Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
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End of the line for return rail tickets
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That's all well and good - but I feel it is dangerous to even support the structure until we know the details.
It would be just as legitimate to ask what evidence there is that the government won't use this as an opportunity to hike up fares, having been forced to implement a fares increase of less than RPI this year.
ohgoditsjames
Member
You genuinely believe this Government doesn't have an ulterior motive?
I hope I'm wrong, but I sincerely doubt they have our best interests in mind.
miklcct
On Moderation
So maybe we should stop speculating here and wait until the actual fares come out.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I don't think every single thing they do has one, no.
Who forced them to implement a fares increase of less than RPI? There was practically a no-win position for the government on train fares this year.
Politics. The optics of an 11% increase would have been awful and would only have been used against the government in the pay dispute.
DynamicSpirit
Established Member
No we don't. That's just an assumption you've made up.
trainophile
Established Member
Having read the whole discussion, I'm surprised nobody has queried whether the continuation of Advance tickets is a given, or might they go in the fullness of time too?
That is because no one would expect them to go anywhere. They are already priced on a single leg basis, and allow fares to be set in such a way to maximise yields. Indeed, the fears of some people is that there is effectively an increase in the use of advance fares.
heathrowrail
Member
Why was a return ticket invented? If it wasn't necessary nobody would have created it in the first place would they!
trainophile
Established Member
Yes but they are available at the discretion of the operator/s, who could pull the plug at any time, especially if they start to impact on full price ticket revenue too greatly.
Of course, but most operators recognise that an advance priced at 50 pence less than the cheapest walk on ticket will bring in more revenue for them on multi-operator routes.
Mcr Warrior
Veteran Member
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Presumably to get workmen / businessmen / excursionists back home towards the end of the day?
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
In the days when tickets were mostly purchased from booking offices, return tickets reduced the staffing needed by halving the number of transactions.
This is no longer such an era.
I would be astonished if I spend less in real terms on travel after this is implemented. I’m fully expecting to be spending 20% more in real terms.
The government could use this as an opportunity to win back confidence and grow rail use… but they won’t. They have one aim, bring the cost down.
Having bought a few single rail tickets myself recently, I can assure you it’s not something I want to or can afford to do do regularly, and I rely on rail 100%.
AlterEgo
Veteran Member
"Return tickets" have been phased out in many countries in Europe because they actually aren't necessary any more. You can still go out and return, just the legs are priced singly - the market has changed and so has customer behaviour. It's Britain which is behind here - a long way. Single leg pricing opens up smartcard ticketing structures which couldn't exist before (something which obviously wasn't around when the ludicrous "return just £1 more expensive than two singles" policy crept in by accident on BR!).
Railways might be glacial with change but they do actually have to change. Saying "well it was invented wasn't it?" isn't a way of justifying something's continued use. Are you still using a typewriter? Cheque guarantee cards? Papyrus?
Oh they’ll go
They are simplifying, therefore reducing the number of different fares available, which other way could it go?
Is that really the reason they were invented or are you speculating?
The other way it could go is Advances only on certain trains, with no walk up option.Oh they’ll go
They are simplifying, therefore reducing the number of different fares available, which other way could it go?
Hopefully that is not the case either.
I have to take issue with the idea that if it wasn’t necessary then no one would have created it… couple of examples, Love Island (or more accurately, all of ITVs vacuous output), but back on a railway theme , See It Say It Sorted (amongst dozens of other tedious unnecessary babble)
Governments seek to win votes, make money, save money or distribute money.
Removing singles wont win votes, but it may do all the other three.
But if its set up now, and comes live after the GE, it wont be their votes that its not winning.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Oh they’ll go
They are simplifying, therefore reducing the number of different fares available, which other way could it go?
Advances will likely go on short distance local services where they really don't fit well anyway, to be replaced by peak and off peak singles (maybe three levels) and capping via contactless, and equivalent tickets sold on "bog roll" from TVMs for those who can't use contactless for whatever reason, e.g. buying one for your kid.
There's no prospect whatsoever that they would cease on long distance services.
It is one reason, yes.
I have to take issue with the idea that if it wasn’t necessary then no one would have created it… couple of examples, Love Island (or more accurately, all of ITVs vacuous output), but back on a railway theme , See It Say It Sorted (amongst dozens of other tedious unnecessary babble)
It's also possible that the reasons for something being created were valid at the time but no longer apply.
As one example, gas lighting was created for a reason (so the streets weren't dark and a haven for crime and accidents), but is no longer necessary because electric lighting has superceded it.
Advance tickets won't be going anywhere. Some train companies would like flexible fares abolished and to have only Advance fares.
I can see some ridiculous, short distance Advance fares in urban areas going but that is all.
I can see some ridiculous, short distance Advance fares in urban areas going but that is all.
Very good point about buying tickets for children. They probably don’t have debit cards and I think it’s unreasonable to expect all of them to have smartphones at 11 when they may have to go to secondary school via train. I suspect it will take a very long time before smartcards are rolled out across the country so “bog roll” tickets as you call them will survive for quite a long time to come.
You are quite right about gas lighting, although that has a very different meaning these days
Advance fares will continue to be available.
What is at risk is the full range of walk up options we have now; LNER abolished their Off Peak fares (for the flows where single leg pricing was introduced) and that is deemed a "success" as it pushed people towards Advance fares. Day Returns are unlikely to be halved in many cases.
What is at risk is the full range of walk up options we have now; LNER abolished their Off Peak fares (for the flows where single leg pricing was introduced) and that is deemed a "success" as it pushed people towards Advance fares. Day Returns are unlikely to be halved in many cases.
Debit cards are available from age 6. Another decision for parents/guardians.
Well if I had a 6 year old they wouldn’t be having one. That’s just rediculous. I’d say 14 is a reasonable age when they start to have enough pocket money to make decisions for themselves and are independent enough to go out by themselves to places where they can spend their money.
The question of kids aged just under 14 and debit cards was discussed in the following thread last year:
All railway ticket offices in England to close?
Easiest way to do Rovers would be a dedicated website issuing them as e-tickets or by post and phone for the few that can't do e-tickets. They're a niche product. The reason Avanti are reducing the number of TVMs is because hardly anyone is using them, by the way! Nothing appalling about...
www.railforums.co.uk
Why are you using the word may? What is stopping the word will being used?
This has almost happened to me and caused delays as I remember last minute I don't have a ticket back and need to buy one.
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When I was in France last year, I used the TER system in and around Lille quite a lot.
The ticket machines there ask you to select a single or return, and if you select return will sell you a ticket for twice the price of a single.
I suspect that is what will happen in the UK, for those who do use a ticket office or machine.
Even if you buy a ticket through a website or app, if you are making a return journey, you want to buy the ticket in one transaction rather than two.
The ticket machines there ask you to select a single or return, and if you select return will sell you a ticket for twice the price of a single.
I suspect that is what will happen in the UK, for those who do use a ticket office or machine.
Even if you buy a ticket through a website or app, if you are making a return journey, you want to buy the ticket in one transaction rather than two.
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