Merseyrail Class 777 introduction updates

[Bletchleyite]

I do wonder if the comments about ride quality of 777s are being made by people who are comparing to different stock running on a different line. The best comparison would be between two different types on exactly the same line. Not sure that is possible unless restricting the comparison of 777s to 507s/508s.

Merseyrail track has historically been a bit poor. 507s would hit the stops at every rail joint in the Kirkdale tunnels, for example.

 

[py_megapixel]

The ride quality on the 195's is shocking, they're rough when going over points, I'd hate to be on one that goes along jointed track.

Have you ever been on a Pacer?

And in any case, the ride quality is only one element of the passenger experience. In almost every other way, they are a vast improvement on what came before, and the same goes for the 777s.

 

[Wezz]

Have you ever been on a Pacer?

And in any case, the ride quality is only one element of the passenger experience. In almost every other way, they are a vast improvement on what came before, and the same goes for the 777s.

Yes I have, the 195's aren't much better in terms of ride quality

 

[Skie]

Pacers and 195s are a different type of poor ride. 195s are fine until you hit some points or harsh lateral bits and they show their teeth. Pacers just transmitted every bump or jolt through the entire chassis and if the track had undulations the entire train would develop a rhythmic motion.

 

[315801]

I have never rode on a 195 since their introduction, however, I have rode on a few 142s over the yars and I quite agree that they were not the best unit to travel on especially if you also get the smell of diesel exhaust inside the unit when the engines are started upready to run a service even when there are no windows open.

I once rode on 142001 from lime street to wavertree technology park station and the ride was not the best, it bounced like a horse trying to throw its rider off and the exhaust smell was seriously overpowering that I couldn't wait to get off it.

The other thing with the 142s was that if you didn't have back trouble when you got on, you would by the time you got off it, I speak from personal experience of that although I think the topic of ride quality would be something for a seperate thread.

 

[Wezz]

Anyway, back to the 777's... Whilst they are a bit firmer than the 507/508's it won't matter as a lot of the jointed track has now been replaced, I think there's only the tiny bit in Kirkdale Tunnels and some over on the Wirral now that Brunswicks jointed track has been replaced.

 

[cjbirkett]

Anyway, back to the 777's... Whilst they are a bit firmer than the 507/508's it won't matter as a lot of the jointed track has now been replaced, I think there's only the tiny bit in Kirkdale Tunnels and some over on the Wirral now that Brunswicks jointed track has been replaced.

Formby-Hightown-Hall Road southbound is still full of jointed track loveliness. Also the approach to Sandhills from the south has a bit.

Not that I'm obsessed at all (Was horrified to find the Brunswick bit had gone on my last trip!)

 

[Skie]

Anyway, back to the 777's... Whilst they are a bit firmer than the 507/508's it won't matter as a lot of the jointed track has now been replaced, I think there's only the tiny bit in Kirkdale Tunnels and some over on the Wirral now that Brunswicks jointed track has been replaced.

It’s still in lots of places. Renewals will get rid of it over the next while though, plenty of track due to be ripped up and replaced.

 

[Wezz]

Formby-Hightown-Hall Road southbound is still full of jointed track loveliness. Also the approach to Sandhills from the south has a bit.

Not that I'm obsessed at all (Was horrified to find the Brunswick bit had gone on my last trip!)

I thought the jointed track on the southport line had been renewed, whoopsies

 

[Bertie the bus]

I do wonder if the comments about ride quality of 777s are being made by people who are comparing to different stock running on a different line. The best comparison would be between two different types on exactly the same line. Not sure that is possible unless restricting the comparison of 777s to 507s/508s.

Which is what I did. I deliberately took a 777 from Liverpool Central - Kirkby and then a PEP from Liverpool Central - Kirkby. The ride quality of the 777 is inferior. In my opinion not inferior enough to alarm or put people off travelling on them but inferior nonetheless. As for limiting the comparison to 777s and 507/508s, why wouldn't people do that? The 777s are replacing the 507/508s so they are the perfect trains to compare them to. Comparing them to a Pendolino would be pretty pointless.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Which is what I did. I deliberately took a 777 from Liverpool Central - Kirkby and then a PEP from Liverpool Central - Kirkby. The ride quality of the 777 is inferior. In my opinion not inferior enough to alarm or put people off travelling on them but inferior nonetheless. As for limiting the comparison to 777s and 507/508s, why wouldn't people do that? The 777s are replacing the 507/508s so they are the perfect trains to compare them to. Comparing them to a Pendolino would be pretty pointless.

No point comparing the ride quality of a 777 to a Pacer or 195 either.

 

[Christmas]

Was the situation with the opaque cab doors sorted out?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Was the situation with the opaque cab doors sorted out?

They appear to have had opaque vinyls stuck on.

 

[irish_rail]

They appear to have had opaque vinyls stuck on.

Thank goodness for that!

 

[Energy]

Thank goodness for that!

They would go to opaque when a driver put the master key in anyway iirc. Hopefully it is sorted to people can see out the rear cab.

 

[Bletchleyite]

They would go to opaque when a driver put the master key in anyway iirc. Hopefully it is sorted to people can see out the rear cab.

That would be nice if they could.

The problem I think was that they went clear again when the unit crossed a neutral section.

 

[M28361M]

Merseyrail have tweeted, and it has also been reported on Mersey Railways FB group, that the 777 will now stay on its Mon-Sat diagram until end of service, instead of going back to the depot after working the 1935 Liverpool Central-Kirkby.

I think this means it will additionally work 2013, 2113, 2213, 2313 from Kirkby and the 2035, 2135, 2235 and 2335 from Liverpool Central.

 

[Wezz]

Merseyrail have tweeted, and it has also been reported on Mersey Railways FB group, that the 777 will now stay on its Mon-Sat diagram until end of service, instead of going back to the depot after working the 1935 Liverpool Central-Kirkby.

I think this means it will additionally work 2013, 2113, 2213, 2313 from Kirkby and the 2035, 2135, 2235 and 2335 from Liverpool Central.

Now I've just gotta work out the stations in-between for work purposes

 

[Skie]

They would go to opaque when a driver put the master key in anyway iirc. Hopefully it is sorted to people can see out the rear cab.

Sadly not, they leaked too much light so they’ve been covered with a film.

Wonder if a compromise could be putting the rear forward facing camera onto the CCTV feed that the passengers get a glimpse of? @DavidPowell

 

[Wezz]

Sadly not, they leaked too much light so they’ve been covered with a film.

Wonder if a compromise could be putting the rear forward facing camera onto the CCTV feed that the passengers get a glimpse of? @DavidPowell

I'd imagine they won't want to do that in case there's a fatality between stations, they won't want passengers seeing the aftermath

 

[Bletchleyite]

If they're permanently gone it'd be nice if they could follow the Newcastle Metro idea and put vinyls of famous Liverpool scenery or local art on them. It is a bit boring just having a grey cab end, and it'll deter vandalism as it does in toilets.

I'd imagine they won't want to do that in case there's a fatality between stations, they won't want passengers seeing the aftermath

I suppose if people want to see a cab ride of the network there's videos of it all on YouTube, someone has uploaded all the route learning videos.

 

[Wezz]

If they're permanently gone it'd be nice if they could follow the Newcastle Metro idea and put vinyls of famous Liverpool scenery or local art on them. It is a bit boring just having a grey cab end, and it'll deter vandalism as it does in toilets.



I suppose if people want to see a cab ride of the network there's videos of it all on YouTube, someone has uploaded all the route learning videos.

I did try to get Don Coffey permission to make informative videos of the network like he has done with numerous other routes across the UK, but no luck so far unfortunately.

 

[MattRat]

Which is what I did. I deliberately took a 777 from Liverpool Central - Kirkby and then a PEP from Liverpool Central - Kirkby. The ride quality of the 777 is inferior. In my opinion not inferior enough to alarm or put people off travelling on them but inferior nonetheless. As for limiting the comparison to 777s and 507/508s, why wouldn't people do that? The 777s are replacing the 507/508s so they are the perfect trains to compare them to. Comparing them to a Pendolino would be pretty pointless.

Sounds a bit like personal opinion then. You also have to remember placebo effects exists, so you, a lover of the old class, will prefer them, and passengers who are glad of a shiny new train, will prefer those.

Of course one thing that is guaranteed and not just an opinion, is how the two classes act in the tunnels, with the 777s being far superior.

 

[Elecman]

That would be nice if they could.

The problem I think was that they went clear again when the unit crossed a neutral section.

You don’t have neutral sections on DC lines !!

 

[Bletchleyite]

You don’t have neutral sections on DC lines !!

Whatever they are called. Section gaps is it?

 

[Vespa]

Whatever they are called. Section gaps is it?

Yes it's section gaps.

So you can maintain constant voltage in each section

 

[py_megapixel]

What's wrong with having passengers looking out of the front anyway? They've done it on the Tyne and Wear Metro since opening, not to mention tramways and automated metros the world over.

 

[Peter Sarf]

What's wrong with having passengers looking out of the front anyway? They've done it on the Tyne and Wear Metro since opening, not to mention tramways and automated metros the world over.

Driver privacy I guess ?.

 

[Bertie the bus]

Sounds a bit like personal opinion then. You also have to remember placebo effects exists, so you, a lover of the old class, will prefer them, and passengers who are glad of a shiny new train, will prefer those.

Of course one thing that is guaranteed and not just an opinion, is how the two classes act in the tunnels, with the 777s being far superior.

Thanks for the bizarre amateur lecture on psychology but every point you make is totally and utterly wrong.

An inferior ride isn't personal opinion and I am not "a lover" of the old class, in fact in the main I usually prefer new trains to old. A really very poor attempt to appear superior by someone who gets distracted by shiny things.

History seems to be repeating itself a bit. When the 195s/331s were first introduced I mentioned on another forum the quality of the ride and I was told I was wrong then as well and the ride was excellent but some units are slightly worse and I must have either imagined it or experienced a rogue unit.

 

[Parjon]

As a ride is experienced by an individual, whether it is viewed as inferior or not can only be a personal opinion.

The questions then being : do most/many people share the view? And if so are they bothered?