Chiltern Trains interfered with by passenger

[nap666]

Chiltern Trains Interfered With on 9th November, police looking for culprit.

British Transport Police have put out an appeal after a man boarded a train at London Marylebone on November 9 and began to tamper with it.
This led to the doors not being able to open as it arrived at Bicester Village and passengers not being able to alight.
He then boarded a train to Banbury and interfered with the same part of the train on this service.
The man then boarded a train from Banbury to Solihull and tampered with another area of the train which caused the service to break down...

 

[Spartacus]

Surprised someone who works for Chiltern hasn't identified him, sounds like the actions of a disgruntled former member of staff, though could have worked for another company.

 

[busestrains]

What exactly did he do? It sounds like the first thing they mention was him locking out the passenger doors with a T Key which would have prevented them from opening? I am not sure what the second thing is that caused the train to break down? Does anyone know more about what exactly he did?

 

[O L Leigh]

Railway keys. I've said it before, but access to railway keys should be better controlled. It's fine to say that they are collectible, but the problem is that they can also be used for nefarious purposes if they fall into the wrong hands. We can't just sit back and say that those who have fallen from the path to righteousness don't know what they're for, as this (and other) incidents illustrate.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Railway keys. I've said it before, but access to railway keys should be better controlled. It's fine to say that they are collectible, but the problem is that they can also be used for nefarious purposes if they fall into the wrong hands. We can't just sit back and say that those who have fallen from the path to righteousness don't know what they're for, as this (and other) incidents illustrate.

The railway needs to solve this one itself by stopping using T-keys. They're everywhere, easy to make and there are lots of legitimate reasons for having one given that it's not only the railway that uses them. The railway needs to move to a more secure system, what makes sense may differ by application, e.g. cab locks may make sense to be electronic and opened by a fob, then there might be a key for locking doors out on that class of train in a box in the cab.

There is no practical way to prevent people getting T-keys, or indeed other keys that work some T-key locks (e.g. a house or car key can be used diagonally in a T-key lock without a pin - I've done this to open windows on a sweltering Class 166 with failed aircon to applause from other passengers and requests to open more, and I'd happily stand up in Court and defend having done so if the railway wanted to be awkward - the temperatures in summer on a 166 with the aircon out are a H&S issue).

The only thing a T-key should be able to be used for, if they're kept at all, is an application where you can't do any harm, e.g. opening a door panel fairing or other similar access panel but not being able to switch it on or do anything else nefarious.

 

[TrainTrackJack]

Railway keys. I've said it before, but access to railway keys should be better controlled. It's fine to say that they are collectible, but the problem is that they can also be used for nefarious purposes if they fall into the wrong hands. We can't just sit back and say that those who have fallen from the path to righteousness don't know what they're for, as this (and other) incidents illustrate.

Your point proven especially well with this individual.... I believe he's a child.
The 'bio' caps it all off.

(Image shows screenshot of what is believed to be a 15 year old child's Instagram account, with a selection of Railway Keys and a caption at the top of his account stating "If you see me using my keys in a mainline service, the guard will have given me permission".)

 

[busestrains]

Railway keys are far too easy to get hold. The three most common railway keys (T Key and BR1/BR1B Key and Master Key) allow you to access at least 90% of all locks on the railway. These three keys are incredibly easy to get hold of. They appear on Ebay and Etsy and Gumtree and other sites every week. Additionally there are many websites that sell them. Some websites require proof of working on the railway but other websites will sell to anyone. There are a couple websites out there where anyone can purchase railway keys with no checks at all.

There are even some websites that sell rarer keys without any checks that allow you to access various signalling equipment and infrastructure and electrics and gates. If you know what you are looking for you can easily get hold of any railway key. They are all available online to anyone if you look in the right place.

Many trains are very unsecured and use these T Keys for almost everything. An example is all of the Siemens Desiro and Siemens Desiro City trains use T Keys to open the panels and the T Keys to active panels and also for various other things. Most old BREL stock is the same. Some trains such as the Bombardier Electrostar and Bombardier Turbostar and Meridians and Voyagers are slightly more secure as they have their own separate keys. But even these keys can be acquired if you know how.

It is difficult to solve this. You could issue a new key for everything on the railway but any key will probably get in to the wrong hands eventually. They could have a new system where staff have to sign their keys in and out at the depot when they sign on and off work every day. But even then it will still be difficult to stop the wrong people getting hold of them.

 

[Neo9320]

It is a very very difficult situation.

The universality of keys is paramount, but as has been mentioned above, any new keys will soon become available.

Construction equipment such as mini diggers and larger machinery has universal keys, but also immobilisation equipment. Obviously not suitable for this application, but something does need to be done to stop acts of sabotage such as the one mentioned in the article.

 

[DanNCL]

Definitely far too easy to get hold of one, and it isn’t always done intentionally. I had a T key when I was on secondary school work experience with Northern, they gave me the key at the same time as I had my safety induction as it was required for what I was doing. Nobody asked for the key back at the end of my work experience, and had I not handed it back to them of my own accord afterwards, what’s to say I wouldn’t have still had it today.

 

[theageofthetra]

What concerns me more is that this idiot could have had a BR1B and a knife and gained entry to my cab.

 

[CC 72100]

Your point proven especially well with this individual.... I believe he's a child.
The 'bio' caps it all off.

I can't think of any logical explanation or response to this. I'm appalled.

Those who work in the industry don't need to read this, but for the record, NO member of staff would ever give a random member of the public 'permission' to use a key that they have 'obtained'.

This entire thread is rather worrying; I think many of us have concerns that railway keys are not as secure or controlled for access as they should be, but its when you read something like the Chiltern examples and then see people like this individual that make you realise that yep, the risk can become reality.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I am sure that any key would get out to some extent, but if the keys used were security keys with patent blanks, if one went missing there would be one out there, nowhere will cut them without proof you are entitled to it, because if caught you lose your supply of blanks and thus your business. So if you had a different key for each class and TOC, say, the problem would be minimised compared to now.

The sort I mean are Mul-T-Lock, Avocet ABS etc.

Thus anything would be an improvement on T keys.

Must admit I was astonished when I saw Northern have changed the cab door locks on 195s from a dedicated key to a T key.

Other things that may be useful in some cases are code or fob locks with frequently changing codes so even if one does get out it rapidly becomes useless.

 

[fgwrich]

The railway needs to solve this one itself by stopping using T-keys. They're everywhere, easy to make and there are lots of legitimate reasons for having one given that it's not only the railway that uses them. The railway needs to move to a more secure system, what makes sense may differ by application, e.g. cab locks may make sense to be electronic and opened by a fob, then there might be a key for locking doors out on that class of train in a box in the cab.

There is no practical way to prevent people getting T-keys, or indeed other keys that work some T-key locks (e.g. a house or car key can be used diagonally in a T-key lock without a pin - I've done this to open windows on a sweltering Class 166 with failed aircon to applause from other passengers and requests to open more, and I'd happily stand up in Court and defend having done so if the railway wanted to be awkward - the temperatures in summer on a 166 with the aircon out are a H&S issue).

The only thing a T-key should be able to be used for, if they're kept at all, is an application where you can't do any harm, e.g. opening a door panel fairing or other similar access panel but not being able to switch it on or do anything else nefarious.

This is, in part, the problem. I restore vintage buses (being the standard key of the era, a lot of Bristols and Leyland’s use them) as well as certain pieces of BR Rolling stock and as such I often have a T-Key in my bag. It’s not exactly the fault of the T-Key, but the fault of the industry for not moving on from said key.

 

[D6130]

Railway vehicles and equipment would be much more secure if British railway companies used the 'Berne' keys which are almost universal on continental railways. They are in some ways the 'reverse' of the standard British carriage key in that the lock consists of a circular hole containing a square stock and the key is a circular casting with a square-shaped hole in the centre corresponding to the stock in the lock. These are much more difficult to forge - in both senses of the word - and cannot be opened with a diagonally-held house or car key, plyers handle or file. An even more secure version which is now beginning to appear on more modern stock is the triangular version, which is even more difficult to copy and unlock.

 

[alxndr]

Definitely far too easy to get hold of one, and it isn’t always done intentionally. I had a T key when I was on secondary school work experience with Northern, they gave me the key at the same time as I had my safety induction as it was required for what I was doing. Nobody asked for the key back at the end of my work experience, and had I not handed it back to them of my own accord afterwards, what’s to say I wouldn’t have still had it today

Not being asked for keys back once they're no longer required is unfortunately quite common. I have a BR1B key that I needed for a few years, but haven't used it as a key for about 5 years. I know they are used on trains, but don't actually know where and certainly don't have the inclination to do anything nefarious with it.

I've also been able to identify someone's house in a street by recognising the padlock on his gate. He left the railway probably 20 years ago, but clearly still has at least one railway key.

 

[Ashley Hill]

The end of a T key with the hole seems little used. The square is quite universal but by having a pin there prevents the use of screwdrivers or car keys.


IET door keys are of a modern design and not easy to duplicate.

 

[Bletchleyite]

An even more secure version which is now beginning to appear on more modern stock is the triangular version, which is even more difficult to copy and unlock.

I have a triangular version of the UIC key in my kitchen drawer. It opens the meter cupboard. So maybe not that!

 

[busestrains]

Railway vehicles and equipment would be much more secure if British railway companies used the 'Berne' keys which are almost universal on continental railways. They are in some ways the 'reverse' of the standard British carriage key in that the lock consists of a circular hole containing a square stock and the key is a circular casting with a square-shaped hole in the centre corresponding to the stock in the lock. These are much more difficult to forge - in both senses of the word - and cannot be opened with a diagonally-held house or car key, plyers handle or file. An even more secure version which is now beginning to appear on more modern stock is the triangular version, which is even more difficult to copy and unlock.

Whilst the Berne key is indeed difficult to copy it is very widespread in multiple Mainland European countries. It is very commonly used these days. So this means that there is certainly going to be a lot of them in the hands of the wrong people. I imagine it is probably not hard to get hold of one. I have even seen Berne keys on Ebay in the past. So yes they are difficult to copy but the fact that they are very widespread means they have become fairly easy to obtain just like our keys that the UK uses.

Probably the most unsecured trains in the world are in Russia (and most other ex USSR countries) where the standard triangle gas metre key (the same exact key everyone has in the UK to open up their gas metre) is used everywhere. This key works on the vast majority of trains in Russia still. Even most modern trains built in the last few years use it. It can open up doors and panels and cabinets. Most signalling equipment and many other infrastructure uses it too. Even many trains use this key as the drivers key to start the train. It baffles me why Russia uses such a basic common key which anyone can obtain.

The end of a T key with the hole seems little used. The square is quite universal but by having a pin there prevents the use of screwdrivers or car keys.
View attachment 126629

IET door keys are of a modern design and not easy to duplicate.

The square end with the hole is very commonly used. It is used to open up Guards panels and activate Guards panels on many trains. On all Siemens Desiro and all Siemens Desiro City trains this end is used to both open the Guards panel and activate the Guards panel. Many of the BREL stock does too. On some stock this is even used to open up the cab doors and other parts of the train.

Yes the IETs all used a special more secure dedicated key to activate the Guards panel. Also the Electrostar and Turbostar and Meridian and Pendolino and Voyager trains all have their own special dedicated keys used to activate the Guards panel. So they are more secure than some other trains. I am sure these keys still fall in to the hands of the wrong people but they are much harder to obtain compared to other types.

 

[High Dyke]

Railway vehicles and equipment would be much more secure if British railway companies used the 'Berne' keys which are almost universal on continental railways. They are in some ways the 'reverse' of the standard British carriage key in that the lock consists of a circular hole containing a square stock and the key is a circular casting with a square-shaped hole in the centre corresponding to the stock in the lock. These are much more difficult to forge - in both senses of the word - and cannot be opened with a diagonally-held house or car key, plyers handle or file. An even more secure version which is now beginning to appear on more modern stock is the triangular version, which is even more difficult to copy and unlock.

Ah, the old 'Yorkshire Valve' key. Available at many plumbing outlets. I've got one from my time as a volunteer on the Nene Valley Railway.

 

[Russel]

It baffles me why Russia uses such a basic common key which anyone can obtain.

From what we've seen over the past 11 months, this really doesn't come as a surprise.

 

[adc82140]

How about some sort of card access instead, like a hotel room key system? If lost, or if a member of staff leaves, individual cards can be deactivated remotely. Would work for cab access, but probably not for smaller things like guards panels.

 

[Dunnyrail]

Sadly with Smart Card or any other “IT” related system, quite likely if Version Control not rigorously followed I can well see the likelihood of a Driver not being able to access the cab. Any one who has worked on the railway will know these foul ups can and will occur. Do we really need another way to stop trains running? Staff on the train would be able to help curtail the original issue, oh yes but we are supposed to be making all trains IMO. I think Chiltern is already thus?

 

[Ashley Hill]

The square end with the hole is very commonly used. It is used to open up Guards panels and activate Guards panels on many trains. On all Siemens Desiro and all Siemens Desiro City trains this end is used to both open the Guards panel and activate the Guards panel. Many of the BREL stock does too. On some stock this is even used to open up the cab doors and other parts of the train.

But not many of the keyholes especially on stock that I work have the centre pin in. Although most DKSs have a square plate fitted so only the square end fits.

 

[DanNCL]

Sadly with Smart Card or any other “IT” related system, quite likely if Version Control not rigorously followed I can well see the likelihood of a Driver not being able to access the cab. Any one who has worked on the railway will know these foul ups can and will occur. Do we really need another way to stop trains running? Staff on the train would be able to help curtail the original issue, oh yes but we are supposed to be making all trains IMO. I think Chiltern is already thus?

Chiltern has guards on the 68 hauled sets throughout, and on their DMU fleet north of Banbury.

 

[Spartacus]

I can well see the likelihood of a Driver not being able to access the cab. Any one who has worked on the railway will know these foul ups can and will occur.

I suspect most people who've used these regularly in hotels will be able to recount tales of having them not work and having to return to reception.

 

[Kilopylae]

Sadly with Smart Card or any other “IT” related system, quite likely if Version Control not rigorously followed I can well see the likelihood of a Driver not being able to access the cab. Any one who has worked on the railway will know these foul ups can and will occur. Do we really need another way to stop trains running? Staff on the train would be able to help curtail the original issue, oh yes but we are supposed to be making all trains IMO. I think Chiltern is already thus?

A 'dumb' NFC key fob should be able to work offline and wouldn't need to be updated regularly as they are difficult to produce copies of - but to be honest I can see your point that a physical key is the only option that can never fail.

 

[dosxuk]

The railway needs to solve this one itself by stopping using T-keys. They're everywhere, easy to make and there are lots of legitimate reasons for having one given that it's not only the railway that uses them.

This. Absolutely this.

I have multiple T-keys, used for accessing all sorts of panels, cupboards, hatches and equipment, none of which is railway related. The latches that T-keys engage in are widely available, cheap and easy to install. Even the T-keys with circular insert are becoming fairly popular - for the same reason the rail industry uses them - just wanting to stop the average person from fiddling.

I classify T-keys the same as fish keys - just there to prevent idle curiosity. They should never be used for anything that needs protecting - use a proper key where you need that!

 

[skyhigh]

Must admit I was astonished when I saw Northern have changed the cab door locks on 195s from a dedicated key to a T key.

The internal cab door locks on 195s have always been T key. They just changed from a silly design with a handle that didn't auto lock to a more standard design.

 

[Wolfie]

I suspect most people who've used these regularly in hotels will be able to recount tales of having them not work and having to return to reception.

Indeed. They also, as far as l am aware, rely on power being supplied.

 

[Taunton]

Indeed. They also, as far as l am aware, rely on power being supplied.

Actually the most common hotel room etc locks are not (contrary to much opinion) wired at all, but have batteries inside. It is extraordinary how often these batteries go flat. There is some stand-alone electronic logic in them that allows people to leave the hotel with the key card, but not be able to get back in the room once a next guest has entered for the first time with their own issued card.