Merseyrail Class 777 introduction updates

[Vespa]

I know this is irrelevant to 777s, but on 507s and 508s, there is sound that it like a diesel engine at low speeds? Did any one else notice?

Probably the air compressor.

 

[Merseyrailfan]

Probably the air compressor.

Also why can’t Merseyrail trains go over 60 mph?

 

[Vespa]

Also why can’t Merseyrail trains go over 60 mph?

Signalling block and service frequency, there's no point going faster as you need to slow down for each station, it cost a lot of energy and wear on the motors, the electric shoe would get a hammering swapping conductor rails, maintaining a constant speed is more important as it's a commuter line not intercity.

EMU highest speed record is 109mph in a test scenario.

 

[Grumpy Git]

They are a million times quieter in the tunnels. Not even in the same galaxy as the 507/508 for noise.

 

[D821]

I know this is irrelevant to 777s, but on 507s and 508s, there is sound that it like a diesel engine at low speeds? Did any one else notice?

The air compressor?

 

[Merseyrailfan]

Signalling block and service frequency, there's no point going faster as you need to slow down for each station, it cost a lot of energy and wear on the motors, the electric shoe would get a hammering swapping conductor rails, maintaining a constant speed is more important as it's a commuter line not intercity.

EMU highest speed record is 109mph in a test scenario.

What the point of 777s going to 75 mph?

 

[Urban-Savage]

Morning
Is the new train running today?
Any ideas on times from Liverpool Central?
Cheers

 

[MattRat]

What the point of 777s going to 75 mph?

They won't. That's the max speed they can achieve. The fastest they can actually go is 70 on the Wirral line (Northern line is max 60). This means the parts are under less stress as they aren't near their maximum.

 

[LPJOHN]

Yes it is running “777 049”
See post 3812 for times.

 

[karlbbb]

What the point of 777s going to 75 mph?

That's just their max speed - the 507/508 max speed is 75mph too, I believe. There aren't too many places on the Merseyrail network that have a line speed above 60mph anyway, so the 777s will be doing the same speeds as the 507/508s, they'll just get there faster.

 

[Peter Sarf]

This just goes to show how subjective/unreliable (delete as appropriate) individual assessments of things like ride quality are.

I've yet to sample the 777s but I'm not the harshest of critics for such things. I'll be having a trip over to try them out in the next few weeks, maybe once a few more are in use each day. If they ride anything at all like Pacers (or trams) I'll be consuming my headwear on the train home to Yorkshire!

I do wonder if the comments about ride quality of 777s are being made by people who are comparing to different stock running on a different line. The best comparison would be between two different types on exactly the same line. Not sure that is possible unless restricting the comparison of 777s to 507s/508s.

 

[jamesst]

Also why can’t Merseyrail trains go over 60 mph?

They do every time they go to Chester...

 

[pokemonsuper9]

They do every time they go to Chester...

Where? https://www.openrailwaymap.org/ doesn't show any speed limits above 60 on Merseyrail as far as I can tell.

 

[mcnw35282]

Took my first ride on the new train today. 1st impressions…? Don’t see what all the fuss was about. Seats are awful…would’ve been comfier sitting on a washing line. On the plus side they are rapid and the windows are huge. Other than that, really don’t see what the big hoo har was for tbh.

Where? https://www.openrailwaymap.org/ doesn't show any speed limits above 60 on Merseyrail as far as I can tell.

Between Hooton and Capenhurst. Think the limit is 70, whereas on the rest of the network it’s 60.

 

[jonnyfan]

Yes there's around a 6 mile section of 70mph line speed between approximately Hooton and Bache

 

[Liverpool 507]

Took my first ride on the new train today. 1st impressions…? Don’t see what all the fuss was about. Seats are awful…would’ve been comfier sitting on a washing line. On the plus side they are rapid and the windows are huge. Other than that, really don’t see what the big hoo har was for tbh.


Between Hooton and Capenhurst. Think the limit is 70, whereas on the rest of the network it’s 60.

The seats don’t bother me. They’re commuter trains, nobody will be doing two hours on them in comparison to some of Northern’s services. They will soften over time

 

[Parjon]

What the point of 777s going to 75 mph?

Might be needed for some extensions.

 

[KevinTurvey]

They are very much brighter internally than the old trains. Ride quality is quite stiff and seats are hard, but not uncomfortable. For some reason they seem to give me the feel and ride similar to a mk4 when they were new.
At times you would not think you were on an EMU, they really are very quiet, even when accelerating.

What I did notice waiting in Liverpool Central were some of the doors were opened and closed constantly, perhaps they ought to set doors to remain open all the time here to save on maintenance, its usually always a fairly comfortable temperature here so it wouldn't impact on the air conditioning.

 

[stuart100100]

They are very much brighter internally than the old trains. Ride quality is quite stiff and seats are hard, but not uncomfortable. For some reason they seem to give me the feel and ride similar to a mk4 when they were new.
At times you would not think you were on an EMU, they really are very quiet, even when accelerating.

What I did notice waiting in Liverpool Central were some of the doors were opened and closed constantly, perhaps they ought to set doors to remain open all the time here to save on maintenance, its usually always a fairly comfortable temperature here so it wouldn't impact on the air conditioning.

My first ride on one today and I noticed the constant closing doors were panicking people coming down the escalator at Central, making them rush thinking the train was about to leave.

Also quite a few stumbled on the slopes inside but not much you can do about that until people get used to them over time

 

[61653 HTAFC]

My first ride on one today and I noticed the constant closing doors were panicking people coming down the escalator at Central, making them rush thinking the train was about to leave.

Also quite a few stumbled on the slopes inside but not much you can do about that until people get used to them over time

At Central it probably would be worth keeping doors open until ready to depart, both to stop people running on the escalators (I speak as someone who once went backside-over-bosom on one of those escalators, and I wasn't even rushing!) and because being an underground station it probably isn't going to overwhelm the air-conditioning.

 

[Parjon]

They definitely need to sort this out. All doors should open and close automatically at underground stations, as well as final stops.

 

[markymark2000]

They definitely need to sort this out. All doors should open and close automatically at underground stations, as well as final stops.

Or programmable for it to happen at certain stations at certain times. I am thinking like Aintree on race days, even on through Ormskirk services. This ordinarily wouldn't fit your criteria but is a situation where this is needed.

 

[Sorcerer]

Admittedly I never knew about the doors needing to be opened manually by button press, but why exactly was automatic opening not possible? Did Stadler simply not incorporate it into the fleet or is there a technical reason? In either case the need to press a button will without a doubt have some passengers waiting for a bit before they are able to get off the train not realising why at first.

 

[M28361M]

My understanding is there is an ”all doors open” mode but it will not be used except possibly for special events where it is expected a large number of people will be boarding/alighting at a station.

 

[Killingworth]

Having used Merseyrail this week on a rare visit to Merseyside I was confused to find no buttons to open and close doors. Ran down the stairs to miss my first train by a second at Parkway as the doors closed, but was probably saved by the same margin when repeating the performance at Hightown on my way back. (Apparently grey hair and wrinkles meant nobody asked to see my ticket, which I had. The slightly older chap sat opposite me was amazed to hear that over in Yorkshire pensioners have to pay to travel on trains, but this is a digression.) I did see a 777 but failed to travel on one. I can confirm that the old stock can be very noisy underground.

 

[Parjon]

My understanding is there is an ”all doors open” mode but it will not be used except possibly for special events where it is expected a large number of people will be boarding/alighting at a station.

They need to learn how to use the new trains properly then!!

 

[Skie]

Admittedly I never knew about the doors needing to be opened manually by button press, but why exactly was automatic opening not possible?

It is. In the underground sections they should be opening automatically. The issue is they time out and close again when they really don’t need to.

 

[Wezz]

Is it really?

The 195s aren't perfect, not by a long shot. It's daft, for example, that they were ordered in 2016 and still weren't equipped for level boarding. But it's either a worn-out, uncomfortable train from the 1980s which screeches and groans its way into the station (not to mention the deafening racket when it starts off again), or a modern 195, which - despite its arguable flaws - still has more space, nicer lighting, tables, high-backed seats and air-conditioning (and much better soundproofing!).

Which is closer to presenting the average passenger the image we want them to have of rail travel in 2023?



The Stadler press release about these (here) is in German, but it lists this as a feature:

which translates (roughly) to "Remote vehicle diagnostics to support maintenance specific to the conditions".

This suggests there may be some sort of Wi-Fi system for diagnostic purposes. If that is the case, it is probably what was being referred to.

The ride quality on the 195's is shocking, they're rough when going over points, I'd hate to be on one that goes along jointed track.

 

[Statto]

What the point of 777s going to 75 mph?

Yeah, theirs not many sections on Merseyrail were trains in passenger service can get to full speed before having to slow down for the next station

 

[Skie]

Yeah, theirs not many sections on Merseyrail were trains in passenger service can get to full speed before having to slow down for the next station

Partly because the acceleration of the current units is woeful. The 777s are like rockets and will get to 60/70 on some sections well before the 507s could even in their prime.