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East Anglia Bus Scene

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3 Jan 2023
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9
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Norwich
I live in Norwich and I'm without a car so I use public transport in the area. Outside of Cambridge, few people really use public transport unless they really have to. Ipswich town centre is dead and not a place you'd go to by choice. All the manufacturing and most of the office jobs have gone. I can't imagine many people from Sudbury would want to go there.
No comment on Beestons but not sure anyone else could do much better.
 
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buslad1988

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28 Dec 2018
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366
I live in Norwich and I'm without a car so I use public transport in the area. Outside of Cambridge, few people really use public transport unless they really have to. Ipswich town centre is dead and not a place you'd go to by choice. All the manufacturing and most of the office jobs have gone. I can't imagine many people from Sudbury would want to go there.
No comment on Beestons but not sure anyone else could do much better.
Bus provision in Norfolk is like night and day compared to Suffolk. Aided by the county councils attitude towards it; hence their successful bid in the ‘Bus back better’ campaign which aspects of those plans are now starting to materialise.

You could argue the case for many town centres being dead across the country but it’s how bus companies adapt to the situation. Is it a case of simply managing general decline to extinction or thinking outside the box and adapting to the changing conditions. Chambers seem to be able to keep a fairly standard hourly timetable connecting Sudbury to Bury St Edmunds and Colchester.

With regard to Ipswich Buses it will be interesting to see what direction the new Managing Director will take the company in. The previous General Manager seemed focused on contracts and private hire work. It won’t be a quick fix to just rebrand with a new livery that’s required it’ll be a detailed network review.
 

markymark2000

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You could argue the case for many town centres being dead across the country but it’s how bus companies adapt to the situation. Is it a case of simply managing general decline to extinction or thinking outside the box and adapting to the changing conditions.
I mean, look at how many housing developments and major retail areas are either severely underserved or completely unserved due to councils not asking for the right bus infrastructure to be in place and bus companies not trying to serve the developments (irrespective of if any infrastructure is in place or not).

99% of bus companies don't adapt to changing conditions in terms of new areas of demand. The only changing conditions they adapt to are reduced demand and then they get the big scissors out and start cutting.
 

Kartenga

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25 Feb 2021
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Hadleigh
The 91 has always been made up of mostly three groups of people, commuters in morning and evening peak, students in the morning and evening peak and at lunchtime and concessionary pass holders during the middle of the day and leisure passengers on a Saturday.

The only group really affected by these changes to any degree is going to be the concessionary pass holders and they're probably going to just simply adjust their times around what the new schedule is with the dropped services.

I agree it's not ideal for the service to be cut back the way it is and it can never be a good thing but I would imagine that the services being pulled are poorly performing commercially and are nowhere near pulling their weight compared to the rest of the departures. I know even as recently as December some of the Ipswich to Hadleigh and vice versa shorts were not even managing a handful of passengers per journey.
As I have said before if you don’t use it you lose it. For Beestons the fare is too much for some people and ironically it's cheaper to go by car. It would be interesting to see which new buses arrive if this is persuasive to bring more people back on to the 91. But you all must realise this is not a local situation but a national situation affecting many bus companies who actually have dropped routes altogether.
 
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ScotGG

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3 Apr 2013
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1,388
Norwich could do with better evening buses as it actually has a decent nightlife and is a major uni city.

I was hoping the Bus Back Better would at least permit evening buses every 30 mins or even at regular hours. Currently some routes are every 90 mins which is not enough and impacts the wider economy preventing people going into the city centre.

There's a lot of new housing around the city and nearby towns where an hourly bus route would work eg to new homes past Thorpe and also loads in Cringleford and Wymondham yet a route like the 13 is really poor on Sundays and the evenings.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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Somerset with international travel (e.g. across th
Norwich could do with better evening buses as it actually has a decent nightlife and is a major uni city.

I was hoping the Bus Back Better would at least permit evening buses every 30 mins or even at regular hours. Currently some routes are every 90 mins which is not enough and impacts the wider economy preventing people going into the city centre.

There's a lot of new housing around the city and nearby towns where an hourly bus route would work eg to new homes past Thorpe and also loads in Cringleford and Wymondham yet a route like the 13 is really poor on Sundays and the evenings.
I don't know Norwich very well. I did take the opportunity to travel around there last summer and was a bit surprised that the evening service to Wymondham went from 4 bph (the direct 13 every 30 mins, and the slightly more circuitous 15/15A) to an evening service that was hourly, then every 90 mins via a route that combined elements of both sets of routes. I travelled on the 1915 (one bus on one Summer's day, I appreciate) to Wymondham and it was really busy.

It's noticeable on some of the interurban routes how the frequency really does drop down. The X2/X22 goes from every 15 mins until 1830, then about 3 more journeys with the last two having something like a 2.5 gap as it's operated by a single bus on a round trip.
 

AaronR

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12 Aug 2012
Messages
53
Colchester is like that too in some areas. The evening service frequency is poor to say the least.

On a separate note I do wonder what will happen with Ipswich Buses now. An ever ageing fleet, no management, traffic issues in Ipswich and a dying town centre, surely the council won’t want to keep hold of it much longer when they are struggling to make ends meet as it is?
 

paulprentice

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Joined
22 Aug 2011
Messages
18
Colchester is like that too in some areas. The evening service frequency is poor to say the least.

On a separate note I do wonder what will happen with Ipswich Buses now. An ever ageing fleet, no management, traffic issues in Ipswich and a dying town centre, surely the council won’t want to keep hold of it much longer when they are struggling to make ends meet as it is?
No chance of the Labour-run Ipswich Borough Council selling Ipswich Buses. I agree the company has issues to deal with, as does the town (not unlike many, many other towns and cities), but it is well-run despite an ageing fleet and has kept its head above water in difficult times.

The management issue will be sorted before long, no doubt.

Given the likelihood of a government taking power in the next few years that is pro-municipal bus company, I should think the council will want to hang on and wait for better times. Ipswich Buses have after all seen off any attempts to sell the company many times in the past, even when the council has been run by the Tories.
 
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F Great Eastern

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2 Apr 2009
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3,595
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East Anglia
Beestons have published further details of their changes
- New Timetable
- Service Changes

They're also moving stands from stand F to stand L at the Cattle Market. Does that indicate that there is rearrangement on the cards in terms of services to stands at the bus station in February?
 

buslad1988

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Joined
28 Dec 2018
Messages
366
Beestons have published further details of their changes
- New Timetable
- Service Changes

They're also moving stands from stand F to stand L at the Cattle Market. Does that indicate that there is rearrangement on the cards in terms of services to stands at the bus station in February?
I find it very strange they are encouraging customers to stock up on 10 journey tickets despite the fact they are withdrawing them! They are obviously removing them for a reason so why let customers stock pile… or are they hoping it’ll give them a small cash injection? From a business perspective seems very short sighted in the long term - so why bother putting the fares up in the first place? Always sets alarm bells ringing when the mention of ‘no refunds’ appears aswell.

Given the likelihood of a government taking power in the next few years that is pro-municipal bus company, I should think the council will want to hang on and wait for better times. Ipswich Buses have after all seen off any attempts to sell the company many times in the past, even when the council has been run by the Tories.
Wait for better times - what better times are they expecting to come? Passengers aren’t going to return in their droves unless the company proactively does something to attract them! The council are also part of the current problem with the business; too much political interference and lack of change because of the fright of upsetting the voting public.

It’s also interesting that at the last Ipswich Borough tender change First won the 4 (Sundays) and 14 (Weekdays) from Ipswich Buses.
 
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F Great Eastern

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2 Apr 2009
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3,595
Location
East Anglia
I find it very strange they are encouraging customers to stock up on 10 journey tickets despite the fact they are withdrawing them! They are obviously removing them for a reason so why let customers stock pile… or are they hoping it’ll give them a small cash injection? From a business perspective seems very short sighted in the long term - so why bother putting the fares up in the first place? Always sets alarm bells ringing when the mention of ‘no refunds’ appears aswell.


Wait for better times - what better times are they expecting to come? Passengers aren’t going to return in their droves unless the company proactively does something to attract them! The council are also part of the current problem with the business; too much political interference and lack of change because of the fright of upsetting the voting public.

It’s also interesting that at the last Ipswich Borough tender change First won the 4 (Sundays) and 14 (Weekdays) from Ipswich Buses.
I read it that the fares from Hadleigh to Ipswich are not going up, the only fares going up are the ones from Sudbury, Cornard, Newton Green to Ipswich, although obviously anyone who used to buy 10 journey tickets will see a fare rise because buying returns are going to be worse value as I assume the 10 journey tickets had a decent discount over returns? The 10 journey thing does seem very short term focused.

Encouraging people to bulk buy 10 journey tickets then withdrawing them does seem to be something that would provide a short cash injection and a little bit weird kind of behaviour on the face of it, unless there is something that we don't know about. Does anyone know if there has been any kind of fraud with these tickets or if it is even possible?

A conspiracy theory might be that the reason they're moving stands from stand F is another operator is entering the market, on the route from the same bus stop and they're trying to make as much money up front as possible before that happens from their regular punters to lock them in for a while. There's nothing to back that up at all. but I'm just thinking out loud as to what the benefit could be.
 

paulprentice

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Joined
22 Aug 2011
Messages
18
I find it very strange they are encouraging customers to stock up on 10 journey tickets despite the fact they are withdrawing them! They are obviously removing them for a reason so why let customers stock pile… or are they hoping it’ll give them a small cash injection? From a business perspective seems very short sighted in the long term - so why bother putting the fares up in the first place? Always sets alarm bells ringing when the mention of ‘no refunds’ appears aswell.


Wait for better times - what better times are they expecting to come? Passengers aren’t going to return in their droves unless the company proactively does something to attract them! The council are also part of the current problem with the business; too much political interference and lack of change because of the fright of upsetting the voting public.

It’s also interesting that at the last Ipswich Borough tender change First won the 4 (Sundays) and 14 (Weekdays) from Ipswich Buses.
The politics is important here; we're witnessing the dying days of the Tories in government nationally after a 12-year period in which they have dogmatically stuck to an anti-public sector agenda. A Labour government in Westminster will have a different approach, clearly more pro-public transport to help meet wider objectives, and will look much more favourably on the likes of Ipswich Buses who've stuck it out during some very difficult times. It's no wonder the likes of Ipswich have been overlooked for electric/hybrid bus investment - a red blob in the middle of a blue county doesn't chime with the government of the day.

The council may be perceived as 'interfering' but I don't see them as a problem (admittedly I don't work for the company!). As a passenger I'd rather have local management and accountability compared with distant shareholders and management far removed from the needs of the town. The ageing fleet is what it is, but it is well-maintained, and probably better suited to the job than the elderly AEC, Dennis and Leyland workhorses that served the town in decades past.

A new MD will have new ideas to better meet the objectives of its shareholder (the council), but the pressures are no different to the private sector in that sense.

Having said all that there are private sector groups out there that I have no doubt would love to get their hands on the company and do a good job of running it, but that's not on the cards.
 
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buslad1988

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28 Dec 2018
Messages
366
The politics is important here; we're witnessing the dying days of the Tories in government nationally after a 12-year period in which they have dogmatically stuck to an anti-public sector agenda. A Labour government in Westminster will have a different approach, clearly more pro-public transport to help meet wider objectives, and will look much more favourably on the likes of Ipswich Buses who've stuck it out during some very difficult times. It's no wonder the likes of Ipswich have been overlooked for electric/hybrid bus investment - a red blob in the middle of a blue county doesn't chime with the government of the day.

The council may be perceived as 'interfering' but I don't see them as a problem (admittedly I don't work for the company!). As a passenger I'd rather have local management and accountability compared with distant shareholders and management far removed from the needs of the town. The ageing fleet is what it is, but it is well-maintained, and probably better suited to the job than the elderly AEC, Dennis and Leyland workhorses that served the town in decades past.

A new MD will have new ideas to better meet the objectives of its shareholder (the council), but the pressures are no different to the private sector in that sense.

Having said all that there are private sector groups out there that I have no doubt would love to get their hands on the company and do a good job of running it, but that's not on the cards.
But here’s the thing… running buses shouldn’t be about politics. Reading Buses, Blackpool Transport, Cardiff Bus etc. all appear (from the outside anyway) to be going from strength to strength in recent years. In the past Ipswich Buses used to be one of the pioneers of the industry; gas bus (217), early to low floor etc. albeit on smaller scale. Unfortunately with the cost of everything these days they simply do not have the capital for modern investment and the diminishing revenue won’t help matters.

In terms of the network North West Ipswich for example has a large Asda/growing retail park but it’s only connections from the nearest major estates (Whitton/Castle Hill) are hourly off peak and 2 hourly saturdays - that’s barely useful for the few concessionary pass holders who use it… but what about the shop staff etc (who’d also probably be pay fare payers) who aren’t catered for at all. I’d imagine the service in question (route 7) is borderline next for withdrawal.

Realistically now a town the size of Ipswich isn’t really big enough for two major operators. More effective use needs to be made of inter-urban routes and their routing within the town. The Felixstowe corridor for example has the Spring Road/Hospital/Warren Heath sections fully covered with no need for duplication from a town service. Ideally they’d be primarily one major operator for the greater Ipswich area (like what First has with its Norwich Network).

A whole other subject is the Park & Ride in the town - which appears to run often with very low numbers. Why can these buses not be utilised into the core network stopping at more stops to save duplication.
 

ashkeba

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13 May 2019
Messages
2,171
It's noticeable on some of the interurban routes how the frequency really does drop down. The X2/X22 goes from every 15 mins until 1830, then about 3 more journeys with the last two having something like a 2.5 gap as it's operated by a single bus on a round trip.
Most of East Anglia, including the most of Norfolk, would love those reduced frequencies instead of a 6.30pm last service. Even a get-home run in the hour or two after cinemas and theatres kick out would help.
 

markymark2000

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The politics is important here; we're witnessing the dying days of the Tories in government nationally after a 12-year period in which they have dogmatically stuck to an anti-public sector agenda. A Labour government in Westminster will have a different approach, clearly more pro-public transport to help meet wider objectives, and will look much more favourably on the likes of Ipswich Buses who've stuck it out during some very difficult times. It's no wonder the likes of Ipswich have been overlooked for electric/hybrid bus investment - a red blob in the middle of a blue county doesn't chime with the government of the day.
I think you need to start looking at other labour councils and their efforts with the municipal buses. Halton Transport, ceased because Labour council didn't want to keep funding it and Labour ran Halton Council refuse to pay up the full transport precept to the Liverpool City Region which would significantly improve public transport in the borough.
Labour ran Warrington Council has Warringtons Own Buses. They have the highest fares in the area. Arriva day tickets are £1.30 cheaper for example. Ran by an ex First Bus manager who used taxpayers money to flood bus corridors in a bid to wipe out the competition as well as dodgy dealings within the bus stations. All Labour ran, wasting taxpayers money in a vendetta against a certain local bus operator.
Labour Ran Cardiff Council makes the operating environment significantly worse for their own bus company and all other bus operators by closing off key roads through the city constantly and having a shed load of parking meaning delays in Cardiff can be upto an hour simply because of the lack of care for buses. That's a labour council who is delaying their own buses.
Wales is ran by Labour and their attempts a public transport are shocking and that includes buses and trains.

Sorry but if you think Labour are the solution for better public transport, you're very much mistaken. Look at the facts, not the ideology.



Note for mods - I know this isn't all relevant to East Anglia, I raise the points as it's moved slightly onto politics and want to prove that whichever party is in power, it doesn't mean things will significantly improve.
 

AaronR

Member
Joined
12 Aug 2012
Messages
53
But here’s the thing… running buses shouldn’t be about politics. Reading Buses, Blackpool Transport, Cardiff Bus etc. all appear (from the outside anyway) to be going from strength to strength in recent years. In the past Ipswich Buses used to be one of the pioneers of the industry; gas bus (217), early to low floor etc. albeit on smaller scale. Unfortunately with the cost of everything these days they simply do not have the capital for modern investment and the diminishing revenue won’t help matters.

In terms of the network North West Ipswich for example has a large Asda/growing retail park but it’s only connections from the nearest major estates (Whitton/Castle Hill) are hourly off peak and 2 hourly saturdays - that’s barely useful for the few concessionary pass holders who use it… but what about the shop staff etc (who’d also probably be pay fare payers) who aren’t catered for at all. I’d imagine the service in question (route 7) is borderline next for withdrawal.

Realistically now a town the size of Ipswich isn’t really big enough for two major operators. More effective use needs to be made of inter-urban routes and their routing within the town. The Felixstowe corridor for example has the Spring Road/Hospital/Warren Heath sections fully covered with no need for duplication from a town service. Ideally they’d be primarily one major operator for the greater Ipswich area (like what First has with its Norwich Network).

A whole other subject is the Park & Ride in the town - which appears to run often with very low numbers. Why can these buses not be utilised into the core network stopping at more stops to save duplication.
I agree with this and the Ipswich network. It hasn’t really changed for years. The town centre is dead but they still concentrate on all routes just heading into the town centre. Why are the big retail parks not served more, like Anglia retail park - the big housing estates closest to it have barely no service to it. Surely it doesn’t take a genius to work out that people will want to travel there locally for work or shopping? Why is there never a cross town link that avoids the town centre?

I saw a post on here a while back about concentrating routes into the major retail parks on the outskirts of town, like copdock, Ransomes and Anglia - Seems a good idea to me. You can get to Copdock from one part of Chantry but not another? Or people who live in Stoke Park/Thorrington park who have no way of getting to Copdock.
 

paulprentice

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22 Aug 2011
Messages
18
I think you need to start looking at other labour councils and their efforts with the municipal buses. Halton Transport, ceased because Labour council didn't want to keep funding it and Labour ran Halton Council refuse to pay up the full transport precept to the Liverpool City Region which would significantly improve public transport in the borough.
Labour ran Warrington Council has Warringtons Own Buses. They have the highest fares in the area. Arriva day tickets are £1.30 cheaper for example. Ran by an ex First Bus manager who used taxpayers money to flood bus corridors in a bid to wipe out the competition as well as dodgy dealings within the bus stations. All Labour ran, wasting taxpayers money in a vendetta against a certain local bus operator.
Labour Ran Cardiff Council makes the operating environment significantly worse for their own bus company and all other bus operators by closing off key roads through the city constantly and having a shed load of parking meaning delays in Cardiff can be upto an hour simply because of the lack of care for buses. That's a labour council who is delaying their own buses.
Wales is ran by Labour and their attempts a public transport are shocking and that includes buses and trains.

Sorry but if you think Labour are the solution for better public transport, you're very much mistaken. Look at the facts, not the ideology.



Note for mods - I know this isn't all relevant to East Anglia, I raise the points as it's moved slightly onto politics and want to prove that whichever party is in power, it doesn't mean things will significantly improve.
Yeah, I'm well aware of difficulties elsewhere - it's obviously very sad what happened in Halton etc - but poor management can be found in the private and the public sectors (and whether the council is Labour, Tory or LibDem run - or whatever). Personally quite relaxed about taxpayers' money being used to subsidise high quality public services, and I include bus services in that given the crucial role they play in everything else in a civilised society - as long as the tax burden falls on those able to pay (broadest shoulders etc) and not those who can't. If municipal bus companies are being mismanaged then you change those in charge. There are plenty of examples of well-run municipals - Nottingham/Reading/Lothian spring to mind. And some shocking private sector operations run by the big groups.

You haven't provided any evidence as to why Ipswich Buses in its current guise isn't the right solution for the town, but in the absence of anything to the contrary, I think it is.

For what it's worth I think the First Eastern Counties operation in Ipswich is vastly improved compared with my experience of it in my childhood/teens - so I'm hardly ideologicial! I'm impressed with their recent fleet investment and attention to marketing and publicity.

There is a place for municipal operation (if the party in power knows what it's doing and is behind the company) as well as excellent private sector operations and, increasingly, franchising. There's room for everyone!

I agree with this and the Ipswich network. It hasn’t really changed for years. The town centre is dead but they still concentrate on all routes just heading into the town centre. Why are the big retail parks not served more, like Anglia retail park - the big housing estates closest to it have barely no service to it. Surely it doesn’t take a genius to work out that people will want to travel there locally for work or shopping? Why is there never a cross town link that avoids the town centre?

I saw a post on here a while back about concentrating routes into the major retail parks on the outskirts of town, like copdock, Ransomes and Anglia - Seems a good idea to me. You can get to Copdock from one part of Chantry but not another? Or people who live in Stoke Park/Thorrington park who have no way of getting to Copdock.
Agree with a lot of this also in case it is suspected I have an ideological bias towards a company that I don't think should ever change. Clearly things can be reviewed post-Covid but major timetable and route changes are brave, and painful (I bear the scars!).
 
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markymark2000

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I agree with this and the Ipswich network. It hasn’t really changed for years. The town centre is dead but they still concentrate on all routes just heading into the town centre. Why are the big retail parks not served more, like Anglia retail park - the big housing estates closest to it have barely no service to it. Surely it doesn’t take a genius to work out that people will want to travel there locally for work or shopping? Why is there never a cross town link that avoids the town centre?

I saw a post on here a while back about concentrating routes into the major retail parks on the outskirts of town, like copdock, Ransomes and Anglia - Seems a good idea to me. You can get to Copdock from one part of Chantry but not another? Or people who live in Stoke Park/Thorrington park who have no way of getting to Copdock.
It's a common bus operator thing. 'All to town' but no one goes to town then they all sit there scratching their heads about why no one is using the buses. Meanwhile, huge shopping outlets are opening on the edge of town without any buses, with minimal buses or with extremely poor bus access (meaning people walk much further than they should do to get to shops). Bus access can of course being a council issue where the council isn't demanding the right things during planning applications.

Yeah, I'm well aware of difficulties elsewhere - it's obviously very sad what happened in Halton etc - but poor management can be found in the private and the public sectors (and whether the council is Labour, Tory or LibDem run - or whatever).
There's good and bad on both sides. I bring up Labours failures since you have clearly stated that if Labour were in power in central government, things would be different. I am merely pointing out in other areas, Labour are generally worse than other parties at a local level and I fail to see why that would be significantly different if they were in national goverment (especially when you consider they are in power in Wales and have been for as long as anyone can remember and yet now they are planning franchising but openly admit 'They don't know where they are going to find the money from'. Combine that with removal of tolls on the M4 making it cheaper to drive cars. Consequently leading to the downfall of a bus route as well. Oh, I could go on in Wales.

If municipal bus companies are being mismanaged then you change those in charge. There are plenty of examples of well-run municipals - Nottingham/Reading/Lothian spring to mind. And some shocking private sector operations run by the big groups.
Have you seen our politics? In some areas, you could go to the zoo, pick up a monkey and put them up for election and they would still be the clear winner. It's extremely difficult to get everyone to unite and oust someone from power. The councillor in charge of Warringtons Own Buses, doesn't even have the buses running through her ward. There was no way of voting in a councillor to be on the board of directors for the bus company. Ben Wakerley was never voted in for MD of the bus company. No one voted to waste taxpayers money competing and then setting up a new route to compete with Arriva (who ran 4 buses per hour). Most of this isn't voted for. People don't vote to get a better set of people in place locally. They vote based off Westminster goings on and colours. You could promise residents the world but if you're not representing a party of the right colour, you won't get a vote.


There is a place for municipal operation (if the party in power knows what it's doing and is behind the company) as well as excellent private sector operations and, increasingly, franchising. There's room for everyone!
This is exactly the issue and sadly which a number of municipals, they seem to either be really poor for passengers (The amount of people in Warrington who would rather a private company take over is actually quite interesting) or the council do not support them (not giving them subsidy, poor infrastructure both roadside and bus priority, cheap car parking in the centres etc etc). Either one doesn't do anything good for passengers.




The demographic isn't there and the council area is not big enough for Ipswich Buses to have as much of an impact as Reading, Lothian and Nottingham. Ipswich has even a smaller population than Blackpool with lower population density, more spread out town centre and general retail. A lot of the bus demand is more interurban than local. The sort of network that would suit Ipswich is a mix of interurban and local routes. Interurban routes serving a few estates before heading out of town fast to the next town. Sadly being a local municipal, that doesn't work as it would mean going too far out of the area and competing with First (though even if First didn't exist, it would mean going too far out of the area).

You can see how much Ipswich struggles with the fact they are going for silly contracts and with the coach to do other stuff, they are clearly using it to subsidise the existing network despite the fact that they shouldn't be going for other contracts, especially not coach stuff, because it just takes business away from other areas. Small family owned businesses losing money so the council can make a few bob to prop up a failing bus network because they haven't the will to change the network to make it better.
 

paulprentice

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22 Aug 2011
Messages
18
It's a common bus operator thing. 'All to town' but no one goes to town then they all sit there scratching their heads about why no one is using the buses. Meanwhile, huge shopping outlets are opening on the edge of town without any buses, with minimal buses or with extremely poor bus access (meaning people walk much further than they should do to get to shops). Bus access can of course being a council issue where the council isn't demanding the right things during planning applications.


There's good and bad on both sides. I bring up Labours failures since you have clearly stated that if Labour were in power in central government, things would be different. I am merely pointing out in other areas, Labour are generally worse than other parties at a local level and I fail to see why that would be significantly different if they were in national goverment (especially when you consider they are in power in Wales and have been for as long as anyone can remember and yet now they are planning franchising but openly admit 'They don't know where they are going to find the money from'. Combine that with removal of tolls on the M4 making it cheaper to drive cars. Consequently leading to the downfall of a bus route as well. Oh, I could go on in Wales.


Have you seen our politics? In some areas, you could go to the zoo, pick up a monkey and put them up for election and they would still be the clear winner. It's extremely difficult to get everyone to unite and oust someone from power. The councillor in charge of Warringtons Own Buses, doesn't even have the buses running through her ward. There was no way of voting in a councillor to be on the board of directors for the bus company. Ben Wakerley was never voted in for MD of the bus company. No one voted to waste taxpayers money competing and then setting up a new route to compete with Arriva (who ran 4 buses per hour). Most of this isn't voted for. People don't vote to get a better set of people in place locally. They vote based off Westminster goings on and colours. You could promise residents the world but if you're not representing a party of the right colour, you won't get a vote.



This is exactly the issue and sadly which a number of municipals, they seem to either be really poor for passengers (The amount of people in Warrington who would rather a private company take over is actually quite interesting) or the council do not support them (not giving them subsidy, poor infrastructure both roadside and bus priority, cheap car parking in the centres etc etc). Either one doesn't do anything good for passengers.




The demographic isn't there and the council area is not big enough for Ipswich Buses to have as much of an impact as Reading, Lothian and Nottingham. Ipswich has even a smaller population than Blackpool with lower population density, more spread out town centre and general retail. A lot of the bus demand is more interurban than local. The sort of network that would suit Ipswich is a mix of interurban and local routes. Interurban routes serving a few estates before heading out of town fast to the next town. Sadly being a local municipal, that doesn't work as it would mean going too far out of the area and competing with First (though even if First didn't exist, it would mean going too far out of the area).

You can see how much Ipswich struggles with the fact they are going for silly contracts and with the coach to do other stuff, they are clearly using it to subsidise the existing network despite the fact that they shouldn't be going for other contracts, especially not coach stuff, because it just takes business away from other areas. Small family owned businesses losing money so the council can make a few bob to prop up a failing bus network because they haven't the will to change the network to make it better.
This is an interesting debate, and Ipswich itself is a microcosm of other places in many respects given it has two long-established companies, one in public hands, the other in private.

I'm a close observer of our politics and in fact I'm a Labour candidate for the May 2023 elections in Canterbury where Stagecoach rules the roost (and does a relatively good job in difficult circumstances, to be fair, though it's clear that their objectives are more profit driven as you would expect, unlike an old-fashioned municipal that has less pressure from an owning group). I visit Ipswich regularly to see family.

You probably have to put some of the wider problems with our politics (parties just getting a vote regardless etc) to one side but I'd argue that transport is 'on the ballot' though many voters struggle understandably to work out whether it's the 'district' or the 'county' council that is responsible. in East Kent, major decisions about transport generally are made in Maidstone, quite some distance, and at least the local Stagecoach company is headquartered in the city. If a local council candidate wants to make buses an issue, good for them - I want to be one of those candidates!

You raise a point about municipals not being very good or not supported but is that not in part due to council budgets being slashed over the last 12 years thanks to austerity? Isn't that the reason why we don't have bus priority, proper infrastructure, as budgets are diverted to things like social care which councils have a legal duty to support? It wasn't always the case; Park and Ride investment, Superoute 66/88 and other smaller schemes in the last 25-30 years are all in my lifetime and haven't really had the local authority support or investment they could and should have had to continuously improve them.

The disappearance of small family-owned companies which filled many important gaps is sad, and there aren't many left in Suffolk or in Kent where I now reside, but that trend has been going on for decades and I don't think the likes of Ipswich Buses, with their small private hire operation, can be particularly attributed to undermining those.

Ipswich may struggle with the demographic and the wider, challenging geography of sparsely-populated rural Suffolk, though none of the problems are insurmountable and nor are they unique to Ipswich.
 

ScotGG

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Most of East Anglia, including the most of Norfolk, would love those reduced frequencies instead of a 6.30pm last service. Even a get-home run in the hour or two after cinemas and theatres kick out would help.
Of course they would but if anywhere is going to make it work Norwich is probably the best candidate.

What exactly is planned using Bus Back Better funding? Can we expect better frequencies?
 

buslad1988

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F Great Eastern

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Suffolk County Council are woeful in terms of their support of public transport to be honest, there is a lot more that they could do, but instead over the past few years, even pre-covid they wanted to waste money on things like Katch, which was never going to work out whilst making cuts to many rural bus services which were already poorly funded.
 

Kartenga

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Suffolk County Council are woeful in terms of their support of public transport to be honest, there is a lot more that they could do, but instead over the past few years, even pre-covid they wanted to waste money on things like Katch, which was never going to work out whilst making cuts to many rural bus services which were already poorly funded.
This is why they were refused any money from the better bus scheme as all the council wanted to do is merge both Ipswich bus stations into one. You are correct about the fare not changing for Beestons 91 service. This being from Boxford, Hadleigh, Hintlesham.
 

dk1

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I’m actually about to catch the 15/15A in from Brundall today due to the rail strike. No evening buses here but then we have two stations so usually it makes little or no difference.
 

F Great Eastern

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Quick Beestons update.
Changes kick in from Monday, basically changes are

Monday to Friday
- 07:10 from Hadleigh to Ipswich advanced to 07:05 due to punctuality reasons.
- 08:55 from Hadleigh to Ipswich advanced to 08:40
- 10:55 and 12:55 from Hadleigh to Ipswich cancelled
- 10:15, 12:15 and 14:15 from Ipswich to Hadleigh cancelled.
- Most Sudbury departures apart from those serving Thomas Gainsborough School to be pushed back 5 mins.

Saturday
- 06:50 service from Hadleigh to Sudbury cancelled
- 07:30 service from Sudbury to Ipswich cancelled
- 08:10 new service from Hadleigh to Ipswich to replace the 07:30 through service from Sudbury

10 Journey Tickets
The reason for the stopping selling of 10 journey tickets is apparently because of the fact there is a substantial gap between them taking payments for these tickets on cards and being paid for the journeys by the card processors and thus they chose to discontinue them. However of course, the fact that Beestons are having to do this, obviously makes you wonder if things are so tight that they cannot wait for the money a few weeks, what does this say about the future of the operation?

Fleet
The two remaining ex NCT deckers continue to hang around and both have been seen in service this week. However it is noticeable that over the past couple of weeks they have been seen less than before. There's been a fair few days when not one of them has been out and no days when both have been out. A fair few days of the week have seen the three decker duties be YN55NDY/YN55NJZ/MX06LDN which was the usual term time allocation until last July.
 
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Snow1964

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Norfolk is getting 55 electric buses as part of latest zebra funding
People in Yorkshire, Norfolk, Portsmouth and Hampshire will enjoy greener, cleaner journeys as an extra 117 buses are rolled out thanks to £25.3 million from government.

The latest investment announced today (2 March 2023) will support British manufacturing around the country. The new buses will be manufactured in Northern Ireland by Wrightbus and operated by FirstBus, supporting hundreds of new high-skilled jobs to encourage growth and help level up the economy.

The £25.3 million will pave the way for the government’s ambitious rollout of zero emission buses (ZEBs) and brings total government funding to almost £300 million for up to 1,395 zero emission buses in England. With this new additional funding, it takes the vision of a net zero transport network one step closer to reality.

Thanks to the new investment the councils are now able to purchase more zero emission buses:

  • Norfolk County Council will receive an extra £11.5 million to deliver 55 additional ZEBs
  • Portsmouth City Council and Hampshire County Council will receive an extra £6.2 million to deliver 28 additional ZEBs
  • West Yorkshire Combined Authority will receive an extra £5.7 million to deliver 25 additional ZEBs
  • City of York Council will receive an extra £1.9 million to deliver 9 additional ZEBs
 
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F Great Eastern

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Have the ex Nottingham Omnidekka's finally left Beestons now?

BUS 91C hasn't tracked since 22nd March and BUS 91D hasn't been out this week and the previous week it was only out for the mid morning extras.

YN55NDY/MX06LDN/YN55NJZ have been the mainstays on the 91
 

Kartenga

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Have the ex Nottingham Omnidekka's finally left Beestons now?

BUS 91C hasn't tracked since 22nd March and BUS 91D hasn't been out this week and the previous week it was only out for the mid morning extras.

YN55NDY/MX06LDN/YN55NJZ have been the mainstays on the 91
Both seen in the yard yesterday. I have seen both out in the last two weeks in Hadleigh.
 

Flange Squeal

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Talking of Beestons, I note that the registration ‘BUS 91E’ will be in the next DVLA auction. I wonder if this will join its similar registrations at Beestons or not…


Lot 315​

Starting price: 300
Bidding ends on Tuesday, 16 May 2023 12:00 PM
End times may slide - see Bidding InstructionsInstructions for details
View full lot list
Bidding Starts at: Wednesday, 10 May 2023 10:00 AM
BUS 91E


Registration date restrictions
Your vehicle must be registered as new on or after 01 January 1967 to display this plate. Check your V5C registration certificate if you are unsure.
Legal warning
It is an offence to alter, re-arrange or misrepresent a registration.
There is a maximum fine of 1000, and the registration can be withdrawn without compensation.
 

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