30% of TPE services cancelled Thursday 8 June

[EZJ]

They still have to give 6 months notice so they have not just suddenly left

No they don't anyone could exercise their right to leave on 28th May just by informing HR you didn't want to TUPE over to the OLR.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

They still have to give 6 months notice so they have not just suddenly left

No they don’t and yes they have just suddenly left.

You are under no obligation to accept TUPE however if you reject the TUPE you will cease to be employed when the business you are working for ceases to exist. That is how people can leave with very little notice period.

 

[SteveM70]

Is there anything new today? Or is this just the longstanding industrial relations issue which have been debated extensively before.

Can anyone advise of actual trains departing from York towards Manchester for this afternoon please? They are all showing as cancelled, but it can't be the case that there are no trains whatsoever; can anyone advise if I should be taking Northern on a TPE Only ticket, or should I be going via Sheffield, or something else?

There doesn't seem to be any information regarding what to do!

It looks like the 15:20, 16:05 and 16:20 aren't (yet) cancelled

The forming service for the 15:20 (1P69 09:08 from Manchester Airport) is running and has just left Stalyvegas so you might be in luck

 

[800001]

No they don’t and yes they have just suddenly left.

You are under no obligation to accept TUPE however if you reject the TUPE you will cease to be employed when the business you are working for ceases to exist. That is how people can leave with very little notice period.

That I didn’t know, so apologies for getting it wrong!

 

[dosxuk]

Was there really any point removing the First Group franchise and passing TPE to the OLR because of performance issues?

A few days ago it was announced that there was not likely to be an quick improvement in service and it is clear from this post things appear to be not staying the same but actually getting worse.

Presumably most of the staff have remained the same and thus the same staff who appear reluctant to work are carrying on just as before?

This is what many people were pointing out before the change - but there were numerous louder voices just wanting to give First a kicking who didn't care if things would get worse as long as things were changed.

 

[CAF397]

Even the DfT were advising Mark Harper not to terminate the contract. DOHL were caught on the hoof and we're not ready to mobilise to bring in TPE

 

[daodao]

should I be going via Sheffield

Three out of four TPE services from Sheffield to Manchester/Liverpool over the evening peak period (at 1611/1711/1911) are showing as cancelled "because of a short-notice change to the timetable".

I was looking at the the National Rail Enquiries site to check trains at this time from Sheffield on 9/6/23 as I shall be going to a meeting in Sheffield city centre tomorrow, so looked at the situation today out of interest. Given the situation today, I shall travel to Sheffield by car instead and use the tram from a "park-and-ride" facility.

Journey Planner - Trains Times and Fares - National Rail Enquiries

The gateway to Britain's National Rail network. A portal into UK rail travel including train company information and promotions; train times; fares enquiries; ticket purchase and train running information.

ojp.nationalrail.co.uk

 

[The Conductor]

From https://twitter.com/TrainBeacon/status/1666673424884719619?t=2SSutU8KpvCwsH825lOiPw&s=19

That seems an extraordinary figure. Anyone know what's up?

Just heard from my wife, who is on an a TPE service at Edale, that Chinley SB is on fire! Possibility according to guard of line being closed being closed for rest of day. EMR service behind hers already terminated at Sheffield and RTT is already litteered with cancellations. Will no doubt explain part of the figure as this will take a lot of sorting out.

 

[Mojo]

The thread title says 30% of trains cancelled Thurs 8th June which is today. Does this figure relate to cancellations known in advance (ie. the figure could actually be higher due to incidents that occur throughout the day), or is it actually the percentage for yesterday?

 

[SteveM70]

The thread title says 30% of trains cancelled Thurs 8th June which is today. Does this figure relate to cancellations known in advance (ie. the figure could actually be higher due to incidents that occur throughout the day), or is it actually the percentage for yesterday?

The tweet was just after 6am today, and refers to today's trains, so I assume its all the services that were already cancelled at that time, so yes it'll potentially get worse

Yes, you can't be compelled to transfer under TUPE. There are three other things that then come into play:

- the employee (almost always) can't claim for redundancy
- the employee (almost always) has no right to an unfair dismissal claim
- the employer can't insist the employee works a notice period beyond the date of the transfer

 

[yorkie]

It gets worse!

TransPennine Express JourneyCheck - Train times and live real time delay/cancellation/disruption information.

TransPennine Express JourneyCheck provides real time, up-to-date train times and train disruption information keeping you informed about any delays or cancellations on the network and helping you know what to do when your journey is affected. Train Cancellations, Delays, Alterations and...

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1 Line Update
Cancellations to services between Stockport and Sheffield

Due to a fire next to the track between Stockport and Sheffield all lines are blocked.
Impact
Train services running through these stations may be cancelled or delayed. Disruption is expected until 12:15 08/06.

Customer Advice
Can customers please be advised that some services may be delayed or cancelled due to a fire at the side of the track.

Customers are advised that your tickets will be accepted on Northern and CrossCountry services towards Leeds where onward connections towards Manchester Stations can be made.

Further Information
We are sorry for any inconvenience this may have caused to your journey today.
If your journey has been delayed, you may be entitled to some compensation.
Please check www.tpexpress.co.uk/help/delay-repay-compensation for further information.
For assistance with your journey, you can also follow us on Twitter @TPEassist or you can message us on WhatsApp at 07812 223 336 .

 

[father_jack]

It gets worse!

TransPennine Express JourneyCheck - Train times and live real time delay/cancellation/disruption information.

TransPennine Express JourneyCheck provides real time, up-to-date train times and train disruption information keeping you informed about any delays or cancellations on the network and helping you know what to do when your journey is affected. Train Cancellations, Delays, Alterations and...

www.journeycheck.com

It's New Mills South signal box that actually has a fire at the rear of the box itself.

 

[43066]

It gets worse!

TransPennine Express JourneyCheck - Train times and live real time delay/cancellation/disruption information.

TransPennine Express JourneyCheck provides real time, up-to-date train times and train disruption information keeping you informed about any delays or cancellations on the network and helping you know what to do when your journey is affected. Train Cancellations, Delays, Alterations and...

www.journeycheck.com

At least there is now official ticket acceptance in place, so nobody should have any issues using alternative services.

 

[LYuen]

Since there is no short term fix to the staff issue (the lack of, not the dispute), for how long until a practical emergency timetable (correlate with the actual non-overtime staff hours) should be in place? And for the core services, for example between Liverpool Manchester Leeds and York, should some services be re-assigned to other ToCs to cover the lost capacity due to the everyday cancellations?

 

[RHolmes]

At least there is now official ticket acceptance in place, so nobody should have any issues using alternative services.

There’s official ticket acceptance with Northern anyway, so long as there’s no alternate TPE train within 59 minutes.

It’s just not publically advertised to prevent Northern services from being overcrowded with what little capacity some routes have.

Only change is the addition of XC.

 

[The Conductor]

It's New Mills South signal box that actually has a fire at the rear of the box itself.

0824 Cleethrorpes -Liverpool apparently terminated at Chinley East Junction and sent bcak to Sheffield. TPEs website says disruption until at least 1215 but reversing a train suggests that's very ambitious.

 

[Krokodil]

Was there really any point removing the First Group franchise and passing TPE to the OLR because of performance issues?

The governing party had just received a drubbing at the local elections. The minister was therefore desperate to look like he was doing something about the poor performance of services that he is ultimately responsible for. "Something must be done; this is something, therefore we must do it". So he ignored the advice from the professionals and blocked the renewal at the 11th hour.

Yes, you can't be compelled to transfer under TUPE. There are three other things that then come into play:

- the employee (almost always) can't claim for redundancy
- the employee (almost always) has no right to an unfair dismissal claim
- the employer can't insist the employee works a notice period beyond the date of the transfer

So employees who have another job lined up (with an employer willing to take them earlier than planned) can simply walk out.

 

[SteveM70]

So employees who have another job lined up (with an employer willing to take them earlier than planned) can simply walk out

They can leave on the date of transfer, yes. If they walked off the job sooner than that then technically they'd be in breach of contract, but whether the outgoing employer would be pursue them is debatable

 

[ainsworth74]

So employees who have another job lined up (with an employer willing to take them earlier than planned) can simply walk out.

Absolutely. The impression I had was that there were a number of TPE drivers with jobs lined up at other TOCs/FOCs but were just working their notice. They were then handed an opportunity to leave months earlier than they would otherwise have been able to and, understandably, jumped at it.

 

[The Conductor]

Train guaurd reporting 'structural damage to SB and could be a long time before line reopens'.

..but just opened! 1211 to Liverpool ex Sheffield running.

My wife got as far as Chinley East Jun, did the rare crossover (!), sent back to Sheffield, and is now on the 1211 back to MCR. A fast-changing scene, or what is known as 'one hand not knowing what...'

 

[Watershed]

There’s official ticket acceptance with Northern anyway, so long as there’s no alternate TPE train within 59 minutes.

It’s just not publically advertised to prevent Northern services from being overcrowded with what little capacity some routes have.

Only change is the addition of XC.

That's a bad enough attitude to customer service on a normal day of TPE disruption.

On a day like today, where there are no TPE services whatsoever from York to Leeds for nearly 6 hours (09:40 to 15:20), that's inexcusable.

I can't see any indication of either ticket acceptance on TPE JourneyCheck, or their website. They don't even have a banner or anything on the homepage warning people.

 

[Willie Bee]

So am I right in assuming nobody with a brain would be booking a TPE for as far away as November ?

Liverpool Lime Street to Newcastle, Thursday 2nd November at 16:24 £27.90 for 2 adults, with a railcard

 

[ainsworth74]

So am I right in assuming nobody with a brain would be booking a TPE for as far away as November ?

Liverpool Lime Street to Newcastle, Thursday 2nd November at 16:24 £27.90 for 2 adults, with a railcard

Impossible to say. It's certainly possible that a day like today could occur on TPE in November. But equally things could run fairly smoothly. As was suggested previously the best course of action is to ensure that you allow time for disruption so don't arrange anything time sensitive within a few hours of the expected arrival time.

 

[Goldfish62]

Yes, you can't be compelled to transfer under TUPE. There are three other things that then come into play:

- the employee (almost always) can't claim for redundancy
- the employee (almost always) has no right to an unfair dismissal claim
- the employer can't insist the employee works a notice period beyond the date of the transfer

I assume all these people who refused to TUPE already had other jobs lined up anyway and the situation just enables them to start earlier than they would have done. Otherwise they've rendered themselves unemployed with no redundancy payment.

 

[dunc695]

That's a bad enough attitude to customer service on a normal day of TPE disruption.

On a day like today, where there are no TPE services whatsoever from York to Leeds for nearly 6 hours (09:40 to 15:20), that's inexcusable.

I can't see any indication of either ticket acceptance on TPE JourneyCheck, or their website. They don't even have a banner or anything on the homepage warning people.

Looks like the only way of getting to Manchester over the pennines this afternoon is with Northern via the Calder Valley from Leeds.

I'm sure the Leeds - Chester will be picking up extra custom.

 

[Andy Pacer]

I was very surprised to find a TPE actually running onto Glasgow this morning. Needless to say it was almost empty, clearly people are giving up.

 

[michael74]

I was reading an article recently (Rail Advent or something like that) that said everyone in the whole wide world that had an opinion or were involved recommended that FG were awarded a 6 month extension as things were actually starting to get better and when the idiot unilaterally stripped FG of the franchise their were Amazonian Tribesmen who had never seen a train let alone traveled on one, knew it would be a stupid idea and this would just make things worse... Gotta love the Tories*...... (*No don't, really do not)

 

[Mcrdvr]

They still have to give 6 months notice so they have not just suddenly left

Incorrect , we got a letter saying that we could leave without notice before the transfer over to OLR

 

[Parjon]

Unless both sides can come together to put an end to this situation, it would be less painful in the long term to just terminate all TPE services, lay off the staff, mothball the fleet and close the company down.

Priority routes with no alternatives to bus substitutions.

Allocate a year to establishing a completely new, built from the ground up operation with new routes, timetables and staff.

In the absence of both sides playing their part in delivering a proper service, what other option is there.

 

[EZJ]

Unless both sides can come together to put an end to this situation, it would be less painful in the long term to just terminate all TPE services, lay off the staff, mothball the fleet and close the company down.

Priority routes with no alternatives to bus substitutions.

Allocate a year to establishing a completely new, built from the ground up operation with new routes, timetables and staff.

In the absence of both sides playing their part in delivering a proper service, what other option is there.

Well you've excelled yourself this time in spouting your best nonsense yet. Bravo Sir.