TPE Nova 3 (Class 68 + Mk5s) updates and withdrawal from service

[BoroAndy]

According to RTT nearly all 185 journies have gone back down to 3 cars. We seem to be going backwards very quickly.

 

[Killingworth]

According to RTT nearly all 185 journies have gone back down to 3 cars. We seem to be going backwards very quickly.

I was at Piccadilly this afternoon and during the 90 minutes I was there I saw a Nova 3 in the distance, out of service, 3 car and 6 car 185s from Cleethorpes to Liverpool and a 3 car to Huddersfield. Everything else cancelled, see; https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se.../1400-1530?stp=WVSC&show=all&order=wtt&toc=TP

The main train shed was very quiet, although there were huddles of TPE staff standing around talking to each other as loudspeakers kept apologising for yet another cancellation - and advising to take a Metrolink tram to Victoria for trains to Huddersfield and onward connections from there.

 

[xotGD]

I had to turn to Northern to get me to Manchester again this morning. That is 2 days out of 3 that neither the 08:00 nor the 08:07 from Leeds have operated. 1U28 got as far as York this morning, and was then cancelled. In contrast, they both ran yesterday - feast or famine.

At least the 16:44 from the Airport has operated every day so far this week to get me back across the Pennines.

Roll on tomorrow!

 

[Killingworth]

I had to turn to Northern to get me to Manchester again this morning. That is 2 days out of 3 that neither the 08:00 nor the 08:07 from Leeds have operated. 1U28 got as far as York this morning, and was then cancelled. In contrast, they both ran yesterday - feast or famine.

At least the 16:44 from the Airport has operated every day so far this week to get me back across the Pennines.

Roll on tomorrow!

No signs of Nova 3s on South Pennine again today and nearly half of services through Sheffield cancelled.

 

[D6130]

No signs of Nova 3s on South Pennine again today and nearly half of services through Sheffield cancelled.

There was a loco and set stabled in Doncaster Up Yard yesterday and another in Stockport carriage sidings today.

 

[xotGD]

Looks like only a single 68 out on the Scarborough circuit today.

My week of journeys to and from Manchester has not been a great success. Just one 68 move out of 10 possibilities.

Update: Perhaps I have been a bit premature in my pessimism - 1U47, 1U60 and 1U71 are now showing as booked for 68033 - we shall see...

Further update: Surprise, surprise, 1U71 has now been cancelled. A Northern chariot to take me across the Pennines again.

 

[37201xoIM]

It looks as though 68034 (or its train) was naughty today and sat down at Hudd:

Realtime Trains | 1U47 1135 Manchester Piccadilly to Scarborough | 24/01/2023

Real-time train running information for 1U47 1135 departure from Manchester Piccadilly to Scarborough on 24/01/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

It looks as though it blocked platform 8 for a while.

Any word on what happened?

 

[Jamesrob637]

It looks as though 68034 (or its train) was naughty today and sat down at Hudd:

Realtime Trains | 1U47 1135 Manchester Piccadilly to Scarborough | 24/01/2023

Real-time train running information for 1U47 1135 departure from Manchester Piccadilly to Scarborough on 24/01/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

It looks as though it blocked platform 8 for a while.

Any word on what happened?

The other reason TPE has so many cancellations, simply put.

 

[FrodshamJnct]

It looks as though 68034 (or its train) was naughty today and sat down at Hudd:

Realtime Trains | 1U47 1135 Manchester Piccadilly to Scarborough | 24/01/2023

Real-time train running information for 1U47 1135 departure from Manchester Piccadilly to Scarborough on 24/01/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

It looks as though it blocked platform 8 for a while.

Any word on what happened?

Multiple hot axle box indications.

 

[coxxy]

Multiple hot axle box indications.

CAF still not fixed the wiring yet then?

 

[37201xoIM]

Multiple hot axle box indications.

Thanks, much appreciated. Yes, I recall spurious indications were an issue quite a long time ago?

 

[Russel]

Is the 11:03 York - Scarborough service likley to be a Class 68 + Mk5 set on Saturday 18th Feb?

This thread is a real eye opener to the state of TPE. Truly unacceptable.

 

[sjpowermac]

Is the 11:03 York - Scarborough service likley to be a Class 68 + Mk5 set on Saturday 18th Feb?

This thread is a real eye opener to the state of TPE. Truly unacceptable.

The last time the 1103 York to Scarborough was a Class 68 was 04.02.2023. During the week it’s the 0935 Manchester Piccadilly-Scarborough, which I understand is currently diagrammed for a Class 185.

Regarding 18.02.2023, a modified timetable is in operation, a bit early to tell at this stage if a 68 will work that train. For reference though, so far this week only 68029/TP04 has been in passenger service.

 

[ohgoditsjames]

Didn't Arriva lose Northern Rail for performances BETTER than TPE's current situation?

 

[BoroAndy]

The last time the 1103 York to Scarborough was a Class 68 was 04.02.2023. During the week it’s the 0935 Manchester Piccadilly-Scarborough, which I understand is currently diagrammed for a Class 185.

Regarding 18.02.2023, a modified timetable is in operation, a bit early to tell at this stage if a 68 will work that train. For reference though, so far this week only 68029/TP04 has been in passenger service.

As most services seem to be running now, does this mean that the sickness issues are coming to an end?..... But..... As only 1 class 68 diagram, does this mean that there is still a huge traction training backlog?

 

[Russel]

The last time the 1103 York to Scarborough was a Class 68 was 04.02.2023. During the week it’s the 0935 Manchester Piccadilly-Scarborough, which I understand is currently diagrammed for a Class 185.

Regarding 18.02.2023, a modified timetable is in operation, a bit early to tell at this stage if a 68 will work that train. For reference though, so far this week only 68029/TP04 has been in passenger service.

Thanks for the information.

Utterly shambolic.

 

[a1904]

Didn't Arriva lose Northern Rail for performances BETTER than TPE's current situation?

Yes, much better performance (and at the time of that change TPE was already a lot worse than Northern).

I commute from Huddersfield to Leeds every day and I've seen the Felix named 68 a grand total of once since I started doing that in 2019

 

[sjpowermac]

As most services seem to be running now, does this mean that the sickness issues are coming to an end?..... But..... As only 1 class 68 diagram, does this mean that there is still a huge traction training backlog?

As I understand it, traction training was completed for Scarborough drivers pre-pandemic, York drivers summer 2022 and Manchester drivers Autumn 2022. I think there are a small number of additional drivers now to be trained on the Class 68s.

The way the loco diagrams are constructed there are two sets of three day diagrams:

Day 1
Starts Longsight>Ends Scarborough station
Day 2
Starts Scarborough Station>Ends Scarborough TMD
Day 3
Starts Scarborough TMD>Ends Longsight

The two diagrams ex-Longsight start with:
1P05 0242 Manchester Piccadilly-Scarborough
1P07 0359 Manchester Airport-Scarborough
Both of which are frequently cancelled or, for reasons I don’t fully understand, have crew allocated who don’t sign Class 68s.

So, getting the locos on/off those three day diagrams seems to be proving difficult, at least in part, due to the generally high levels of cancellations.

 

[xotGD]

As I understand it, traction training was completed for Scarborough drivers pre-pandemic, York drivers summer 2022 and Manchester drivers Autumn 2022. I think there are a small number of additional drivers now to be trained on the Class 68s.

The way the loco diagrams are constructed there are two sets of three day diagrams:

Day 1
Starts Longsight>Ends Scarborough station
Day 2
Starts Scarborough Station>Ends Scarborough TMD
Day 3
Starts Scarborough TMD>Ends Longsight

The two diagrams ex-Longsight start with:
1P05 0242 Manchester Piccadilly-Scarborough
1P07 0359 Manchester Airport-Scarborough
Both of which are frequently cancelled or, for reasons I don’t fully understand, have crew allocated who don’t sign Class 68s.

So, getting the locos on/off those three day diagrams seems to be proving difficult, at least in part, due to the generally high levels of cancellations.

Do you know if TPE has ever managed to cover all six diagrams in the same day?

 

[sjpowermac]

Do you know if TPE has ever managed to cover all six diagrams in the same day?

That’s a good question.
The best so far has been 5 diagrams:
12.12.2022
11.01.2023
13.01.2023

 

[CAF397]

The two diagrams ex-Longsight start with:
1P05 0242 Manchester Piccadilly-Scarborough
1P07 0359 Manchester Airport-Scarborough
Both of which are frequently cancelled or, for reasons I don’t fully understand, have crew allocated who don’t sign Class 68s.

So, getting the locos on/off those three day diagrams seems to be proving difficult, at least in part, due to the generally high levels of cancellations.

If one of the drivers diagrams is uncovered then the set won't come off Longsight in the morning, this will either lead to a full circuit being cancelled, or substitution at some point with a 185.

 

[CE142]

Didn't Arriva lose Northern Rail for performances BETTER than TPE's current situation?

Yes! Arriva was shafted by the DfT and Network Rail. They had slowly started to turn things around when the DfT pulled the rug from underneath them.
TPE hid behind Northern at that point and have been hiding behind Avanti for far too long.... Problem is TPE is far too far gone to turn around, especially with the current problems within the industry.

 

[sjpowermac]

If one of the drivers diagrams is uncovered then the set won't come off Longsight in the morning, this will either lead to a full circuit being cancelled, or substitution at some point with a 185.

Many thanks for that, the uncovered part makes sense.

All ways round, something, somewhere has changed, even compared with a few weeks ago.

The results are painfully obvious: so far this week the only day to see more than one Class 68/Mk5a set in passenger operation was Thursday, when there were two sets out, against the previously diagrammed six.

On Thursday there were two sets moved from Longsight to Crewe South Yard to free up space at the depot. That’s a tragic waste of resources and also means many more three car Class 185s roaming the network.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Many thanks for that, the uncovered part makes sense.

All ways round, something, somewhere has changed, even compared with a few weeks ago.

The results are painfully obvious: so far this week the only day to see more than one Class 68/Mk5a set in passenger operation was Thursday, when there were two sets out, against the previously diagrammed six.

On Thursday there were two sets moved from Longsight to Crewe South Yard to free up space at the depot. That’s a tragic waste of resources and also means many more three car Class 185s roaming the network.

So really the use of 68+Mk5s is declining from a rather low level ?.

I recall set TP07 was recently (Wednesday ?) moved to Longsight but now it seems two sets left !. Or are there other moves to balance ?.

 

[Greybeard33]

Many thanks for that, the uncovered part makes sense.

All ways round, something, somewhere has changed, even compared with a few weeks ago.

The results are painfully obvious: so far this week the only day to see more than one Class 68/Mk5a set in passenger operation was Thursday, when there were two sets out, against the previously diagrammed six.

On Thursday there were two sets moved from Longsight to Crewe South Yard to free up space at the depot. That’s a tragic waste of resources and also means many more three car Class 185s roaming the network.

Network Rail's track access Variable Usage Charge (pence per mile) is undoubtedly much higher for a locomotive and five coaches than for a 3-car 185. And fuel burn must be much higher too. While TPE will be under severe pressure from DfT to reduce marginal operating costs.

However, I have no idea if such considerations are a factor in 68/Mk5a usage decisions....

 

[sjpowermac]

So really the use of 68+Mk5s is declining from a rather low level ?.

I recall set TP07 was recently (Wednesday ?) moved to Longsight but now it seems two sets left !. Or are there other moves to balance ?.

There are currently seven sets on Longsight:
68019/TP07
68020/TP02
68021/TP10
68022/TP09
68026/TP05
68031/TP06
68032/TP08

Network Rail's track access Variable Usage Charge (pence per mile) is undoubtedly much higher for a locomotive and five coaches than for a 3-car 185. And fuel burn must be much higher too. While TPE will be under severe pressure from DfT to reduce marginal operating costs.

However, I have no idea if such considerations are a factor in 68/Mk5a usage decisions....

Many thanks for that. Those are all very good points. I was stupidly looking at it from a passenger perspective of overcrowding on three car Class 185s!

 

[J-P_L]

I recall set TP07 was recently (Wednesday ?) moved to Longsight but now it seems two sets left !. Or are there other moves to balance ?.

68019/TP07 moved from Gascoigne Wood to Longsight on Wednesday but there was no move in the opposite direction.

That only leaves 68034/TP13 and 68027 (Light Loco) at Gascoigne Wood (there are usually 2x full sets plus 1x light loco).

 

[Jamesrob637]

There are currently seven sets on Longsight:
68019/TP07
68020/TP02
68021/TP10
68022/TP09
68026/TP05
68031/TP06
68032/TP08


Many thanks for that. Those are all very good points. I was stupidly looking at it from a passenger perspective of overcrowding on three car Class 185s!

Well, get the things out there then!! What's the point of ordering new trains only for them to sit around when the first of them entered service three and a half years ago!! It's not like (still) none are in service!

 

[xotGD]

That’s a good question.
The best so far has been 5 diagrams:
12.12.2022
11.01.2023
13.01.2023

Thanks! Five is looking very unlikely at the moment. Heck, four is looking unlikely.

 

[BoroAndy]

So comments over the last few days seem to confirm that 68+5A sets are being used very minimally, yet training is all but complete, sets are all ready to go, sickness is a lot lower,..... So just why are we seeing 3 car sets of 185s rather than the new trains????