Bus Driver Shortages

[markymark2000]

Similarly some operators offer a choice of rotas (e.g. separate early / late / split shift rotas) for drivers whose circumstances or preferences suit this, and some offer a choice of 'high earnings' rotas with regular longer duties, e.g. a 42 - 45 hour week rather than the normal 38 hour week, for those drivers who want more than standard hours but without working 6 days a week, and / or a rota with 4 long duties not 5 standard duties (although these can present difficulty getting cover in the event of holidays / sickness.)

Key issue on this one is that these rotas are only available once someone has worked somewhere for so long and if they exist, they are rarely advertised so anyone who would want such a duty, reasonably wouldn't apply. Larger operators tend to have a 'new starter' roster and to get off that, you have to wait for spaces to become available on the other rosters which is ok but how long will that take? It's not very g

There can be some resistance from existing staff / unions to new ways of doing things in the face of staff shortages, as any form of flexibility that may attract / retain more staff can conflict with the argument of improving pay and conditions to attract / retain more staff.

The bean counting style of management tends only to see the headline figures, but having a very high turnover of staff will generate costs in recruiting, training and kitting out new drivers. And while everyone's new to a job at some point, and recognising it's a big generalisation, but experienced drivers who are not worried about their personal finances, and who are not working ludicrous duties / rotas, are going to tend to have fewer expensive accidents and generate less customer service issues that will cost time and money to sort out.

If you offer staff the hours that they want and work with them, turnover goes down and I think that is what they forget.

And if a lot of journeys get dropped because of staff shortage, some passengers are going to give up on using the buses, so revenue is lost, and if it's frequent and unplanned, then sooner or later the traffic commissioners can impose financial penalties.

The issue is, the TC doesn't do that often and operators know that. It only seems to happen when it is an operator which the authorities don't like. They explore every other option before fining an operator, especially a large operator, they are bit too pally so unfortunately, while yes it is a threat, it's rarely executed and operators know that.

If you have a mix of fulltme and reduced hours staff, would it be possible (and operationally simpler) to allocate the fulltimers to one set of routes, and the reduced hours staff to another set of routes? Clearly it may not always be possible - e.g. if the reduced hours staff can only work mornings, but it may be simpler to try to piece together shifts in a discrete set of rotas.

I don't think it would make any difference operationally for the full timers and part timers to be on different rosters. Infact, would probably make it worse. If a part timer wants overtime or wants to go full time, they then can't take that work on unless it's on the 'part time' routes or they get route trained which is additional cost. You need a mix of them on all possible rosters. Preferably ones which go past the depot or to/from the bus station (wherever the sign on/off point is) since you won't want to be paying for them to travel if it can be avoided. On a 5 hours shift if that is what they want, an hour for travel and waiting for a bus is just lost time.


I know one depot which struggles like heck for people to do earlies and so they had to put it in with everything else to get them covered.

All I knew was that they demanded you weren't working another job whilst working for them....so what's the point of going part time with them then?

A good few years ago, drivers would work the school buses at one firm then if they wanted daytime work, would then go to the other company and essentially cover through the midday. Probably not the best for brand image though that you go elsewhere for school work, it's like one firm can't provide enough work.

For First or another big operator, the only issue that I can see is if they work for another company who is involved in Passenger Carrying Vehicles (PCV). Why would it matter if someone worked in Lidl for a few hours as well? Unless it comes back to the common belief of bus companies that 'If we need you, you must drop everything in your diary, leave your kid in town, they can take the shopping home, It doesn't matter, as long as you are in work within 5 minutes of us calling you'. The belief of live to work, not work to live.

 

[Titfield]

For First or another big operator, the only issue that I can see is if they work for another company who is involved in Passenger Carrying Vehicles (PCV). Why would it matter if someone worked in Lidl for a few hours as well? Unless it comes back to the common belief of bus companies that 'If we need you, you must drop everything in your diary, leave your kid in town, they can take the shopping home, It doesn't matter, as long as you are in work within 5 minutes of us calling you'. The belief of live to work, not work to live.

Ensuring that the WTD (Working Time Directive) and Drivers Hours Regulations are not breached. Vicarious liability applies.

 

[markymark2000]

Ensuring that the WTD (Working Time Directive) and Drivers Hours Regulations are not breached. Vicarious liability applies.

That's a fair one too I guess.

 

[Roger1973]

If you have a mix of fulltme and reduced hours staff, would it be possible (and operationally simpler) to allocate the fulltimers to one set of routes, and the reduced hours staff to another set of routes? Clearly it may not always be possible - e.g. if the reduced hours staff can only work mornings, but it may be simpler to try to piece together shifts in a discrete set of rotas.

It depends.

In London, there is a tendency for each rota only to do one route (partly that's how it's always been, partly it means you don't have to change everybody's rota pattern when one route has a schedule change, and also makes it practical for drivers on route X to transfer on TUPE rules to new operator if a route changes operators at re-tender. I'm aware of a few London routes that are or were mainly if not wholly done on a (for example) 3 day week rota (mostly relatively small scale / outer suburban routes.)

Where there are staff working reduced hours x 5 days, it depends on the route. Again, I'm aware of a London route (and similar arrangements outside London) where there's a heavy peak requirement on a particular route, and there's a full time rota and a part time rota for that route (or group of routes) with the part time drivers working (about) a 5 hour duty across either the morning or evening peak.

Last time I passed one of their depots they had a banner offering £1000 or whatever it was to sign up for them but you seem to have to stick around for a year or two to get it?

First Berkshire are currently offering a bonus of £ 3,000 plus paying off any outstanding training costs at old employer for new drivers (with existing PCV and CPC) at Slough (advert here) - I don't know what all the small print is. This did surprise me, as some operators in that patch have reduced services to / from Heathrow with the reduction in airport traffic, and a fair number of people working in jobs dependent on Heathrow have been laid off.

Key issue on this one is that these rotas are only available once someone has worked somewhere for so long and if they exist, they are rarely advertised so anyone who would want such a duty, reasonably wouldn't apply. Larger operators tend to have a 'new starter' roster and to get off that, you have to wait for spaces to become available on the other rosters which is ok but how long will that take?

Indeed - I'm not suggesting that any operator i've met is perfect, and not aware of any who offer it from day one - although some have more of this sort of rota than others. With some it tends only to be 'special case' situations (e.g. driver with caring responsibilities.)

I know one depot which struggles like heck for people to do earlies and so they had to put it in with everything else to get them covered.

That surprises me - one operator I know has a small 'early rota' and the waiting list to go on that is several years. As with most things in life, there's variety...

 

[mb88]

Last time I passed one of their depots they had a banner offering £1000 or whatever it was to sign up for them but you seem to have to stick around for a year or two to get it?

Yeah you get half the money after a year and the rest after 2 years.

 

[anthony263]

Agree with you 100% on this. Although there are tentative signs that the industry is coming round to the idea of part time drivers. First in my area (Central Scotland) have been offering part time positions for a few months now. As someone looking for part time work it did catch my eye, however I was looking for 3 full shifts per week and they were only offering 5 half shifts. But yes, they need to realise that adopting the attitude of ‘5 over 7 or nothing’ is not going to get them out of this shortage and they need to be as flexible as possible to attract more people into the industry.

Adventure travel offered me part time work around my family commitments I only work 1 shift every Saturday which is 10.5 hours long and it suits me fine. taffs we’ll depot now has a dedicated part time rota and it’s proving attractive with drivers coming from other firms.

 

[philthetube]

One easy way to do it is to offer job sharing, two drivers work one roster line, working out between themselves how to do it, one week one week off roe example.

 

[richw]

Why would it matter if someone worked in Lidl for a few hours as well?

Any work carried out as employment or self employed, even in your example of Lidl, counts as “other work” as far as hours are concerned, so yes it does matter. You can’t do a 9 hour shift in Aldi then an 8 hour shift on the buses for example.
A driver has a legal duty to make a bus operator aware of all other work carried out.

 

[markymark2000]

Any work carried out as employment or self employed, even in your example of Lidl, counts as “other work” as far as hours are concerned, so yes it does matter. You can’t do a 9 hour shift in Aldi then an 8 hour shift on the buses for example.
A driver has a legal duty to make a bus operator aware of all other work carried out.

Isn't 'other work' only a thing for EU hours? Or does it apply to Domestic as well?

 

[richw]

Isn't 'other work' only a thing for EU hours? Or does it apply to Domestic as well?

From memory the only elements with a second job that would apply to domestic workings is Daily rest and maximum daily spreadOver.

 

[Dai Corner]

Presumably these days there is software that operators use to allocate drivers to duties, ensuring compliance with the law and any local agreements. Do these cater for part timers, or those having second jobs? If not, I can see that as a barrier to employing such drivers.

 

[richw]

Presumably these days there is software that operators use to allocate drivers to duties, ensuring compliance with the law and any local agreements. Do these cater for part timers, or those having second jobs? If not, I can see that as a barrier to employing such drivers.

Duties are allocated through a software at major operators that make it impossible to schedule (by that program) duties that don’t comply. Pay roll is linked to the same software.

Smaller Independents probably still use pen and paper!

 

[Titfield]

Duties are allocated through a software at major operators that make it impossible to schedule (by that program) duties that don’t comply. Pay roll is linked to the same software.

Smaller Independents probably still use pen and paper!

Omnibus Systems is one of the major providers of software. It is a comprehensive suite that covers all aspects of bus operation.

https://omnibus.solutions/passenger-transport-solutions/

The full functionality is very sophisticated indeed.

 

[richw]

Omnibus Systems is one of the major providers of software. It is a comprehensive suite that covers all aspects of bus operation.

https://omnibus.solutions/passenger-transport-solutions/

The full functionality is very sophisticated indeed.

First and a couple others have moved to Optibus now

 

[RELL6L]

Go North East are reporting:
"Thanks to our ongoing recruitment efforts, we’re happy to confirm that services that have been running to temporary timetables over the last month or so will return to normal from Saturday 19 February."

Go North East services return to normal timetables from 19 February

Buses that have been running to temporary timetables on evenings and Saturdays will have full timetables reinstated from 19 February.

www.gonortheast.co.uk

These are not all as pre-Covid, just the 'new normal' I think. X1, 20, 56 every 15 minutes, X45/46 every 20 minutes as examples. I think some evening cuts in particular have been reversed though.

Are they an outlier or has anyone else returned to normal? There seems to be talk that First Bradford are cutting more services - West Yorkshire Metro reports: "First in Bradford are making temporary changes from Sunday 27 February to services 630, 633, 686, 687 and 688. Timetables will be published here once available." Of course these could be temporary improvements.....but I doubt it!

 

[Eyersey468]

I suspect services for a lot of operators will be reduced in future due to passenger numbers being around 80-85% of pre covid levels

 

[markymark2000]

Go North East are reporting:
"Thanks to our ongoing recruitment efforts, we’re happy to confirm that services that have been running to temporary timetables over the last month or so will return to normal from Saturday 19 February."

Go North East services return to normal timetables from 19 February

Buses that have been running to temporary timetables on evenings and Saturdays will have full timetables reinstated from 19 February.

www.gonortheast.co.uk

These are not all as pre-Covid, just the 'new normal' I think. X1, 20, 56 every 15 minutes, X45/46 every 20 minutes as examples. I think some evening cuts in particular have been reversed though.

Are they an outlier or has anyone else returned to normal? There seems to be talk that First Bradford are cutting more services - West Yorkshire Metro reports: "First in Bradford are making temporary changes from Sunday 27 February to services 630, 633, 686, 687 and 688. Timetables will be published here once available." Of course these could be temporary improvements.....but I doubt it!

Thames Valley Buses (part of Reading Buses, formerly Courtney) are restoring to a full timetable. They do admit that they aren't fully staffed but feel that it is the right thing to do.

Temporary timetables ending

Full service resumes on Sunday 20th February 2022 with temporary timetables coming to an end

www.thamesvalleybuses.com

We are at a place where we can bring back routes 108, 150, 157/158 & return service 194 back to full timetable from Sunday 20th February. Whilst things are still tight for qualified drivers, we feel that it's the right time to return things back to normal.

Cardiff Bus restored their normal timetables from Sunday just done (13th Feb)


Bluestar are increasing their frequencies from this Sunday (20th)

 

[Trnsprt4Sctlnd]

I suspect services for a lot of operators will be reduced in future due to passenger numbers being around 80-85% of pre covid levels

Many of them all ready are reduced simply due to not having enough drivers.

There are a few exception I’m guessing but even then if your gonna be asking driver to work 45-50hr weeks before it’s even classed as OT your not gonna repeat much within the industry.

 

[Eyersey468]

Many of them all ready are reduced simply due to not having enough drivers.

There are a few exception I’m guessing but even then if your gonna be asking driver to work 45-50hr weeks before it’s even classed as OT your not gonna repeat much within the industry.

Yeah we are still on reduced service due to driver shortage, though quite a few are coming through training school at the moment

 

[Mwanesh]

There are not many bus driver agencies. Its different from Hgv driving where you just get the keys and off you go. Route learning still needs to be done

 

[Trnsprt4Sctlnd]

Yeah we are still on reduced service due to driver shortage, though quite a few are coming through training school at the moment

So that they can work on a spare sheet covering 12hr shifts here and there with practically feeling as though they’ve no life between?

Best of Luck to them I say.

The last time I worked at Caledonia depot morale was on its knees, there is consensus that few are really under any care of there jobs there or just in the industry in general.

 

[Andyh82]

Go North East are reporting:
"Thanks to our ongoing recruitment efforts, we’re happy to confirm that services that have been running to temporary timetables over the last month or so will return to normal from Saturday 19 February."

Go North East services return to normal timetables from 19 February

Buses that have been running to temporary timetables on evenings and Saturdays will have full timetables reinstated from 19 February.

www.gonortheast.co.uk

These are not all as pre-Covid, just the 'new normal' I think. X1, 20, 56 every 15 minutes

These services were reduced pre Omicron, with temporary timetables introduced, that seemingly are now permanent

The Angel 21 is every 10 minutes as well, was every 7/8 before the autumn last year.

The reduction they are reverting on the 19th Feb, are the Saturday services which over the last few months has run on a Sunday frequency on some routes. So you had the X1 which was traditionally either every 10/12 mins, but now every 15 mins, only running every 30 mins on Saturdays which was pretty chaotic when Newcastle were at home.

 

[PaulMc7]

In Glasgow, bus driver shortages are still an issue in all of the operators in the area and as a result we are seeing cuts to services across the network.

How are the driver shortages in your area? Does anyone think we can get closer to bridging the gap between how many drivers we have in the industry and how many we need? From my experience, I've seen plenty of training buses on my travels so we are seeing some new people coming into different companies. However, there are still a lot of cancellations around resulting in more cuts.

Another thing I've noticed is that smaller depots especially in the bigger companies seem to be doing better than the bigger depots. What do bigger depots need to change in order to improve?

 

[ChrisC]

There’s no improvement here in Nottinghamshire. Both Stagecoach East Midlands and Trent Barton issue lists each day of cancelled buses due to driver shortages. These lists are quite extensive and are not getting any shorter. I find it very inconvenient living on a route which is only hourly as there are still regularly a couple of cancellations each day. At least Stagecoach in Mansfield do usually publish the list the day before whereas Trent Barton do not publish their list of cancellations until on the actual day. The cancellations are only published on Twitter so I do wonder just how many people don’t actually know about them.

 

[Vespa]

Is it low wages, terms & conditions or work culture that's putting them off applying or leave after a few weeks ?

 

[Ken H]

Is it low wages, terms & conditions or work culture that's putting them off applying or leave after a few weeks ?

You can get the same money working 9-5 in a warehouse where there are no grumpy passengers. Or convert your bus licence to HGV.

 

[Vespa]

You can get the same money working 9-5 in a warehouse where there are no grumpy passengers. Or convert your bus licence to HGV.

Interesting, I have heard of HGV drivers going to warehouses for similar reasons which is why we have shortages of drivers, I didn't know you can convert your PCV licence to HGV, does it work the other way round ?

Guess the old adage is true "Pay peanuts, get monkeys" they need to offer a salary enough to make it worthwhile, since Brexit the cheaper workers have gone home exposing the vulnerability of the labour market and the employers can no longer get away without paying the market rate.

 

[Ken H]

Interesting, I have heard of HGV drivers going to warehouses for similar reasons which is why we have shortages of drivers, I didn't know you can convert your PCV licence to HGV, does it work the other way round ?

Guess the old adage is true "Pay peanuts, get monkeys" they need to offer a salary enough to make it worthwhile, since Brexit the cheaper workers have gone home exposing the vulnerability of the labour market and the employers can no longer get away without paying the market rate.

Not brexit. There is a driver shortage across Europe, both HGV and PCV. Why come to UK with our high taxes (since IR35 came in) and expensive housing when they can work near home?

 

[Robertj21a]

Bus driver shortages are notable in those operations that still have low wages, many operators need to increase their hourly rates. That, combined with unsocial hours and shift arrangements, mean that many will look elsewhere. Having to deal with passengers and/or a difficult fares structure hardly helps retention!

 

[Vespa]

Not brexit. There is a driver shortage across Europe, both HGV and PCV. Why come to UK with our high taxes (since IR35 came in) and expensive housing when they can work near home?

There'is that; local cost of living round Europe do vary and Covid has caused a major shift in work attitude and expectations.

The employers would simply have to offer an attractive salary and perks to make it worthwhile.