CAF Civity for TfW: News and updates on introduction.

[Bikeman78]

I've used that service twice, end-to-end (return) on business. Travelling north in the morning peak, and down in the evening, patronage felt very sparse: the old Cardiff Bay bubble unit would be more than ample!

I did it the other day. Only person to get off at Crosskeys and the only one to get on the return. Never more than five people on it. I expect it will be a lot more useful when it runs through to Ebbw Vale.

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

I did it the other day. Only person to get off at Crosskeys and the only one to get on the return. Never more than five people on it. I expect it will be a lot more useful when it runs through to Ebbw Vale.

It was political pressure that led to the Newport service rather than a strong business case. Blaenau Gwent politicians have always campaigned for more Ebbw Vale-Cardiff services while those in Islwyn and Newport itself prioritised Newport services. In the end neither have been truly satisfied.

Historicaly the line did used to run into Newport with passengers changing for Cardiff. Nostalgia isn't a good arguement though and the growth of Cardiff and decline of Newport meant that traffic flows werr always going to be much stronger running into the capital.

In terms of revitalising Newport, improving services to Bristol and new stations of the SW mainline are far more important than links to the valleys.

 

[Dai Corner]

It was political pressure that led to the Newport service rather than a strong business case. Blaenau Gwent politicians have always campaigned for more Ebbw Vale-Cardiff services while those in Islwyn and Newport itself prioritised Newport services. In the end neither have been truly satisfied.

Historicaly the line did used to run into Newport with passengers changing for Cardiff. Nostalgia isn't a good arguement though and the growth of Cardiff and decline of Newport meant that traffic flows werr always going to be much stronger running into the capital.

In terms of revitalising Newport, improving services to Bristol and new stations of the SW mainline are far more important than links to the valleys.

Yep.

Actually there is quite a large flow between Newport and the Western Valleys but it's better catered for by the six or seven buses an hour that run during the day than the hourly train. Higher frequencies and good connections at Newport for Bristol might see Bristolians start to look at Western valley properties though.

 

[Jez]

Id say that having a service to/from both Newport and Cardiff per hour is a nice balance. Id imagine people would want to travel to both cities, Newport as its closer to Ebbw Vale plus Cardiff being the capital has a lot more to offer in terms of work and social life.

Going back on topic, does anyone know what date we can expect the first 3 car 197 into service? Given so many services are transferring from May onwards its going to be a decrease in capacity for some routes if its 2 cars initially.

 

[SuperLuke2334]

Id say that having a service to/from both Newport and Cardiff per hour is a nice balance. Id imagine people would want to travel to both cities, Newport as its closer to Ebbw Vale plus Cardiff being the capital has a lot more to offer in terms of work and social life.

Going back on topic, does anyone know what date we can expect the first 3 car 197 into service? Given so many services are transferring from May onwards its going to be a decrease in capacity for some routes if its 2 cars initially.

101 was meant to be handed over in the last couple of weeks but I'll see if there's any updates.

 

[Jacob Porrett]

197104 left Wolverton and went to Crewe today.

 

[Rhydgaled]

197's have ASDO so short platforms shouldn't be as big an issue. 6 cars is too long for most platforms without ASDO.
4 cars isn't needed to Aberystwyth the majority of the time. But in summer the Cambrian line is desperate for capacity upgrade.

I'm pretty sure Arriva Trains Wales ran a 6-car 158 formation between Machynlleth and Birmingham once a day for a while, so the platforms must be long enough (or else they did local-door at places with short platforms - I forget whether Caersws was reported as an issue at the time).

why will some units have ETCS and some won't? Unless installation is a huge cost woudn't it be operationally inconvenient when it comes to substitutions?

I seem to recall reading something about simply having ETCS fitted to a unit being operationally inconvenient in itself (something about Network Rail insisting that it (or at least the train protection component) be switched on at all times if fitted to the unit, even if not running on an ETCS-equipped route)?

 

[william.martin]

I'm pretty sure Arriva Trains Wales ran a 6-car 158 formation between Machynlleth and Birmingham once a day for a while, so the platforms must be long enough (or else they did local-door at places with short platforms - I forget whether Caersws was reported as an issue at the time).

I don't remember it being daily although I remember a 4 car 158 at Dyfryyn Ardudwy which I assume later adjoined onto another one at Machynlleth.
Until the 175 shortage TFW normally ran a 6 car 158 which fitted onto all platforms between Shrewsbury and Birmingham (excluding the locals.) This ran once a day between Holyhead and Birmingham before it returned but dropped 4 cars at Shrewsbury.

 

[Bikeman78]

I don't remember it being daily although I remember a 4 car 158 at Dyfryyn Ardudwy which I assume later adjoined onto another one at Machynlleth.

This is a big no no since the ORR decided that trains cannot stop with the rear overhanging the level crossing at some stations. So the Pwllheli line is stuck with two car trains until the relevant platforms are extended. I can't see that happening any time soon.

 

[craigybagel]

I'm pretty sure Arriva Trains Wales ran a 6-car 158 formation between Machynlleth and Birmingham once a day for a while, so the platforms must be long enough (or else they did local-door at places with short platforms - I forget whether Caersws was reported as an issue at the time).


I seem to recall reading something about simply having ETCS fitted to a unit being operationally inconvenient in itself (something about Network Rail insisting that it (or at least the train protection component) be switched on at all times if fitted to the unit, even if not running on an ETCS-equipped route)?

I don't remember it being daily although I remember a 4 car 158 at Dyfryyn Ardudwy which I assume later adjoined onto another one at Machynlleth.
Until the 175 shortage TFW normally ran a 6 car 158 which fitted onto all platforms between Shrewsbury and Birmingham (excluding the locals.) This ran once a day between Holyhead and Birmingham before it returned but dropped 4 cars at Shrewsbury.

6 cars can run all the way between Aberystwyth and Birmingham - the only platform that is too short is indeed Caersws, but a special workaround was put in place to deal with that

4 cars up the coast have been banned for several years now.

 

[william.martin]

4 cars up the coast have been banned for several years now.

How many years?
I last saw one in about 2014 and I do remember the back sticking out over the crossing.
If so I have wasted the last two years of my life checking to see if a four is working the Cambrian (I check RTT daily for certain things E.G trains I need or events worth seeing.)

 

[craigybagel]

How many years?
I last saw one in about 2014 and I do remember the back sticking out over the crossing.
If so I have wasted the last two years of my life checking to see if a four is working the Cambrian (I check RTT daily for certain things E.G trains I need or events worth seeing.)

I don't know the exact date, but it was more than 2 years ago anyway.

 

[Jez]

According to RTT there is a pair of 197s doing the Liverpool service today.

I thought the Liverpool.service was suspended until next week due to 'more trains than usual needing repairs'

 

[Doveymain158]

Before the increased service on the Cambrian there use to be an 0810 Machynlleth to Aberystwyth service Mon-Fri it use to attach to the 0625 Bham New St-Aberystwyth in platform at Aberystwyth making a 4-car train. Upon arrival at Machynlleth it use to Join up with the Pwllheli portion making it 6-cars.

 

[childwallblues]

According to RTT there is a pair of 197s doing the Liverpool service today.

I thought the Liverpool.service was suspended until next week due to 'more trains than usual needing repair

According to RTT there is a pair of 197s doing the Liverpool service today.

I thought the Liverpool.service was suspended until next week due to 'more trains than usual needing repairs'

Off last week. 197010 and 197009 were on the 0945 LIV-CTR this morning. I think it was 009 first day in service. It didn't last long as the following service was cancelled and now 010 is on the service on its own.

 

[SuperLuke2334]

Off last week. 197010 and 197009 were on the 0945 LIV-CTR this morning. I think it was 009 first day in service. It didn't last long as the following service was cancelled and now 010 is on the service on its own.

009 has been in service many times before.

 

[Jez]

Says on TFW Journey check the cancellation was due to a fault on the train.

Could possibly be incorrect but RTT is listing 197008 as doing the 1052 Cardiff to Manchester tomorrow!

 

[Doveymain158]

Says on TFW Journey check the cancellation was due to a fault on the train.

Could possibly be incorrect but RTT is listing 197008 as doing the 1052 Cardiff to Manchester tomorrow!

Not enough crews to do that just yet! I wouldnt follow RTT for that probably be swapped out for something else

 

[sd0733]

Says on TFW Journey check the cancellation was due to a fault on the train.

Could possibly be incorrect but RTT is listing 197008 as doing the 1052 Cardiff to Manchester tomorrow!

It'll be a Mk4 set. 197008 may start the diagram but HD06 is running ecs from Crewe to pick 1V91 at Chester and the rest of the diagram.

 

[Anonymous10]

It'll be a Mk4 set. 197008 may start the diagram but HD06 is running ecs from Crewe to pick 1V91 at Chester and the rest of the diagram.

It's been swapped out for 175001 so another 175 returns

 

[Jez]

Not enough crews to do that just yet! I wouldnt follow RTT for that probably be swapped out for something else

I had a feeling it probably wouldn't be correct! They keep getting our hopes up! Now showing as 175001.

At least its not a 150/153.

 

[Bob Price]

197020 on test runs today. More and more units getting mobile. Currently sitting on Crewe before heading out on 3Q72 to Holyhead.

 

[Mzzzs]

I was just at Chester which has 4 197 units. 3 in the sidings and 1 on a platform. 2 on test one in the sidings and one on the platform which left after a while.
All 2 car units.
Few units around the Chester TMD.
Typing this while on a 197. So far the units are quite nice.
Definitely not as bad as some of the online reviewers say.

 

[trawscymru27]

Do they have doors between the carriages? I was on a Northern 195 the other day and the draught from the gangway between the carriages was really noticeable.

 

[6Gtraincrew]

Do they have doors between the carriages? I was on a Northern 195 the other day and the draught from the gangway between the carriages was really noticeable.

No they don't have doors between the carriages

 

[JakeMurphy]

Do we have a update on when we can expect the next 197 to debut in passenger service at all?

 

[SuperLuke2334]

Do we have a update on when we can expect the next 197 to debut in passenger service at all?

There are a couple more on mileage accumulation now but it's all gone quiet on 101 entering service.

 

[JakeMurphy]

There are a couple more on mileage accumulation now but it's all gone quiet on 101 entering service.

When do you reckon we’ll have another 2 car ready?

 

[SuperLuke2334]

When do you reckon we’ll have another 2 car ready?

I don't know honestly. I think they only have to do 500 miles on the 2 cars now that x many have passed. So it could be a matter of a couple of weeks.
They need I think 3 or 4 3 cars for the May TT though so I do hope they hurry up with it.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

They need I think 3 or 4 3 cars for the May TT though so I do hope they hurry up with it.

Yes, the introduction seems to have slowed down somewhat, and at the worst time. As soon as we have 3 cars going, and working Holyhead Cardiff in full, the pressure will start to ease slightly on Sprinters and the limited available 175s/MK4s. Ideally we need some on Manchester South Wales too, but that's not planned for months off according to the draft timetables that were released some months back.