the railway just is not reliable. We don’t care whose fault it is, please just get it sorted. I can WFH so I’m fortunate, but I’m still facing a 6 hour coach or £150 flight to see my family for Christmas. As a result, I’m learning to drive. The disruption risk is now so regular, that despite living in London, it is worth buying a car, paying local authority parking charge, tax, ULEZ charge etc. Next year, I won’t be using the railway for my Christmas visit home. Or for many trips. I imagine a lot of people are feeling the same - this really risks starting a nasty circle of decline.

Indeed. I was fully intending to use the railway this year when coming back to avoid the faff of getting insured on a car for a brief amount of time (or hiring one), but the inability to depend on what the railway will do and the fact I have very limited windows to travel means I'll be driving around the UK. The only trains I will get this Christmas are the Eurostar and connections to get me to London.

 

[Bletchleyite]

While a few people like yourselves who don't own a car may buy one, most people do own a car, so returning to the railway in better times isn't a big step.

I think if you do buy a car, once over the honeymoon period, you too won't be utterly obsessed with its use.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

I understand there was a meeting with the RMT and The Transport Secretary today. Anyone know how that went?

BBC report Lynch as saying

RMT union boss Mick Lynch has said he is hopeful that the government will make an offer that could end the planned rail strikes.
On his way into a meeting with Rail Minister Huw Merriman on Friday he said the government would "hopefully… put an offer on the table".
He said he expected the offer to be "modest" but said the dispute was "definitely moving".
Talks have concluded for the day but will continue over the weekend.
Ahead of the meeting, Mr Lynch said: "It's definitely different to the last six months."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-63832933

 

[yorksrob]

If it's the Government agreeing to the offer that was supposedly hammered out a couple of weeks ago, there might be some grounds for optimism. We shall see

 

[Deepgreen]

While a few people like yourselves who don't own a car may buy one, most people do own a car, so returning to the railway in better times isn't a big step.

I think if you do buy a car, once over the honeymoon period, you too won't be utterly obsessed with its use.

Returning to the railway in better times will (unfortunately) be a big step psychologically for many. People who have adopted new habits become wedded to them and can take a lot of persuasion - getting people from cars onto trains is notoriously hard work. I fervently hope it doesn't come to that.

 

[Benjwri]

While a few people like yourselves who don't own a car may buy one, most people do own a car, so returning to the railway in better times isn't a big step.

I would never have dreamed of bringing a car to uni when I first went, however last year our bus service was absolutely abysmal, and a car became a necessity. This year I’ve heard it’s far, far better, and to be fair the few times I’ve used it it has been, yet I still drive and wouldn’t really consider taking the bus. I would argue that’s a pretty similar situation to the railway. And with ticket prices ever rising it’s often now cheaper to drive.
Habits are hard to break, but once they’re broken you form new ones that are equally hard to break. It also takes a lot of good experiences to make up for a bad one. I dont think it is so easily to regain lost customers in many situations, especially those outside London.

 

[zwk500]

I would never have dreamed of bringing a car to uni when I first went, however last year our bus service was absolutely abysmal, and a car became a necessity. This year I’ve heard it’s far, far better, and to be fair the few times I’ve used it it has been, yet I still drive and wouldn’t really consider taking the bus. I would argue that’s a pretty similar situation to the railway. And with ticket prices ever rising it’s often now cheaper to drive.
Habits are hard to break, but once they’re broken you form new ones that are equally hard to break. It also takes a lot of good experiences to make up for a bad one. I dont think it is so easily to regain lost customers in many situations, especially those outside London.

I agree that this is exactly the kind of situation we could see.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Thanks for the info. I wasn't previously aware that Avanti train managers had their own strike days.

Actually I've just seen that the Avanti TM dispute strikes have been called off, as the rosters for the new timetable have been agreed.
It grounded all Avanti trains for the last couple of weekends.
Maybe a chink of light...

 

[yorksrob]

Actually I've just seen that the Avanti TM dispute strikes have been called off, as the rosters for the new timetable have been agreed.
It grounded all Avanti trains for the last couple of weekends.
Maybe a chink of light...

Yes, cause for hope !

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

I would never have dreamed of bringing a car to uni when I first went, however last year our bus service was absolutely abysmal, and a car became a necessity. This year I’ve heard it’s far, far better, and to be fair the few times I’ve used it it has been, yet I still drive and wouldn’t really consider taking the bus. I would argue that’s a pretty similar situation to the railway. And with ticket prices ever rising it’s often now cheaper to drive.
Habits are hard to break, but once they’re broken you form new ones that are equally hard to break. It also takes a lot of good experiences to make up for a bad one. I dont think it is so easily to regain lost customers in many situations, especially those outside London.

Of course there will be some loses but given its only a minority of the population that use the train anyhow there's plenty more people to seduce in future and given the scale of off peak travel that has occurred post covid despite all the nonsense pedalled about travelling on public transport i believe you will find it will be short lived.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Returning to the railway in better times will (unfortunately) be a big step psychologically for many. People who have adopted new habits become wedded to them and can take a lot of persuasion - getting people from cars onto trains is notoriously hard work. I fervently hope it doesn't come to that.

I am afraid so. Furthermore, if someone has bought a car just to evade the disruption, they are not going to waste money on train tickets one things get better unless they can sell that car. Once the car has reached the end of its life I fear the train service will have shrunk due to lack of demand so be no longer an option.

I remember the death throws throes of the coal mining industry. Is it really getting that bad again ?.

 

[Peregrine 4903]

I am afraid so. Furthermore, if someone has bought a car just to evade the disruption, they are not going to waste money on train tickets one things get better unless they can sell that car. Once the car has reached the end of its life I fear the train service will have shrunk due to lack of demand so be no longer an option.

I remember the death throws of the coal mining industry. Is it really getting that bad again ?.

I think this is an overreaction.

 

[InkyScrolls]

I am afraid so. Furthermore, if someone has bought a car just to evade the disruption, they are not going to waste money on train tickets one things get better unless they can sell that car. Once the car has reached the end of its life I fear the train service will have shrunk due to lack of demand so be no longer an option.

I remember the death throws of the coal mining industry. Is it really getting that bad again ?.

Pendant time: That should be 'throes'.

 

[Peter Sarf]

I think this is an overreaction.

I think so. But I cannot believe things have got to such a stage where it is a consideration.

Pendant time: That should be 'throes'.

Thanks, corrected.

 

[Peterthegreat]

Pendant time: That should be 'throes'.

Pedant time. This should be "pedant".