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Could the LU Northern Line be split by closing Camden Town on one of the branches?

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Pdf

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There have been plenty of proposals over the years to split the Bank and Charing Cross branches of the northern line into seperate lines. This would have the advantage of allowing higher frequencies due to less waiting for trains crossing between branches and no need to send trains from Mordern into both branches of the central London section.

The biggest roadblock to these proposals is Camden Town not being big enough to handle the volume of passengers interchanging between these new lines. Camden Town already has overcrowding problems due to its status as a popular destination as well as being an interchange between the northern line branches in a small station destined for much less traffic. Any proposal to split the northern line is usually predicated on a rebuild of Camden town to give it much more interchange capacity, but there is no plans or money to do this any time soon.

What if instead of an expensive and disruptive rebuild, Camden Town was closed on one of the branches, directing all interchange to Euston, which is much more capable of handling it? Charing Cross branch trains, which already stop at Mornington Crescent, could then be sent exclusively up the Edgeware branch, next calling at Chalk Farm. Both these stations are a short walk from Camden Town as well as the destinations it serves such as Camden Market. Skipping this stop would reduce journey times, somewhat making up for the additional journey time required to Euston if you were heading from Highgate to Edgeware for example. This would also alleviate overcrowding at Camden Town as there is now no interchange passengers and many people heading to Camden Town would get off at Chalk Farm or Mornington Crescent instead.

In summary, split the northern line into one line from Battersea Power Station station to Edgeware via Charing Cross, not calling at Camden Town and one line from Morden to High Barnet via Bank which would continue to call at Camden Town. All interchange between these lines would occur at Kennington or Euston.

Do you think this could work?
 
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Basil Jet

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It is said that London Underground's Northern Line cannot be split into two lines without a major rebuilding of Camden Town station, because of the large number of people who would need to change trains there. However, such a rebuilding would be a wasted expense in the long term, because people change their place of residence on average every seven years, and I think change their place of work even more frequently. As soon as the lines were split, any people changing residence or job would plan their new commute around the new tube map, and so after a decade, the vast majority of current Northern Line commuters would either work and live on the Bank Line or work and live on the Charing Cross Line, and the glut of people changing at Camden Town would have been a short lived phenomenon.

There is a nearly free solution. Declare the line to be two separate lines - a Bank Line to Barnet with a "limited" service to Edgware, and a Charing Cross Line to Edgware with a "limited" service to Barnet. The map would show each line south of Camden with a single colour, and each line north of Camden would be a double stripe with one of the colours dashed (as used to happen between Rayners Lane and Uxbridge when the Piccadilly Line had a limited service supplementing the main service of Metropolitan Line trains). The timetables would not change, still providing 50% service to each branch from each trunk, so there would be no overcrowding at Camden. The stigma of limited service shown on the map would affect people's perceptions, and anyone changing residence or job would avoid planning their commute around the supposedly limited service, and thus journey patterns would gradually to shift to match the map. After three years you bring in a new timetable with 60% following the main routes and 40% following the limited routes. The gradual shift of journey patterns continues, so every three years you can switch to 66% main and 33% limited, then 75% main and 25% limited, then 80% main and 20% limited, and finally fifteen years after splitting the lines on the map you can split the lines completely, without ever overloading Camden or rebuilding it.
 
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people change their place of residence on average every seven years, and I think change their place of work even more frequently. As soon as the lines were split, any people changing residence or job would plan their new commute around the new tube map, and so after a decade, the vast majority of current Northern Line commuters would either work and live on the Bank Line or work and live on the Charing Cross Line, and the glut of people changing at Camden Town would have been a short lived phenomenon.

I think this is an over simplification as whilst it is clearly a factor, people don’t choose where to live or work based on whether they can travel between their home and office without a change. Say post split of the branches you live on the Edgware and Charing Cross line and work in the West End but see a new job advertised for 30% more money in the City. You aren’t going to not take this job or move house simply because it requires a change of tube.

If people don’t change where they live and work as a result of the split as you suggest it will actually increase pressure on changing at Camden Town.
 

Snow1964

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Euston is not a great place to change either, the two branches were built separately and I think the direct interchange passageway is now closed (since Victoria line added)

When the Victoria line was built in late 1960s, a new platform was built and cross platform interchange with Bank branch built. But each of these pairs of platforms and the pair serving Charring Cross were all linked by one (not that large) passageway, so not lot of interchange capacity, and it involves escalators too. Unlike busy stations there is not a separate passageway for passengers changing in reverse direction to avoid them crossing in front of each other at ends of escalators.

So basically have a choice of Camden Town or Euston, neither of which has much interchange capacity. Euston would get busier when (if) HS2 opens so not great idea to force extra interchanges at Euston.
 
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Maybe a refurbished Camden Town could be completed by then. Ha haha :'(
Funnily enough although veering slightly off-topic, to better ‘sell’ HS2 I think there should have been an associated package of improvements to infrastructure to help support and maximise the benefits of HS2 in the areas affected most by disruption and construction. Obviously would increase costs but these are investments that are probably going to be needed in the not too distant future anyway.

For example, HS2 will increase the numbers arriving into Euston therefore greater frequency of underground services required which can be achieved by splitting the northern line facilitated by the Camden Town rebuild. Money provided towards this as part of the ‘unlocking the benefits of HS2 fund’ or whatever you want to call it then less opposition from Camden Council for the overall project.

Similarly, extra capacity between Birmingham and London means Chiltern expresses less needed meaning trains to stop more frequently and therefore benefits of electrification greater. Also provide the Old Oak Chiltern terminating platforms to provide more capacity and reduce disruption from electrification.

Chiltern costs obviously more but an extra c. £250m not actually that much in the scheme of the HS2 budget for the Camden rebuild. Logistics of line splitting and additional tube stock then paid for by TfL.
 

Mikey C

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Euston is a pain to change between the 2 Northern Line branches, the Charing X branch is quite isolated, with no self contained passageways to the rest of the station. Indeed the Charing X branch has quite poor connections to other lines when compared to the Bank branch, which has cross platform interchange to the Victoria Line at Euston, and easy access to the Piccadilly Line at Kings X.

As for splitting the Northern Line, it seems fairly pointless now as there aren't any extra trains to increase the frequency anyway, after that proposed order for extra Northern and Jubilee line trains never happened.
 

bramling

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Interesting idea but presumably Euston wouldn’t be able to cope, particularly if HS2 arrives. Looking at the layout and using the station, difficult to see how it could still work after adding a lot of extra interchanging passengers.


I don’t think Euston could take over the interchange side of things, the low-level parts of the station are enough of a bottleneck as it is. In the longer term it would become less of an issue as people adjust their travel patterns.

Really the Northern Line works fairly well as it is. The biggest problem is that the Camden junctions struggle during disruption, something which the new signalling system has exacerbated. However when the service runs well the current arrangements seem to work well, and I’d be very reluctant to make changes.
 

HamworthyGoods

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What if instead of an expensive and disruptive rebuild, Camden Town was closed on one of the branches, directing all interchange to Euston, which is much more capable of handling it?

Have you ever used the Charing Cross branch at Euston? There are only flights of steps to get between the platforms and the concourse - that means it is a non starter for use as a key interchange. It gets clogged up enough at peak times with people struggling on stairs especially with luggage.
 

PeterC

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Also, people from North London find having a tube connection to Camden Town quite useful!
The journey made famous in song from Golders Green to Finchley Central. Euston just wouldn't scan.

For those too young to get the reference see the YouTube clip linked below

 

Sad Sprinter

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I'd rather more direct trains from CX to Morden. Especially at night or on weekends, which always empties a train load of frustrated passengers onto the already busy southbound Bank platform at Kennington. Especially with Crossrail at TCR, it's annoying there are still not enough direct trains via the West End.
 

DanNCL

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This idea would just move the problem to Euston rather than solving it. It would also add in an unreasonable detour for passengers starting/ending their journey at Camden Town who require the branch that would lose it's platforms at Camden Town.
 

Pdf

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It would also add in an unreasonable detour for passengers starting/ending their journey at Camden Town who require the branch that would lose it's platforms at Camden Town.
Mornington Crescent and Chalk Farm are 5 minutes walk northwest and south of Camden Town respectively, so the only issue is interchange.
 

Mikey C

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Mornington Crescent and Chalk Farm are 5 minutes walk northwest and south of Camden Town respectively, so the only issue is interchange.
10 to 15 minutes walk actually. Especially if you're fighting through crowds
 

DanNCL

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Mornington Crescent and Chalk Farm are 5 minutes walk northwest and south of Camden Town respectively, so the only issue is interchange.
Maybe if you walk quickly. It's at least 10 minutes if not more if you're walking at an average walking pace, have a disability, have young children, are elderly etc.

Also, what do you propose to do about fares for those travelling between the Edgware and High Barnet branches? Changing at Camden Town they stay in Zone 2, if they had to go down to Euston they'd be entering Zone 1.
 

leytongabriel

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Also worth bearing in mind perhaps that going via Bank from South London to say Camden is slower than via Charing Cross.
 
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