RMT Extends Strike Action on Network Rail to Dec 24-27

[6Gman]

As a member of the general public who enjoys travelling by train I must say I now haven't a clue who is striking and when, "working to rule" or generally destroying what at normal times is quite a functional transport system. I love the language of "being compelled to take this action", as opposed to "we have chosen of our own free will to take this action because we believe we are strong, important and worthy of being paid far more than most other people with jobs guaranteed for life and no compromise on outdated and totally unaffordable working practices."

Well, good luck with that. The general public are behind you all the way. A long way behind.

I remember being told that when I joined the railway.

By the age of 40 I was made redundant.

Just saying.

(And can you give examples of "outdated and totally unaffordable working practices"?)

 

[Whistler40145]

How long until the public run out of support for the striking rail workers?

 

[Bald Rick]

Not sure if it has been posted upthread (this has moved along quickly!) but the TSSA have withdrawn all action on NR, is putting the deal to members, with a recommendation to accept.

So what does the TSSA see that the RMT doesn’t? (Or vice versa)?

 

[brad465]

I do think someone needs to publish an analysis of how much automating services on a high priority programme (i.e. putting everything into it now rather than just incorporating it into normal replacement schedules) will cost, including infrastructure upgrades, rolling stock replacement, knock-on effects of disruption during essential works, and then what investment returns are received, when they're likely to be first seen and how long it will take to pay for itself. The argument comes up a lot among ordinary members of the public opposed to strike action, but I do wonder what support it will gain if they knew all of the above? My current instinct is it will all make HS2 look like loose change and a basic start-up job time-wise.

 

[12LDA28C]

Interesting that the RMT have cancelled the rest day working / overtime ban - I considered that action their strongest threat and the one most likely to make the Government sit up and take notice and start making moves towards a settlement. I thought that was pretty likely to happen this week, I'm not so sure now.

 

[brad465]

Not sure if it has been posted upthread (this has moved along quickly!) but the TSSA have withdrawn all action on NR, is putting the deal to members, with a recommendation to accept.

So what does the TSSA see that the RMT doesn’t? (Or vice versa)?

How big a union is the TSSA compared to RMT? I'm guessing much smaller as they don't make the headlines as much.

 

[winks]

I see no mention of this “significantly improved offer “ that Tim Shovellor refers to ….

 

[diffident]

How long until the public run out of support for the striking rail workers?

It's the tight-rope that the RMT are walking. I think to answer your question, the answer is now.

 

[bramling]

Seemingly neither does the government!



I’m not sure what you mean by “far left types”. I know a cross section, including quite a few recent Tory voters, who are fully supportive, and strikes are happening across a huge range of sectors.

Many ordinary working people in this country have simply reached the end of their tether, which has nothing to do with being “far left”.

I get the feeling there is an element of “stick finger up at government”. Pretty much everyone I know or converse with is absolutely and totally sick of this government and their antics. I suspect that for some people who might on the fence over going out, the way this government has been carrying on is probably enough to make them decide to go out.

I am actually coming round to the idea that a general election isn’t such a bad idea after all.

 

[bramling]

It's the tight-rope that the RMT are walking. I think to answer your question, the answer is now.

I don’t really get this feeling. If it was just the rail industry then that might be another matter, but it’s pretty much the entire public sector. Most people seem pretty sick of this government.

If we get no gritters out on the roads later this month and that coincides with a cold snap, the rail strikes won’t even be mentioned in the news.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Interesting that the RMT have cancelled the rest day working / overtime ban - I considered that action their strongest threat and the one most likely to make the Government sit up and take notice and start making moves towards a settlement. I thought that was pretty likely to happen this week, I'm not so sure now.

From what I can see, the lifting of the rest day/overtime ban relates to Network Rail staff, not the TOCs.

 

[KM1991]

It's the tight-rope that the RMT are walking. I think to answer your question, the answer is now.

Really? How many people do you interact with on the railways day to day? This incompetent government is deeply unpopular, and that is what we always link this dispute back to - It resonates well with most people I come across.

On another point though, ultimately, it just doesn’t matter.

 

[jayah]

In 1982 Mr Howell threatened to sack the striking ASLEF members, offering them new employment conditional on accepting the new rosters.

The RMT and DfT, RDG, NR are as far away as ever.

1982 Hansard

 

[43066]

I do think someone needs to publish an analysis of how much automating services on a high priority programme (i.e. putting everything into it now rather than just incorporating it into normal replacement schedules) will cost, including infrastructure upgrades, rolling stock replacement, knock-on effects of disruption during essential works, and then what investment returns are received, when they're likely to be first seen and how long it will take to pay for itself. The argument comes up a lot among ordinary members of the public opposed to strike action, but I do wonder what support it will gain if they knew all of the above? My current instinct is it will all make HS2 look like loose change and a basic start-up job time-wise.

I’m just not sure this would serve any purpose: the point does come up, but only amongst people who are so clueless that they’re highly unlikely to be interested in reading any such report into why it isn’t realistic. The answers are already there for anyone interested enough in the subject to read about it.

The important people in this dispute all know that automation is a very, very long way off.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

In 1982 Mr Howell threatened to sack the striking ASLEF members, offering them new employment conditional on accepting the new rosters.

The RMT and DfT, RDG, NR are as far away as ever.

1982 Hansard

At least 40 years on we haven't got to that low point - yet

 

[SilentGrade]

There were certainly a lot of members not at all happy with the union for calling the OT ban. Presumably this got fed back. But I would also expect quite a few to quietly ignore the strike call - a reasonable percentage have been doing that anyway, but when it’s £2k or so on the line for two (very quiet) days at work, then temptation is strong…

NEC shooting themselves in the foot. The new dates will do nothing but increase the chances of Ops staff coming into work, and once you’ve done it once…

 

[diffident]

Really? How many people do you interact with on the railways day to day? This incompetent government is deeply unpopular, and that is what we always link this dispute back to - It resonates well with most people I come across.

On another point though, ultimately, it just doesn’t matter.

I use the railway everyday, and the frustrations with strikes and the cancellations we suffer is very clear with the commuters I travel with.

 

[winks]

Just read the NR offer on TSSA website. £1750 or 5% whichever is greater is obviously a better deal than 4+4% which has been made to TOCs. I don’t work for NR so can’t say what the feeling is but seems like it’s a deal that will be marginally voted in favour.

 

[43066]

At least 40 years on we haven't got to that low point - yet

It is low, and I wouldn’t put anything past this lot. However I just don’t see this working as a tactic with ASLEF, given how short of drivers the railway already is, how many of those approaching retirement would simply walk, and the loss of goodwill etc.

What I do see as a potentially more worrying prospect for the RMT is a carrot being offered to ASLEF in the form of a more reasonable pay offer, but with widespread DOO being required as a string. I suspect this would be more effective, as history has shown.

 

[brick60000]

A few. More in the TSSA. But in NR at least more than 90% of the planners being called out on strike by these unions have come to work.

Not surprising, when you consider that the reason planners are so stressed is because of workload. It’s the kind of profession where if you don’t do the work one day, it’s just sat waiting in your inbox the next - so the only person that really loses is themselves, because they are still expected to meet deadlines….

How big a union is the TSSA compared to RMT? I'm guessing much smaller as they don't make the headlines as much.

A bit of an underdog I think it’s fair to say - I think everybody has always underestimated their ability to decimate a service.

Controllers, duty train crew managers, fleet support staff, depot maintenance staff - all often within the TSSA. You can have all the train crew you like on duty - without any of these, you’re not going very far!

 

[Bald Rick]

Interesting that the RMT have cancelled the rest day working / overtime ban - I considered that action their strongest threat and the one most likely to make the Government sit up and take notice and start making moves towards a settlement. I thought that was pretty likely to happen this week, I'm not so sure now.

See my post on the other thread yesterday. Government knows exactly what the impact is (or would be) of the strike action and overtime ban etc., and what the repercussions are. They are quite happy to let the union go along as it is.

In 1982 Mr Howell threatened to sack the striking ASLEF members, offering them new employment conditional on accepting the new rosters.

The RMT and DfT, RDG, NR are as far away as ever.

1982 Hansard

To be fair it was BR that (almost) pulled the trigger on the ASLEF members, not the Government. Letters of dismissal were printed and distributed to depots.

How big a union is the TSSA compared to RMT? I'm guessing much smaller as they don't make the headlines as much.

Smaller, yes, and also a much smaller bank account!

 

[VC00]

Sorry if this is wrong thread- will it be likely trains are running from Inverness to London on Christmas Eve?

 

[NorthernSpirit]

It’s making a nightmare of travelling in a day without strike action.

I cannot see why both the 25th and 26th aren't used as strike days too (yes its Christmas but it would be quite effective on Boxing Day when hoards of shoppers see a strike take place) along with the 27th December to the 1st January - basically to just get it over with as I can see an increase in friction between the paying customer, staff and the RMT/ASLEAF/TSSA/Unite once the fares shoot up again next year.

I just look forward to passing my driving test as these strikes are causing problems for the job that I do considering that I have to be actively mobile and be able to travel to speak to customers, sign paperwork and inspect stock in person before it is sent to the main warehouse.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Just read the NR offer on TSSA website. £1750 or 5% whichever is greater is obviously a better deal than 4+4% which has been made to TOCs. I don’t work for NR so can’t say what the feeling is but seems like it’s a deal that will be marginally voted in favour.

For those on lower salaries it certainly is a good fair deal and i suspect it will favour mtce staff more than ops side as more are on lower basic in those grades. Of course it doesn't deal with T&Cs but they are being progressed separate to pay I believe.

 

[dk1]

Sorry if this is wrong thread- will it be likely trains are running from Inverness to London on Christmas Eve?

Good chance but with LNERs industrial relations expect a change of train in Edinburgh to avoid disappointment.

 

[DelW]

I get the feeling there is an element of “stick finger up at government”. Pretty much everyone I know or converse with is absolutely and totally sick of this government and their antics. I suspect that for some people who might on the fence over going out, the way this government has been carrying on is probably enough to make them decide to go out.

I am actually coming round to the idea that a general election isn’t such a bad idea after all.

Do you think that a Labour government would somehow be able to find the money to pay double digit percentage increases, not just to railway workers, but to the NHS, teachers, and all the other public sector workers contemplating strike action?

The Truss / Kwarteng mini-budget's failure showed there was little scope for increasing borrowing beyond where we are already, so any such pay increases can only be funded by increasing taxes. "Soaking the rich" doesn't produce enough revenue, and I suspect business tax receipts are dropping as a result of bankruptcies, recession, and shopping diverting to tax-dodging multinationals.

The reality is that a toxic combination of Brexit, Covid and Putin's war on Ukraine have damaged our economy to the extent that we are all, on average, worse off than three years ago, and there's very little that any government, or any of us, can do about it.

 

[Bald Rick]

Sorry if this is wrong thread- will it be likely trains are running from Inverness to London on Christmas Eve?

Well there would only be one through service, the up Highland Chieftain at 0755. I’d say there’s a 50% chance it will run - other strikes may yet be called for that date (by ASLEF, for example), and there may be amendments to Christmas Eve services because of the RMT strike that evening.

 

[nedchester]

I find myself in two camps about this dispute I actually think the pay offer is derisory and think an offer nearer the rate of inflation is needed

But I do think there is need for reform in working practices especially when it comes to more flexible working, Sundays inside and possible DOO on lines suited. I find it bizarre that DOO has been operating since 1982 (that’s 40 YEARS!) but not extended to other lines. Things like Sundays inside actually mean MORE staff of course……..

 

[Bluejays]

Standard daily mail comment here (I couldn’t resist but have a look):



What an eloquent chap!

It strikes me even the knuckle draggers on DM’s BTL are less anti union than they usually are. Luckily Ginge and Whinge have released another trailer so perhaps they’re distracted!

Not sure if I fancy being atomated mind, sounds quite painful

 

[43066]

Do you think that a Labour government would somehow be able to find the money to pay double digit percentage increases, not just to railway workers,

This rather misses the point that enough money has likely already been tabled to end this dispute, if not for some or the proposed reforms, many of which are mostly ideological and won’t result in many quick wins in terms of savings, if any.

But I do think there is need for reform in working practices especially when it comes to more flexible working, Sundays inside and possible DOO on lines suited. I find it bizarre that DOO has been operating since 1982 (that’s 40 YEARS!) but not extended to other lines. Things like Sundays inside actually mean MORE staff of course……..

I think Sundays inside is looking more like committed Sundays for those with them currently outside (no surprise there as it’s cheaper!).

Some of the proposed reforms are inevitable eg ticket office closures
and I think the unions realise this, to be fair. Bringing across the board DOO into the mix when it still isn’t even feasible in many places, and when it hasn’t been broached with ASLEF, seems more like an attempt to make an “offer” that they knew would be rejected.