Stafford to Liverpool - where have all the trains gone ?

[33021]

Stafford to Liverpool - well used route by many for work, shopping and sports events.
Formerly 3tph 2 fast - (1 Avanti, 1 LMR) 1 slow LMR. Service now reduced to 1 LMR slow per hour no regular Avanti.

Not joined up lost Avanti stops before fast LMR reintroduced - (still missing from Covid).

Last few trips full and standing and with all the stops journey no longer time competitive with car.

Seems like an attempt to remove demand.

Incredible 2 thriving major cities Birmingham and Liverpool are now reduced to a single hourly stopping service.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

What are journey opportunities from Stafford to Liverpool like by changing intermediately at Crewe?

 

[XCTurbostar]

I believe the Liverpool and Manchester Avanti’s were swapped in the Dec 2022 TT to allow Nuneaton to be regularly stopped at. MCR Warrior is right though, the capacity still exists from Crewe.

 

[Djgr]

I am not sure that there is the demand for two trains an hour from Liverpool to Stafford.

But you are right to highlight the fact that Liverpool, as a city rammed with visitors day in day out, is underserved in pretty much every direction.

 

[Parjon]

I expect the 2nd will return before too much longer. The Birmingham-Liverpool shows no sign of abating in patronage despite only running one train an hour. All 8 cars are regularly full, just as the OP experienced.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I believe the Liverpool and Manchester Avanti’s were swapped in the Dec 2022 TT to allow Nuneaton to be regularly stopped at. MCR Warrior is right though, the capacity still exists from Crewe.

The Chester/North Wales Avantis also now call at Stafford rather than Milton Keynes, and will soon be 805s (some double sets).
The Scotland-Birmingham-Euston service now also stops at Stafford.
So connectivity from Stafford in all the other directions except Liverpool has improved.
Stafford may regain an Avanti Liverpool service when/if the second hourly service starts.

 

[Parjon]

It won't. The second Avanti tph will go via Trent valley, while the fastest can't cope with the demand. Stafford is being transferred to Manchester service instead

 

[The Planner]

It won't. The second Avanti tph will go via Trent valley, while the fastest can't cope with the demand. Stafford is being transferred to Manchester service instead

Stafford is already in the Manchester via Crewe service?

 

[Parjon]

Stafford is already in the Manchester via Crewe service?

Then the transfer has already occurred

 

[The Planner]

Then the transfer has already occurred

Happened 6 months ago!

 

[Starmill]

The timetable structure as bid by the West Midlands "grand railway collaboration" operators still allows for the future reintroduction of the second LNR Birmingham New Street - Shrewsbury or Liverpool Lime Street services via Sandwell & Dudley, depending on the availability of funding for the units more importantly crew, and the changes in demand. Likely this will continue to be the case in the future but of course not certain. The second Shrewsbury still runs in a few hours of the day, but the second Liverpool does not.

 

[33021]

What are journey opportunities from Stafford to Liverpool like by changing intermediately at Crewe?

Liverpool to Stafford no options 2 departures to Crewe almost together

 

[Parjon]

There's no funding or stock issues involved. It's purely covid recovery and provision has been made. Arguably the recovery point has already been reached, however there have been advantages to hourly eight car working so there is a trade off to consider.

 

[sprinterguy]

I expect the 2nd will return before too much longer. The Birmingham-Liverpool shows no sign of abating in patronage despite only running one train an hour. All 8 cars are regularly full, just as the OP experienced.

The rear couple of vehicles are wonderfully quiet on the services I typically use between Birmingham and Stafford (The 15:34 or 16:34 departures, usually). Most passengers seem to congregate in the front four carriages, while I can almost have a carriage to myself at the rear of the train.

 

[JW4]

It is ironic that Stafford still have this sign up despite only 1 direct service to Liverpool and it being a semi-fast/slow LNR for some 6 and a half months now

photo from JenontheMove’s twitter

The timetable structure as bid by the West Midlands "grand railway collaboration" operators still allows for the future reintroduction of the second LNR Birmingham New Street - Shrewsbury or Liverpool Lime Street services via Sandwell & Dudley, depending on the availability of funding for the units more importantly crew, and the changes in demand. Likely this will continue to be the case in the future but of course not certain. The second Shrewsbury still runs in a few hours of the day, but the second Liverpool does not.

Sandwell & Dudley instead of Smethwick GB? They just moved the Shrewsbury stops from S&D to SGB in December 2022.
Also the second Liverpool will call at Dudley Port alongside the Metro extension when its introduced

It won't. The second Avanti tph will go via Trent valley, while the fastest can't cope with the demand. Stafford is being transferred to Manchester service instead

Yeah Tamworth and Lichfield.

 

[38Cto15E]

I used to have a ride out from Stafford to Lime Street and back in First Class on the Pendo's.
At one time you could get really cheap fares and of course food and drink, although you had to be a quick eater on the way back as they didn't take orders until leaving Crewe.

 

[childwallblues]

There's no funding or stock issues involved. It's purely covid recovery and provision has been made. Arguably the recovery point has already been reached, however there have been advantages to hourly eight car working so there is a trade off to consider.

Liverpool to Stafford/Birmingham New Street pre COVID was a 4 car 350 every 30 minutes. Now it is hourly with 8 carriages. All they have done is save on 4 crews. And they took off the wrong train as the current departure from Liverpool misses the connections at Crewe to South Wales and Derby.
Very poor service now.

 

[The exile]

Liverpool to Stafford/Birmingham New Street pre COVID was a 4 car 350 every 30 minutes. Now it is hourly with 8 carriages. All they have done is save on 4 crews.

Whatever the rights or wrongs, that’s not an insignificant saving…

 

[33021]

Savings yes, but slow journey meaning many may move away from rail and almost no revenue protection (ticket checked once in last 8 journeys) as all the short platforms en route you could also ask at what cost …

 

[frodshamfella]

Liverpool to Stafford/Birmingham New Street pre COVID was a 4 car 350 every 30 minutes. Now it is hourly with 8 carriages. All they have done is save on 4 crews. And they took off the wrong train as the current departure from Liverpool misses the connections at Crewe to South Wales and Derby.
Very poor service now.

That's true, you also had a faster service which missed stops between Crewe and Runcorn. Now its just one stopper, and if thats cancelled , it's an hour wait. Between two large popular cities its a bit rubbish really. Then again Liverpool - London is still hourly.

 

[MikeWM]

And they took off the wrong train as the current departure from Liverpool misses the connections at Crewe to South Wales and Derby.

As I've moaned about before, it also now misses the connections at Birmingham both to and from the Cambridge/Stansted service, as that leaves/arrives Birmingham at almost the same time the Liverpool arrives/leaves - due to this historically being a through service. The 'other half-hour' Birmingham-Liverpool offered approx 30 minute connections in both directions, which was ideal.

(Those who think splitting the Liverpool-Norwich service at Nottingham would always be timetabled for a 'simple' and 'well-timetabled' change at Nottingham, take note).

 

[JBuchananGB]

This piqued my interest as my Stafford based daughter is visiting next week, arriving Monday returning on Tuesday with break of journey in Liverpool. She has an Anytime Return ticket, Stafford to Southport. Coming up she will change at Liverpool South Parkway, for MerseyRail. Returning she will travel to Liverpool Central, then resume her journey later in the day from Lime Street. I'm sure she will have checked the train timetables, but we both definitely had residual memory that Avanti trains from Liverpool called at Stafford!

 

[frodshamfella]

This piqued my interest as my Stafford based daughter is visiting next week, arriving Monday returning on Tuesday with break of journey in Liverpool. She has an Anytime Return ticket, Stafford to Southport. Coming up she will change at Liverpool South Parkway, for MerseyRail. Returning she will travel to Liverpool Central, then resume her journey later in the day from Lime Street. I'm sure she will have checked the train timetables, but we both definitely had residual memory that Avanti trains from Liverpool called at Stafford!

Yes it did, and if you needed to change, its a better station to do this than Crewe.