Avanti GSW diverts March 2023

[70014IronDuke]

Here's the working timetable for 1S86 for the 14/5/79 to 11/5/80 timetable.
Four intermediate stops (two more than in 1974).
Four minutes of additional recovery time.

Yes, I was quite surprised to see the 1974 WTT only included Dumfries and Kilmarnock stops - quite an operating diversion for the traffic to just those two stations. Four stops makes more commercial sense (I'd think), certainly for just 10 mins extra running time. Was the up service similar by then?

What's more significant is how the BR planners worked to try to keep this service viable and justifiable back in those days - can't see a modern TOC thinking twice about binning such a one-off odd ball today, citing crew route-learning costs or blah blah some such.

For a spell after electrification the GSW Euston trains were 50 hauled. A few 50s were retained on WCML for trips such as this plus Barrow/Blackpool/Manchester/Liverpool runs from Preston as I don't think there were enough 47/4s for the ETH stock trains. 40s could substitute on the non air con stock like mk2c in summer.

The 50s eventually moved on once sufficient 47/4s were available, perhaps released by HSTs on the Western region.

Interesting to know that some Cl 50s were retained for a time on the LM. I'd forgotten that. But weren't they all on the Western by 1975? The HSTs only started on the Western in 76, didn't they?

 

[jfollows]

1M25 in 1979/80 was 07:05 from Glasgow Central, then

• Kilmarnock 07:39/07:41
• Kirkconnel 08:14/08:15
• Dumfries 08:44/08:46
• [4] allowance
• Annan 09:07/09:08
• Carlisle 09:29/09:40

EDIT WTT extract attached.

 

[507020]

Will these services be the first Voyagers on the G&SWR since 2016 and will 1S36 definitely have a passenger call at Kilmarnock?

 

[70014IronDuke]

1M25 in 1979/80 was 07:05 from Glasgow Central, then

• Kilmarnock 07:39/07:41
• Kirkconnel 08:14/08:15
• Dumfries 08:44/08:46
• [4] allowance
• Annan 09:07/09:08
• Carlisle 09:29/09:40

EDIT WTT extract attached.

Very interesting. Thank you. I expect it left Glasgow rather empty, can't imagine too many people needing to use it to any of the four stops, so they were relying on it picking up passengers heading south. Surprised they inserted the 4 mins recovery time before Annan, rather than before Gretna Jcn.

By this time, of course, 45/1s were available too, though I doubt any were allocated to the Scottish sheds?

Was there, I wonder, many (any?) complaints when the G&SW lost its Inter-City services, which I assume consisted only of this, the Thames-Clyde and the Glasgow-Leeds trains.

 

[hexagon789]

Very interesting. Thank you. I expect it left Glasgow rather empty, can't imagine too many people needing to use it to any of the four stops, so they were relying on it picking up passengers heading south. Surprised they inserted the 4 mins recovery time before Annan, rather than before Gretna Jcn.

By this time, of course, 45/1s were available too, though I doubt any were allocated to the Scottish sheds?

Was there, I wonder, many (any?) complaints when the G&SW lost its Inter-City services, which I assume consisted only of this, the Thames-Clyde and the Glasgow-Leeds trains.

I imagine there would have been some traffic for Glasgow to Kilmarnock and Dumfries, given the extremely limited service even to Kilmarnock.

The Thames-Clyde had already gone and the afternoon to Leeds truncated to Nottingham.

 

[route101]

Will these services be the first Voyagers on the G&SWR since 2016 and will 1S36 definitely have a passenger call at Kilmarnock?

I am sure Voyagers have used the line in the last year on passenger services.

 

[jfollows]

Will these services be the first Voyagers on the G&SWR since 2016 and will 1S36 definitely have a passenger call at Kilmarnock?

Voyagers have been in service quite frequently on the G&SW, I think only a few months ago (eg September 2022, #25 ) couple of weeks ago there were some services, relatively short-notice implementations as a result of problems with the normal route. I don't think it was used during the disruption in the first week of January, though.

 

[AJP62]

Very interesting. Thank you. I expect it left Glasgow rather empty, can't imagine too many people needing to use it to any of the four stops, so they were relying on it picking up passengers heading south. Surprised they inserted the 4 mins recovery time before Annan, rather than before Gretna Jcn.

By this time, of course, 45/1s were available too, though I doubt any were allocated to the Scottish sheds?

Was there, I wonder, many (any?) complaints when the G&SW lost its Inter-City services, which I assume consisted only of this, the Thames-Clyde and the Glasgow-Leeds trains.

Back then the line was single from Annan to Gretna. When I used the 8.40 from Carlisle to Glasgow via the GSW regularly the Euston train was usually waiting at Annan to gain the single line so probably accounts for the recovery time being before Annan.

The Thames Clyde diverted to the Caledonian route at electrification or soon after.

There was the daytime Stranraer for a spell though.